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  #5721  
Old 01-13-2014
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What boat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrPelicano View Post
....
However, I won't let it interrupt my current love affair with the Elan 210, which is now competing for my heart with the Seascape 27 and the Django 7.70.
I don't know what is doing the Elan 210 on your dreams but I don't think it would be of much use to you

In fact it is pretty easy: If you want a boat to solo sail and an oceanic racer, as well as a good cruiser, that's easy, it is the Django 7.70 on its racing version (the interior is the same):



Marée Haute - Le Chantier Marée Haute lance le Django Ocean Race - VoilesNews

The Seascape 27 is a fast and fun boat to sail but it is a coastal boat. sure you will have fun racing it but not good results in compensated neither it will be a good boat for crewed race. Now, there is another option, I posted about it but you seemed distracted. This baby:













This one can be a good option regarding speed, short crew racing, crewed racing and it has also offshore potential. Two of them are going to make the next Transquadra.

Look at these prices:

Sormiou Yachts 29 occasion - Annonces de voiliers en vente

Regards

Paulo
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  #5722  
Old 01-13-2014
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by capt vimes View Post
Thank's mr pelicano...
I knew about the volcanic stuff from their homepage but it does not reveal what is in it exactly... Volcanic material goes from pumice to granite and non of this stuff is known for its tensile strength... Carbon is also not known for tensile strength, but it comes in a wide variety of configurations which goes from diamond to graphite and back via fulerenes, nanotubes and meets with diamond again in the form of graphen...
I really would like to know what is in it, because 'rock' is a lot of different elements and molecules all mixed up...
As Pelicano said, I had already posted about it:

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
I don't think you can do an Ocean racer smaller than the Mini6.50 not on account of the boat but on account of seaworthiness and safety. You have some guys doing the Pogo 2 in America and the boat is not expensive for an Ocean racer.

Regarding the material that's another story. That's a CFS (Carbon Fiber Stone) material and the first I herd about CFS was on the Salona shipyard. In fact they use the material, not with volcanic stone but with granite that seems even strange to me. In fact if you order a Salona (any of them) in IBC specifications (infusion based carbon) the bulkheads are made in CFS, using granite. Take a look at the movie and stop exactly om 1.00 minute and you will see. All bulkheads are made with that material. It is not painted black it is just its color:



I saw the material there, it comes in big panels and its weird, black as the night, very light and very strong.

I looked at the time on internet searching for the material and I found very little. It says well from Salona since they are using it on top performance boats for years. Maybe because they are a small subdivision of a huge plastics and fibers manufacturer they have access to information and top materials in what regards the plastic/fibers development.

You should see my face when they asked to me if I wanted granite bulkheads on my boat

Some more information:

Towards a new Stone Age

http://technocarbon.de/presse/SD_CM_...chnocarbon.pdf

PS: that boat can have also an interior made of a lighter material (and more expensive) but it seems to me that it is a normal interior. The mast, boom and wheels are carbon but it has also teak decks so it is not a top racer. Some guy that wanted a fast but comfortable boat.
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  #5723  
Old 01-14-2014
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the Flying Phantom one design

looks better and better. I hope this is going to be a success as a class. It deserves it and I would love to see some fleet racing images

Flying Phantom One design from Jeremie Eloy/ Wanaii Films on Vimeo.

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  #5724  
Old 01-14-2014
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Re: What boat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
I don't know what is doing the Elan 210 on your dreams but I don't think it would be of much use to you
I can explain...

My infatuation with the Elan 210 is strictly as a short-term solution, since it more and more appears that my offshore sailing goals are being pushed out further than I would like.

For racing / crusing within Long Island Sound and the northeast U.S. coast, the Elan 210 would be quite suitable, particularly at the quoted price point. The fact that it can be easily trailered also opens the option of Key West and the Caribbean, to some extent, as well as the Sea of Cortez, on the Mexico West Coast. And, with some modest upgrades, the boat might be able to qualify for the Singlehanded Transpac Race, from San Francisco to Kauai, Hawai'i.

The case for the Seascape 27 is the same, albeit more expensive by about 30-40%.

Going back to my long term goals, then we are definitely talking, again, about the Django 7.70 and the Archambault 31, as well as a few others. My wife, of course would prefer to see a Dehler 38 in her future (or now a Dehler 46, thanks to your earlier posting), but haven't figured out how the math would work for those choices. As in so many things in life, it's not the simple acquistion of something but the long term maintenance of it that becomes a challenge. I would not want a boat like the Dehler 46 if I was unable to maintain it in pristine condition. Boats that beautiful deserve no less.

But thank you for keeping my best interests in mind.
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  #5725  
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Re: What boat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrPelicano View Post
..... And, with some modest upgrades, the boat might be able to qualify for the Singlehanded Transpac Race, from San Francisco to Kauai, Hawai'i.
Hummm....you are crazy!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrPelicano View Post
Going back to my long term goals, then we are definitely talking, again, about the Django 7.70 and the Archambault 31, as well as a few others. My wife, of course would prefer to see a Dehler 38 in her future (or now a Dehler 46, thanks to your earlier posting), but haven't figured out how the math would work for those choices. As in so many things in life, it's not the simple acquistion of something but the long term maintenance of it that becomes a challenge. I would not want a boat like the Dehler 46 if I was unable to maintain it in pristine condition. Boats that beautiful deserve no less.

But thank you for keeping my best interests in mind.
Talking about your best interests, meaning by that your wife, as a short term proposition that would serve all the purposes you could have one of these. You can find them used at very nice prices and it is a beautiful boat, not ridiculous racing nor cruising:





(photos taken last year on the Jakinthos Island, Greece)

http://www.farrdesign.com/622results.html

First 35 yachts - Boats First 35 used, new and charter boats

or even one of this:

Comar Comet 38 s year 2008

It done great in the last ORCI world championship. Even a better interior and bigger cruising potential.

http://www.comaryachts.it/Card.Aspx?BoatId=8&Modo=P67

Regards

Paulo
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Last edited by PCP; 01-14-2014 at 12:32 PM.
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  #5726  
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Re: What boat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Hummm....you are crazy!



Talking about your best interests, meaning by that your wife, as a short term proposition that would serve all the purposes you could have one of these. You can find them used at very nice prices and it is a beautiful boat, not ridiculous racing nor cruising:

Farr Yacht Design

First 35 yachts - Boats First 35 used, new and charter boats

Regards

Paulo
Alas, there are no used Beneteau First 35's on the market in North America (recent model, that is). And, to tell the truth, I have not seen one on the water locally (Long Island Sound). Not sure if they sold (m)any in the U.S. at all.

Of course, they haven't sold (m)any First 30's either.

As we have mentioned before, what they are selling is J/70's and, now, J/88's and not a whole lot more than that.

And not sure what you mean by "affordable" since 2010-2013 models of the First 35 are selling for more than $170K. I'm not saying that's outrageous - not much different than a new J/88, in fact - but definitely more than I want to spend for anything I'm not going to live aboard.

So I think I go back to my other strategy, which is to get a small, TransQuadra-style boat, and use the money I save for airplane tickets for the wife. I have quite a few friends who will be happy to join me for offshore sailing, even across oceans.
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  #5727  
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First 35

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrPelicano View Post
Alas, there are no used Beneteau First 35's on the market in North America (recent model, that is). And, to tell the truth, I have not seen one on the water locally (Long Island Sound). Not sure if they sold (m)any in the U.S. at all.

Of course, they haven't sold (m)any First 30's either.

As we have mentioned before, what they are selling is J/70's and, now, J/88's and not a whole lot more than that.

And not sure what you mean by "affordable" since 2010-2013 models of the First 35 are selling for more than $170K. I'm not saying that's outrageous - not much different than a new J/88, in fact - but definitely more than I want to spend for anything I'm not going to live aboard.

So I think I go back to my other strategy, which is to get a small, TransQuadra-style boat, and use the money I save for airplane tickets for the wife. I have quite a few friends who will be happy to join me for offshore sailing, even across oceans.
A 2010 First 35 costs about 100 000 euros, about the same as a 2008 Comet 38s.

Beneteau First 35, Used of 2010 - 358397



I think the VAT is deductible. Lots of First 35 here for selling. A good boat with that age will need pretty much new sails and nothing else. You can pick the boat here and sail the ARC in the racing division back home. Fun and a good deal since I believe the boat will sell well on the US when you want to sell it. On that one I believe your wife could enjoy cruising.

Regards

Paulo
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Last edited by PCP; 01-14-2014 at 02:44 PM.
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  #5728  
Old 01-14-2014
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Paulo:
I mentioned you in my SAILING reviews this month.
slap and funjohnson like this.
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  #5729  
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Cruising and racing with wing sails

I have been following the developments regarding this technology regarding cruising boats. In fact it is not a new thing, the French have toyed with it on the 80s in what concerns offshore racing boats but the concept never proved to have reliability and enough efficiency.

It seems to me things are changing fast and the ones that seem to be leading the ball in what concerns practicability, costs and a possible utilization on cruising boats are One sails, the Italian sail company. In fact they believe that in 15 years almost all boats will have some kind of a wing sail.

I have saw their first video (that I will re-post at the bottom) but only recently I saw one with a comparison on the water between two identical boats, one with wing sail the other with conventional high quality sails and the results are conclusive even if the sail is still in development:

Aile souple : la voile du futur ?

The boats are Seascape 18 and we can see that the wing boat is not only faster as it can point 5º better upwind and sail downwind at a bigger angle.

The wing can be reefed and I believe that this type of soft sail wings will not take long to be available, first on racers and after in performance cruisers.

Here a previous movie with that sail on a previous phase of development.



and they are not the only ones working on it:





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  #5730  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
Paulo:
I mentioned you in my SAILING reviews this month.
I hope not to say that I only say BS

Thanks!

Regards

Paulo
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