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  #5601  
Old 01-02-2014
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Found this sketch on wild oats...
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  #5602  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

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Originally Posted by capt vimes View Post
Found this sketch on wild oats...
I'd actually be quite interested to hear Mark Richards discuss whether or not DSS contributed anything to their success this year. It was a rather bold move to add that technology and I'm sure a lot of people are equally curious about its efficacy. From what I've read and seen, the DSS technology should be quite effective on a boat as big as Wild Oats XI, particulary given its comparative "narrow" beam (relative to, say, Perpetual Loyal, the VO70's and Beau Geste). Will be keeping my eyes open for any reports (no doubt on the DSS web site).
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  #5603  
Old 01-02-2014
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Wild Oats and DSS

Yes, people keep laughing about that Swiss army knife stuff ...and they keep winning races

Talking about the newest addition on that knife, the DSS system, it is the first time that the system had helped to won a race.



Of course he may had have a small role and none in what regards the conditions that allow Wild Oats to win (very light winds) but certainly took a big role on the end of the race, with strong winds keeping the speed of the boat close to the one of Loyal, whose hull design is much better suited for stronger winds, preventing any significant recovery.

That system, that is basically a small airplane wing that can be deployed on one side or another of the hull (the one that is heeled) works like the one in the airplane creating lift: On an airplane can take it airborne, on a boat opposes heel creating RM. Contrary to a keel that provides more lift at bigger heel angles, system generated RM has nothing to do with heel but only with speed (like an airplane wing): More speed, more lift.

And what kind of lift are we talking about? Well, at speed it can produce eight to ten tonnes of vertical lift.

That is huge and the advantages over the drag produced seem to be conclusive, helping a narrow and less powerful boat like Wild Oats to diminish their disadvantage over a much more powerful boat like Loyal (bigger beam) on the conditions were that extra power can be a decisive advantage.

Wild Oats went at some time of this race at 35K and the boat skipper could not be more convinced:

" “The trial results were quite remarkable. There was an impressive increase in speed,” said Wild Oats XI skipper Mark Richards prior to the Boxing Day start. Following the race he enthused how they hit 35 knots boat speed at one stage. “The new foils were phenomenal,' he said. “They gave us a lot more control in the extreme conditions, and the hard running we did today.”

Chris Links, one of Wild Oats XI’s helmsmen, said of the DSS foil before the race: “It gives us some more stability in those tighter angles and in the heavy downwind it lifts the bow 300mm. In those steep little seas it helps get us on to the waves and surf for longer. We have seen it really work a couple of times, which has really blown us away when it clicks in.”

Arriving in Hobart, Wild Oats XI's wizened tactician Iain Murray attributed a 5% gain in Wild Oats XI’s speed to the DSS foil, which had been put to good work as the wind built to more than 30 knots coming down the east coast of Tasmania and continued to build as they hardened up to cross the aptly named Storm Bay."


I have said here before that from all innovations that have appeared recently in what regards sailing the DSS seemed to me the more promising. I have a big respect for its creator Hugh Welbourn and I believe that from now one we will see a lot of big yachts using this system that, according with its creator, on a boat created from the beginning to use it, it will be much more effective.

Maybe after all the Hugh Welbourn designed Infiniti 100R will see the light of day. I sure would like that:

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Last edited by PCP; 01-02-2014 at 08:15 AM.
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  #5604  
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Re: Wild Oats and DSS

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Yes, people keep laughing about that Swiss army knife stuff ...and they keep winning races

Talking about the newest addition on that knife, the DSS system, it is the first time that the system had helped to won a race.



Of course he may had have a small role and none in what regards the conditions that allow Wild Oats to win (very light winds) but certainly took a big role on the end of the race, with strong winds keeping the speed of the boat close to the one of Loyal, whose hull design is much better suited for stronger winds, preventing any significant recovery.

That system, that is basically a small airplane wing that can be deployed on one side or another of the hull (the one that is heeled) works like the one in the airplane creating lift: On an airplane can take it airborne, on a boat opposes heel creating RM. Contrary to a keel that provides more lift at bigger heel angles, system generated RM has nothing to do with heel but only with speed (like an airplane wing): More speed, more lift.

And what kind of lift are we talking about? Well, at speed it can produce eight to ten tonnes of vertical lift.

That is huge and the advantages over the drag produced seem to be conclusive, helping a narrow and less powerful boat like Wild Oats to diminish their disadvantage over a much more powerful boat like Loyal (bigger beam) on the conditions were that extra power can be a decisive advantage.

Wild Oats went at some time of this race at 35K and the boat skipper could not be more convinced:

" “The trial results were quite remarkable. There was an impressive increase in speed,” said Wild Oats XI skipper Mark Richards prior to the Boxing Day start. Following the race he enthused how they hit 35 knots boat speed at one stage. “The new foils were phenomenal,' he said. “They gave us a lot more control in the extreme conditions, and the hard running we did today.”

Chris Links, one of Wild Oats XI’s helmsmen, said of the DSS foil before the race: “It gives us some more stability in those tighter angles and in the heavy downwind it lifts the bow 300mm. In those steep little seas it helps get us on to the waves and surf for longer. We have seen it really work a couple of times, which has really blown us away when it clicks in.”

Arriving in Hobart, Wild Oats XI's wizened tactician Iain Murray attributed a 5% gain in Wild Oats XI’s speed to the DSS foil, which had been put to good work as the wind built to more than 30 knots coming down the east coast of Tasmania and continued to build as they hardened up to cross the aptly named Storm Bay."


I have said here before that from all innovations that have appeared recently in what regards sailing the DSS seemed to me the more promising. I have a big respect for its creator Hugh Welbourn and I believe that from now one we will see a lot of big yachts using this system that, according with its creator, on a boat created from the beginning to use it, it will be much more effective.

Maybe after all the Hugh Welbourn designed Infiniti 100R will see the light of day. I sure would like that:

Excellent! Really glad you found and posted this. Bet they're not going to share any of the actual data with the reading public though.
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  #5605  
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More about Stamm's accident

Stamm give an interview to the French Newspaper Figaro and some more information come to the light, namely what was already suspected: they sailed in "normal" conditions for that type of boat and the causes of the accident are unknown. They are tryng to understand how that could have happened.

Actualités Nautisme : l'actualité du nautisme au quotidien avec Figaro Nautisme

a translation of what is new regarding what he had already said and have already been posted:

The seas were big with waves breaking regularly but everything had been preview to face these weather conditions: We were under storm jib and with 4 reefs in the main. Everything was under control: We were sailing downwind in a way that was similar to evasive sailing, running with the wind. The boat was doing 12/13K (out of surfs) and it was behaving very well. I was at the chart table with Danien Guillou when, in a wave, we heard a huge crack: the boat break completely in two parts.

It is reasonable to sail in these conditions on delivery?

There was a lot of wind, that's for sure but we knew what we were doing and we knew about the weather conditions..
We knew that we were going to have 3 or 4 hours with very strong wind but these boats are made for that.

We had 45K and some tomes 50K. We don't prepare for circumnavigations sailing in Britany with 15k winds.

Even at the time were the accident took place, we didn't feel the need to diminish the sail area and go to bare poles and that is a possibility in very strong winds. The boat was going well....and if we didn't stop we would only have one more hour of strong wind before it start to diminish...

The problem was with the boat, that is designed to sail on big seas, and broke in two....one thing is for sure: we were sailing much lower than the boat potential (under-speed) ... that's what is incredible. When we are racing and we are attacking exploiting the boat full potential..., then we are stressing the boats, but on this occasion we sailed in complete security and the boat was very little stressed. That makes no sense.

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Last edited by PCP; 01-02-2014 at 11:50 AM.
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  #5606  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

My dream boat now is the MD-35, a very narrow day sailer designed by Mills. Probably an interesting modification would be to install a DSS system!

Now a very little used MD-35 is for sale in Brazil for just $70.000. I hope that no one buy it before I get the money. (Maybe is an error to talk here about this Brazilian MD-35)
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  #5607  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Maxi Yachts: Daten der neuen Maxi 1200 stehen fest - Yachten + Jollen*|*YACHT.DE

Tech specs for the Maxi1200:

6,9t
2,6t keel, 2,2m deep
84sqm sail area
150l fuel
300l water

Really interesting if you ask me...
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  #5608  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by DiasDePlaya View Post
My dream boat now is the MD-35, a very narrow day sailer designed by Mills. Probably an interesting modification would be to install a DSS system!

Now a very little used MD-35 is for sale in Brazil for just $70.000. I hope that no one buy it before I get the money. (Maybe is an error to talk here about this Brazilian MD-35)
You best grab it at that price. The one for sale in the U.S. is asking $149,000 / €109.000!
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  #5609  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

I agree, move it fast!!!! you don't need all the money. Make a contract, give a signal and give yourself time to get a loan.
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Last edited by PCP; 01-02-2014 at 05:44 PM.
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  #5610  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

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Originally Posted by MrPelicano View Post
You best grab it at that price. The one for sale in the U.S. is asking $149,000 / €109.000!
This price is crazy as a new one ready to sail (instruments, sails, trailer, etc) is around $180.000. in Buenos Aires, just 1000 km from my house.

I'm in contact with the owner, but I need more money to do a serious offer for the boat.
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