Interesting Sailboats - Page 569 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Boat Review and Purchase Forum
 Not a Member? 


Like Tree1266Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #5681  
Old 01-08-2014
PCP's Avatar
PCP PCP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal, West Coast
Posts: 16,187
Thanks: 21
Thanked 98 Times in 81 Posts
Rep Power: 10
PCP will become famous soon enough
Jörg Riechers finally on Open60 (IMOCA).

After his success on the Mini class and 40class the German sailor reached finally the top solo sailing class and Mare is also an Open60, unfortunately not a new one, a 2th generation one that it will be a 3th generation when the next Vendee starts (and that will limit his performance).

The boat is the old 2008 Foncia (Vendee Globe winner) that then changed the name for Mapfre ( Iker Martinez and Xabi Fernandez raced it in the last Barcelona World Race) and recently, on the last races was known as Maître Coq sailed by Jeremie Beyou.

He will race with Sébastien Audigane the 2014-5 Barcelona World Race and will do the next vendee globe.

A movie with the "new" boat:

http://tv.yacht.de/video/%2526quot%2...1c5fb1f4470d51
EricKLYC and capt vimes like this.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by PCP; 01-08-2014 at 02:21 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #5682  
Old 01-08-2014
PCP's Avatar
PCP PCP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal, West Coast
Posts: 16,187
Thanks: 21
Thanked 98 Times in 81 Posts
Rep Power: 10
PCP will become famous soon enough
Size and speed

Quote:
Originally Posted by robelz View Post
There is one SF3600 and not a single 10.80 built up to now: How could they register without (really) knowing wether they will have a boat or not?

I did not know the Opium is rated so high...
Yes, they will have a boat and the race will only start in 200 days. I believe that a conditional entry can be made (since they don't now yet the TCC rating of the boat).

From some time now that I wanted to make a post about ratings and boat speed. The images of small boats like the JPK 10.10, Pogo 30 or SF 3200 planning fast downwind give the impression that those boats are faster than bigger performance boats, heavier boats that don't plane so easily and even if that can be true under a very small set of conditions is not true in what regards the overall picture and sail conditions.

Sure, they can have an advantage on a transat with strong trade winds because that's where some of those conditions are more frequent but on a regatta course or in coastal or offshore races with mixed winds the difference in speed is true regarding their rating.

We have seen that the boats I have mentioned on a previous post and that race the transquadra have a IRC TCC rating between 0.949 and 1,051 being the ones with higher rating the new SF 3600 and the new JPK 10.80. The Pogo 10.50 and the Opium 39 would be inside the old max TCC allowed of 1.074 but are now out.

Just to give an idea how size matters I will post some TCC-IRC of several fast 40ft performance cruisers and of some well known racers the size of the SF 3600, the Figaro II, and class 40 just to put things in perspective. Several numbers means that I have found different values regarding different boats.

X40: 1.069... Elan 410: 1.067/1.064/1071.... Grand Soleil 40: 1.063.....J122: 1091/1086/1.084.....XP 38: 1.081/1.086...

Comet 41s: 1.084...... First 40 :1088/1.085/1084.... A40 – 1091/1087/1086..... X41: 1.097.... Ker 39: 1.123/1.136/1.235/1.115...

.MAT12: 1.132 ....Mills 39: 1.100....Pogo 12.50: 1.176 ...King 40 1.120/1.194 ....MC33 patton 1.053...

Class 40: 1.176/1.188/ 1280..... Figaro II: 1.085/1.094/1.080/1.081

Of course, one thing is the rating other the ability of a boat to be sailed to it and in what regards boats like a class 40 or a Pogo 12.50 they will only be able to do it in a race mostly downwind (what explains the normally bad results of these fast boats in IRC racing where mixed conditions are the norm).

Regarding performance cruising it makes sense to have a bigger boat that allows an overall better speed and more interior space, regarding racing and specially in what regards short handed racing or solo it makes sense a smaller boat because you need a crew to exploit a bigger one, with the exception of boats like the Pogo or Opium that can be sailed with a small crew or solo.

Regarding compensated racing with a crew that is a completely different ball game and here size does not count and it makes sense to have a smaller less expensive boat that needs less crew and can have results as good as a bigger one and win races. That's where the A31, A35 and JPK 10.10 are winners, double winners since they are also good boats for solo or short crew sailing as their results on the transaquadra and on the last Fastnet show.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by PCP; 01-08-2014 at 10:20 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #5683  
Old 01-09-2014
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Sofia, Bulgaria
Posts: 168
Thanks: 1
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 3
olianta is on a distinguished road
Re: Interesting Sailboats

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Eu2CQ7pyUM

Hi all,

Have not posted for long time, however have been following the thread. Browsing the web I found out the Infiniti yacht brand (thought it was brand bane only for fast luxurious cars). Though not cars, they have patented the DSS (Dynamic Stability System) representing use of additional foils. They seem to be interesting though on the hi-end.

I thought Paulo and all others would find such boats intriguing. I did not find, however, their basic parameters although they seem to be very light and able to carry a lot of sail (like the multihulls).

Rumen
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #5684  
Old 01-09-2014
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Germany
Posts: 682
Thanks: 5
Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts
Rep Power: 2
robelz is on a distinguished road
Re: Jörg Riechers finally on Open60 (IMOCA).

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
After his success on the Mini class and 40class the German sailor reached finally the top solo sailing class and Mare is also an Open60, unfortunately not a new one, a 2th generation one that it will be a 3th generation when the next Vendee starts (and that will limit his performance).

The boat is the old 2008 Foncia (Vendee Globe winner) that then changed the name for Mapfre ( Iker Martinez and Xabi Fernandez raced it in the last Barcelona World Race) and recently, on the last races was known as Maître Coq sailed by Jeremie Beyou.

He will race with Sébastien Audigane the 2014-5 Barcelona World Race and will do the next vendee globe.

A movie with the "new" boat:

"Mare", der erste deutsche Open 60 - Yacht TV - Segel Videos von Europas größtem Yacht Magazin
I'd rather like to see Boris Hermann instead of Jörg Riechers in an Open60...

The video seems to be pretty old. The boat is modified yet...

Last edited by robelz; 01-09-2014 at 05:14 AM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #5685  
Old 01-09-2014
PCP's Avatar
PCP PCP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal, West Coast
Posts: 16,187
Thanks: 21
Thanked 98 Times in 81 Posts
Rep Power: 10
PCP will become famous soon enough
Hugh welbourn and DSS

Quote:
Originally Posted by olianta View Post
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Eu2CQ7pyUM

Hi all,

Have not posted for long time, however have been following the thread. Browsing the web I found out the Infiniti yacht brand (thought it was brand bane only for fast luxurious cars). Though not cars, they have patented the DSS (Dynamic Stability System) representing use of additional foils. They seem to be interesting though on the hi-end.

I thought Paulo and all others would find such boats intriguing. I did not find, however, their basic parameters although they seem to be very light and able to carry a lot of sail (like the multihulls).

Rumen
Hi Rumen, Glad to know that you still follow this thread

Yes it it was posted long ago but it is a nice one:



The creator of DSS, Hugh welbourn is associated with Infiniti yachts, that are designed also by him. I hope that after the victory of the Wild Oats and the validity of the DSS system proved in racing, we will see finally that 100ft having an order that allow it to see the light of the day.

Even out of DSS system Hugh welbourn had proved himself as designer on the racing field with the design of the DK 46 (2002), a great performance cruiser with a long list of victories. The boat is also sometime given as a Mills design?? maybe Hugh Welbourn worked for mills at the time?



He also designed the JK 50 that would be the first true cruiser with a DSS system. They start yo build the boat but it was sold before it was finished and I don't think it is on the water yet. A very nice cruiser though.









Regards

Paulo
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by PCP; 01-09-2014 at 10:43 AM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #5686  
Old 01-09-2014
capt vimes's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 617
Thanks: 7
Thanked 17 Times in 17 Posts
Rep Power: 1
capt vimes is on a distinguished road
Re: Interesting Sailboats

true - the JK looks really nice...
i like the full height doors (its no longer a companionway, isn't it) into the saloon...

on another note from their website:
"NEWS FLASH - Bare hull and deck
fully faired with Engine and machinery
installed AVAILABLE NOW
email james@jkyachts.com for more info"

JKyachts builders of the JK50DSS - JK yachts
are they really selling a bare hull to anyone for finishing the boat in his backyard or some other place?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #5687  
Old 01-09-2014
PCP's Avatar
PCP PCP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal, West Coast
Posts: 16,187
Thanks: 21
Thanked 98 Times in 81 Posts
Rep Power: 10
PCP will become famous soon enough
Re: Interesting Sailboats

Look at the end of the page: Lots of photos.

JK Yachts JK 50 Unfinished Project em Saône-et-Loire | Veleiros usados 77092

I believe the money finished, they did not have an order or had one but someone had given up and they had to sell the boat unfinished.

I believe it is already sold since the add is deactivated.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #5688  
Old 01-09-2014
PCP's Avatar
PCP PCP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal, West Coast
Posts: 16,187
Thanks: 21
Thanked 98 Times in 81 Posts
Rep Power: 10
PCP will become famous soon enough
Fantastic story: mini racers are very strong boats!!!

I have posted recently a video of a mini boat being salvaged after being thrown to a beach, well, I have another rescue story, one even more unbelievable, regarding this Pogo and Federico Fornaro:




He was doing the last Transat, everything went fine till only 300NM from the finish where he broke both rudders and have to be rescued leaving the boat. Later he tried to find the boat on the islands.... Here is his incredible story, translated from Italian:





Federico Fornaro , an Italian skipper (from Roma) saw his dream to finish the last mini transat end at only 300 miles from Guadeloupe.

The failure of both rudders had forced him to abandon his Mini racer, Jolie Rouge, to be rescued by the Imaginaire, one of the six support boats that followed the race.

For a sailor, losing his boat, it's like losing a loved one . Federico once arrived on land forget the disappointment for not having made it and started ...the search of his beloved 6.50 racer.

This is the story:

... After 30 days at sea , a few miles from the finish, with damages on the rudders the Roman navigator is on trouble.... ""I felt the tiller blocked, the steel support broke and the left rudder was slamming against the transom risking to open a breach in the hull".

Frederick disassemble the damaged blade and continues to navigate with a rudder alone, hoping not to over stress it. " Vain hope: the blade of the right rudder cannot stand alone and on the night the steel support broke in a way that could not be repaired. The boat was uncontrollable....I can not fight anymore ... help arrives and... I've abandoned my girlfriend , I've sacrificed it so I can save myself ... I still watch the waves roll Jolie and it breaks my heart.

...But his boat is his traveling companion. For him it has a soul that is invisible to the eyes of others and abandoning it in the middle of the sea is like leaving a friend drown in the waves.

...
The eyes of Frederick , on arrival in Guadeloupe, express a tired deep sadness but on the middle of that anguish , you can see a shimmer , a little hope of finding Jolie Rouge and save her from the cruel fate of finding eternal rest in the bottom of the ocean or in the clutches of sharp rocks.

... "I left the satellite locator working and it has continued to emit a GPS signal , and so every day I received the coordinates of the drifting boat" . Thus began a treasure hunt : "The boat pushed by winds of South- East advancing at the speed of 1K with a route that took over the West Indies. I went to the island of Saint Martin that lying to the North seemed to be the best starting point to begin a search . "

Madness ? Tenacity ? Romance ? Maybe a little of all drove Frederick. "The wind increased to 30 knots forming a beautiful sea. I am struggling to find a boat available to leave for what would be a great amount of upwind sailing.

Then I remember Manu, a Brittany sailor who sails the Atlantic avoiding as much as possible land. He offers me help and is available to sail away. ... two great sailors in search of adventures, begin the search for the small sailboat . " It is now a race against time, the boat could either be intercepted by some local fisherman or worse, crashing on a reef in Barbuda."

After a night of navigation , at dawn, the first good news: " Near the north-east coast of the island we see a tree without sails that appear and disappear on the waves that break on the reefs: Jolie Rouge seems to have stopped just before the breakers. "

But it's too dangerous to approach Manu's boat , we need to find fishermen for helping with the rescue. " I went ashore and found a village with a few low houses, a small bar and an immigration office where we are forced to fill a lot of forms, piles of paper and stamps. ....

" A small group of local fishermen agrees to take us out with their motor boat , but not before putting gasoline, which means losing more hours to go to fill the tanks on the other side of the island ." ..." we saw first the inclined mast and then the boat lying on its side on the reef. As if that were not bad enough , other men on a small boat were looting the boat. Between shouts and curses I jumped to my boat and they, in minority give up quickly , but not before stilling the generator the, GPS, various equipment .

The boat had small fractures, but it has a hard "skin" and we manage to tow it to Saint Martin were it was put on the hard. It is saved!!!

Now I can go back to Rome, glad to be able to change the ending of this story. But is this really an end?


L?incredibile storia di Federico Fornaro e del suo Jolie Rouge, ritrovato dopo due settimane! | Giornale della Vela - notizie di vela - regate - crociera
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by PCP; 01-09-2014 at 12:34 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #5689  
Old 01-09-2014
PCP's Avatar
PCP PCP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal, West Coast
Posts: 16,187
Thanks: 21
Thanked 98 Times in 81 Posts
Rep Power: 10
PCP will become famous soon enough
Defline and Aventura cats

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Indigo yachts is one of the small French shipyards that makes very interesting boats at a fair price. We have talked already about the Kerkena 6.1 and 7.6, small sportive coastal cruising monohulls, but Indigo yacht was already well known before for their interesting sportive cruising coastal catamarans.

... now they propose the Aventura 43, an Offshore cat designed by Defline one of the most talented young French NAs.

The boat is not only very interesting, offering good sailing performances with a great interior space as it is also proposed at a good price for a non mass produced customized cat: 295 000€
























NA : Martin DEFLINE

LH : 13.20 m
Beam : 7.00 m
Light weight : 8300 Kg
Weight at Max load : 12400 Kg
Draft : 0.40 m
upwind sail: 99.3 m2
Spi Asy : 117.2 m2
Water : 600 L
Fuel : 561 L

....
Well, the boat is on the water.






The movies are bad and the wind does not help:



What happened to the keels?

I don't like the interior design even if the boat seems to have lots of space and a good interior:



Aventura Catamarans : Constructions Composites & Chantier Naval
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by PCP; 01-09-2014 at 06:45 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #5690  
Old 01-09-2014
PCP's Avatar
PCP PCP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal, West Coast
Posts: 16,187
Thanks: 21
Thanked 98 Times in 81 Posts
Rep Power: 10
PCP will become famous soon enough
Mad sailing

The Australians are great sailors but if we took this video as an example, also mad sailors. Who would think of racing on these conditions? Olé!!!!

__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 2 (1 members and 1 guests)
slap
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Cruising sailboats for sale welch Cruising & Liveaboard Forum 10 04-25-2012 05:20 PM
THE Yacht Builder List T37Chef Boat Review and Purchase Forum 26 07-08-2011 05:51 AM
Noob wonderings and questions about sailing, life at sail and sailboats Vans General Discussion (sailing related) 49 06-20-2011 12:18 AM
A List of ALL sailboats made with layouts? Myblueheaven Boat Review and Purchase Forum 8 10-08-2010 11:32 AM
Failure to Navigate - interesting post on Panbo Blog & from the NewsReader Mass Bay Sailors 0 12-11-2006 06:15 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:17 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.