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  #5661  
Old 01-07-2014
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by capt vimes View Post
i know - it cannot do the VOR any more... record chasing is good, but it does not answer my questions:
'But that would mean massive changes to the hull...
How can you bring the CG further aft without moving the heaviest parts - keel and mast?'
the keel alone holds around 45% of the weight - you know that moving the fixture of a canting keel means MASSIVE reconstruction of the support structure?
why in the world should anybody do that?
it is probably cheaper - and safer in terms of structural integrity - to build a new hull from scratch...
There is the idea that Carbon boats are not easily repaired or modified and that is partially true on the sense that needs more equipment, the same it was used to do the boat in first place but given that pretty much is possible. There are racing boats that have been considerably lengthened, some Australian big ones and the the same with some ORMA boats (trimarans) that were transformed in new bigger trimarans cannibalizing the smaller boats.

It can be made but it is hugely expensive so in the end probably you are right and they did not modify substantially the keel placement and as Robelz suggest probably they just brought the bulb aft and only that will make some difference. We are talking here about small differences. I don't believe that the boat was wrongly designed. In its time it w a winner and the boat had beaten then the monohul 24 hours record. We are talking about very small modifications to better the boat, not big changes.





Yes, the boat cannot race the VOR anymore, since it is a mono class now but could have raced the last edition. It didn't race it because it was not competitive anymore regarding the new VOR generation. Nobody would be wasting a fortune on a new boat if an old one with some modifications could win the race.

Robelz, what makes a boat good for chasing records, I mean long distance ocean records, is not different than what makes him good for racing the VOR. The difference is that while beating records the crew is choosing the weather for a perfect run and the boat does it alone, on the VOR they don't chose the weather and are on direct competition with other boats.

Regards

Paulo
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Last edited by PCP; 01-07-2014 at 07:55 AM.
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  #5662  
Old 01-07-2014
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by robelz View Post
It has already been on a weight reduction program, resulting in a 10% drop in weight. Just as with roadgoing Maseratis the weight distribution has been optimized rearwards, to make it particularly well-suited to high-speed sailing.

From the Maserati page...
i believe you.
but to me it seems that reducing the weight of an VOR 70 is like sending a really skinny model to hospital for a liposuction...
i mean - 10% of a rated displacement of 14 t is still 1,4 t... i have no idea where they should have scraped that off since a raceboat is nothing but structure and mechanics (sails, rig, deck hardware, appendages...)
Groupama 4

Quote:
Wouldn't it be possible just to fix the bulb further aft? Making an L out of a T?
i guess - but i wager not without reinforcing or redesigning the keel blade as well...
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WOW!! boat: TT700

Lots of WOW boats but few that we can buy and this is one of them, an incredible boat. I had some difficulty in believing my eyes This is a boat designed on a mini racer type of hull, a big bigger, but with an unbelievable interior and a classy outside look. Designed by Zerbinati it was home built by a naval engineer that obviously new what he was doing. Now the boat is built on a small production scale.

On the movie skip the talk and have a good look at the interior...amazing!!!












SAM Yacht
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  #5664  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by capt vimes View Post
i guess - but i wager not without reinforcing or redesigning the keel blade as well...
As I wrote they gave it a longer keel (with a lighter bulb) so a) a part of the weight reduction comes from the keel and b) they obviously redesigned the keel...
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Masetati / Ericsson 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by robelz View Post
As I wrote they gave it a longer keel (with a lighter bulb) so a) a part of the weight reduction comes from the keel and b) they obviously redesigned the keel...
Here are they, or should I say here it is the boat:



In fact it seems that the bulb is slightly pulled aft.

Regarding draft there is a 0.8m difference but as you recall there was a big fight at the time because measures arbitrarily obliged the Ericsson 4 keel to be modified (in JK opinion) taking out 350kg from the bulb.

So in fact if we join those kgs to the ones that a bulb positioned 80cms lower will save, it is possible that we reach about 1000kgs. Maybe a lighter mast would have helped to save some kgs too. I believe Vimes is correct in saying that in what regards the hull no significant savings were possible.





Regards

Paulo
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Last edited by PCP; 01-07-2014 at 11:22 AM.
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Stanley Paris in trouble

Loss of Sail and Injury:

"New Years Eve started out well, but by early morning the wind picked up and I was caught with a light headwind sail, which was in danger of being overloaded. On several occasions I had to take the helm. It was a scary situation and no sleep for me. The 1/2 bottle of champagne to celebrate the new year had not been touched. Finally at 4:00 am, a gust blew out the sail and torn fabric filled the air with a swooshing sound. It was dark and there was nothing I could do but watch the sail self destruct. Come dawn, I started the long process of getting the sail down and on deck before stuffing it away below. This would have been too dangerous to do at night. It is a pile of scraps.

While pulling on some pieces stuck in the shrouds, one piece suddenly gave way and I fell flat on my back onto an extrusion of the deck. The pain just below my left scapula was in as much as any pain I have ever experienced. I lay still for a few minutes testing my lungs and then started to get going. I could feel a rib cracking in my back. Crawling was out, as my left arm could take no weight. A few more actions and I collapsed for several hours in the cockpit.

Today, three days later, I am doing better, but am very limited with what I can do with the left arm. It’s getting better and will take a few more days before some of the needed tasks on the boat can be attended to. I am now sailing conservatively and gently, until such time as I am ready again and can attend to a number of tasks...."




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Mini racing

Another great movie taken on the last transat, Cape Finisterra to be precise.

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Mini racer beached:

That is the second time I see a mini racer violently beached....and get away with it. This one, after a failed attempt to tow it was just pulled up by an helicopter and put on the sea again were it was towed (they had took the mast out). Impressive

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Re: Mini racing

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Another great movie taken on the last transat, Cape Finisterra to be precise.

I have to confess that as I was watching this video I kept thinking: "Why doesn't he put up the A5 spinnaker?" And I had to keep reminding myself that it's blowing like stink and the sea state is a bit confused - not the best recipe for flying the kite when you're only a few days into the race.

But then I'm thinking: "Somewhere out there Pedote, Belloir, Mettraux, Marie, etc., all probably have spinnakers up."

So, I don't believe I have what it takes to be a competitive Mini racer.
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Old 01-08-2014
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

You are crazy The guy is saying that he had just taken the Spi out, almost 40K of wind, the small boat doing what seems to be 16K in a very disorganized sea and you want to fly the spy?

You should be racing these babies

Regards

Paulo
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