Interesting Sailboats - Page 572 - SailNet Community
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post #5711 of 6763 Old 01-14-2014 Thread Starter
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Re: What boat?

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..... And, with some modest upgrades, the boat might be able to qualify for the Singlehanded Transpac Race, from San Francisco to Kauai, Hawai'i.
Hummm....you are crazy!

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Originally Posted by MrPelicano View Post
Going back to my long term goals, then we are definitely talking, again, about the Django 7.70 and the Archambault 31, as well as a few others. My wife, of course would prefer to see a Dehler 38 in her future (or now a Dehler 46, thanks to your earlier posting), but haven't figured out how the math would work for those choices. As in so many things in life, it's not the simple acquistion of something but the long term maintenance of it that becomes a challenge. I would not want a boat like the Dehler 46 if I was unable to maintain it in pristine condition. Boats that beautiful deserve no less.

But thank you for keeping my best interests in mind.
Talking about your best interests, meaning by that your wife, as a short term proposition that would serve all the purposes you could have one of these. You can find them used at very nice prices and it is a beautiful boat, not ridiculous racing nor cruising:





(photos taken last year on the Jakinthos Island, Greece)

http://www.farrdesign.com/622results.html

First 35 yachts - Boats First 35 used, new and charter boats

or even one of this:

Comar Comet 38 s year 2008

It done great in the last ORCI world championship. Even a better interior and bigger cruising potential.

http://www.comaryachts.it/Card.Aspx?BoatId=8&Modo=P67

Regards

Paulo


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post #5712 of 6763 Old 01-14-2014
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Re: What boat?

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Hummm....you are crazy!



Talking about your best interests, meaning by that your wife, as a short term proposition that would serve all the purposes you could have one of these. You can find them used at very nice prices and it is a beautiful boat, not ridiculous racing nor cruising:

Farr Yacht Design

First 35 yachts - Boats First 35 used, new and charter boats

Regards

Paulo
Alas, there are no used Beneteau First 35's on the market in North America (recent model, that is). And, to tell the truth, I have not seen one on the water locally (Long Island Sound). Not sure if they sold (m)any in the U.S. at all.

Of course, they haven't sold (m)any First 30's either.

As we have mentioned before, what they are selling is J/70's and, now, J/88's and not a whole lot more than that.

And not sure what you mean by "affordable" since 2010-2013 models of the First 35 are selling for more than $170K. I'm not saying that's outrageous - not much different than a new J/88, in fact - but definitely more than I want to spend for anything I'm not going to live aboard.

So I think I go back to my other strategy, which is to get a small, TransQuadra-style boat, and use the money I save for airplane tickets for the wife. I have quite a few friends who will be happy to join me for offshore sailing, even across oceans.

We deal in lead, friend.
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post #5713 of 6763 Old 01-14-2014 Thread Starter
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First 35

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Originally Posted by MrPelicano View Post
Alas, there are no used Beneteau First 35's on the market in North America (recent model, that is). And, to tell the truth, I have not seen one on the water locally (Long Island Sound). Not sure if they sold (m)any in the U.S. at all.

Of course, they haven't sold (m)any First 30's either.

As we have mentioned before, what they are selling is J/70's and, now, J/88's and not a whole lot more than that.

And not sure what you mean by "affordable" since 2010-2013 models of the First 35 are selling for more than $170K. I'm not saying that's outrageous - not much different than a new J/88, in fact - but definitely more than I want to spend for anything I'm not going to live aboard.

So I think I go back to my other strategy, which is to get a small, TransQuadra-style boat, and use the money I save for airplane tickets for the wife. I have quite a few friends who will be happy to join me for offshore sailing, even across oceans.
A 2010 First 35 costs about 100 000 euros, about the same as a 2008 Comet 38s.

Beneteau First 35, Used of 2010 - 358397



I think the VAT is deductible. Lots of First 35 here for selling. A good boat with that age will need pretty much new sails and nothing else. You can pick the boat here and sail the ARC in the racing division back home. Fun and a good deal since I believe the boat will sell well on the US when you want to sell it. On that one I believe your wife could enjoy cruising.

Regards

Paulo


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post #5714 of 6763 Old 01-14-2014
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Paulo:
I mentioned you in my SAILING reviews this month.
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post #5715 of 6763 Old 01-14-2014 Thread Starter
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Cruising and racing with wing sails

I have been following the developments regarding this technology regarding cruising boats. In fact it is not a new thing, the French have toyed with it on the 80s in what concerns offshore racing boats but the concept never proved to have reliability and enough efficiency.

It seems to me things are changing fast and the ones that seem to be leading the ball in what concerns practicability, costs and a possible utilization on cruising boats are One sails, the Italian sail company. In fact they believe that in 15 years almost all boats will have some kind of a wing sail.

I have saw their first video (that I will re-post at the bottom) but only recently I saw one with a comparison on the water between two identical boats, one with wing sail the other with conventional high quality sails and the results are conclusive even if the sail is still in development:

Aile souple : la voile du futur ?

The boats are Seascape 18 and we can see that the wing boat is not only faster as it can point 5 better upwind and sail downwind at a bigger angle.

The wing can be reefed and I believe that this type of soft sail wings will not take long to be available, first on racers and after in performance cruisers.

Here a previous movie with that sail on a previous phase of development.



and they are not the only ones working on it:







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post #5716 of 6763 Old 01-14-2014 Thread Starter
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

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Paulo:
I mentioned you in my SAILING reviews this month.
I hope not to say that I only say BS

Thanks!

Regards

Paulo


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post #5717 of 6763 Old 01-14-2014
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Nope Paulo. I just said that we disagree on Euro styling sometimes.
I had three boats to review:
Bavaria Cruiser 51
Dufour 410
Sun Odyssey 349

I also talk about the regular "critics" I have.

The three boats shared numerous features in common. So I made that the theme of this review group. I'll let you know when it is available online.

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post #5718 of 6763 Old 01-14-2014 Thread Starter
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The improperly called Euro Style:

Regarding euro style the disagreement is not only "sometimes" but about existing one

What you call Euro styles I call modern design (on a sense that like modern art is an Universal one). Some of the best designers of what you call "modern style" are American NA firms like Farr or Reichel & Pugh, others are from Oceania like Ker. Like modern art modern boat design is a "functionalist" one and beauty is clearly related with efficiency regarding sailing. What works better will become beautiful with time and is already beautiful to the eyes of the NA.

I am sure you understand but for the ones that don't this does not mean that I find that is the only right form to design a sailboat. Many times the differences in performance are not significant in what regards cruising but a "modern" Na will always go for the more efficient shape or form (because for him that is beauty) while someone that designs "on the tradition" will give more importance to classic or traditional shapes because on his eyes beauty is not only efficiency but also tradition.

Anyway, I like traditional and classic boats or boats that, like yours, that are on "tradition". I just don't think that what you call European style is an appropriated denomination. If you don't like to call them modern, you can it "Universal style"


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post #5719 of 6763 Old 01-14-2014
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

OK, That makes sense to me. I will stop using "Euro" and I will use "modern". That's fair.
I appreciate the explanation.

You know this means I'm going to have to talk about you again?

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post #5720 of 6763 Old 01-14-2014
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Problem is it is not "universal". Folks still buy and build Chippendale furniture. It has timeless beauty and is very functional. I've built multiple pieces. They are still in daily use. There are timeless designs be they highboys, Bach, America or a turbo Bentley. There is a comfort provided by the white and wood of a Herreshoff interior or that of Bob's boats or a Morris or Outbound. My parents house was done in Danish modern and cutting edge Euro. My dad collected antique clocks and watches. It was striking to see these pieces displaced in that background. But when we broke their place up I kept the clocks and the furniture went elsewhere. My mom was an art educator and collected some. Same thing the modern art went elsewhere. The good representative art stayed. It's a different view. Not better or worse just different. It has nothing to do with function. Like saying a good rocker is less comfortable then a Morris chair then a Bauhaus then a Stress less. I like the Stress less ( a modern design) wife likes a shaker rocker.
In short Bob's boats are not slow but they are beautiful.

s/v Hippocampus
Outbound 46
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