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  #5901  
Old 01-29-2014
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Vismara 34

Quote:
Originally Posted by olianta View Post
In the brokerage section of their site there is lone 34 named Asell, lying in Pisa and priced at €60000. The boat is 10 years old and has been participating in many races, probably abused a lot.

Regards
Rumen
Rumen, that boat has nothing to do with the boat I had posted that is a brand new design, or better the only thing ion common is that both were designed by Vismara and gave 34ft


http://www.vismaramarine.it/images/u..._asell_ita.pdf
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  #5902  
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Re: 250 000 at Dusseldorf boat show.

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Originally Posted by olianta View Post
I can't believe why one is going to downgrade from Halberg Rassy to Dufour. There are fast boats in the same quality league of Halberg Rassy.

Regards
Rumen
The question is: Is the quality worth the money? I would never again spend so much money in expensive wood instead of a perfect sail wardrobe and high-tech electronics... I simply do not need it, it doesn't even satisfy me...

PS: I co-own a HR42...
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  #5903  
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Re: Vismara 34

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Rumen, that boat has nothing to do with the boat I had posted that is a brand new design, or better the only thing ion common is that both were designed by Vismara and gave 34ft


http://www.vismaramarine.it/images/u..._asell_ita.pdf
I love the Brusafer on the first sight, on the second look it is a litte bit weird, ordered by a very rich man with lots of weird ideas (a strong focus on Hifi sound and so on)...
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Italian style yachts

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Originally Posted by capt vimes View Post
i personally do not like the 34 DS that much, but the hybrid 50 the more...
a very unusual design with this big stateroom aft and thus no real cockpit... she has an induction stove instead of the propane burners...
i really do not know if i could appreciate her interior though... and the mast rolling main...
i stumbled across vismara by sheer accident - they are way out of my budget, although the boats are beautiful and very performance oriented... very light with in most cases excessive draft.
They are one of the several Italian brands that have been posted on this thread that make top performance small yachts. Have a look back on the thread or look for instance at this ones (that have already been posted):

ICE Yachts srl - Ice Yachts

Mylius Yachts, Barche a vela, Fast Cruiser

ADVANCED - Italian Yachts

http://www.sly-yachts.com/en

B-YACHTS

http://www.solarisyachts.com/

ITALIA YACHTS ? Performance and cruising luxury boats

Fast cruising carbon sailing yacht Aureus XV - The Compact Maxi Yacht

ComarYachts

We have also Wally making big yachts:

Wally // Sail

Regards

Paulo
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Last edited by PCP; 01-29-2014 at 07:34 AM.
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  #5905  
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Re: 250 000 at Dusseldorf boat show.

Quote:
Originally Posted by robelz View Post
The question is: Is the quality worth the money? I would never again spend so much money in expensive wood instead of a perfect sail wardrobe and high-tech electronics... I simply do not need it, it doesn't even satisfy me...

PS: I co-own a HR42...
I didn't mean only the quality of wood. There are more important things that you mentioned in your post regarding the difference between First and Oceanis like hull stiffness due to better materials and technology, and keel material and its attachment, quality and robustness of standing rigging, etc. Running rigging and sails you can always upgrade on any boat. I could ask Oluf to skip all the wood from my boat but didn't because for this type of boat (modern and livable skerry cruiser) the wood outside and inside suits her and adds personality. Besides, I think besides the good looks all that wood on decks and below is functional as well in terms of nonslip and insulation.

Regards
Rumen
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Re: Italian style yachts

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Originally Posted by PCP View Post
We have also Wally making big yachts:

Wally // Sail

Regards

Paulo
There is a wally nano as well. 36 footer with plumb bow and enormous stern overhang.

Regards
Rumen

Last edited by Faster; 01-29-2014 at 11:01 AM. Reason: fixed quote
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  #5907  
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Aureus XV

A new movie about the Aureus. Definitively I would not mind to have one

This is what I am talking about regarding costs: a boat like this, with outstanding sailing performance that can be sailed at the touch of the fingers of a solo sailor, as to cost a lot more than a boat with a similarly luxurious interior but with only a decent sailing performance like an Halberg Rassy or a Najad. In boats, like in cars or even audio, top performance is really expensive.

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Re: Vismara 34

Quote:
Originally Posted by robelz View Post
I love the Brusafer on the first sight, on the second look it is a litte bit weird, ordered by a very rich man with lots of weird ideas (a strong focus on Hifi sound and so on)...
What I love in the boat is the hull design, rig and cockpit layout, not the interior.

Regards

Paulo
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Luxury versus good design and modern building techniques.

Quote:
Originally Posted by olianta View Post
I can't believe why one is going to downgrade from Halberg Rassy to Dufour. There are fast boats in the same quality league of Halberg Rassy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by robelz View Post
The question is: Is the quality worth the money? I would never again spend so much money in expensive wood instead of a perfect sail wardrobe and high-tech electronics... I simply do not need it, it doesn't even satisfy me...
PS: I co-own a HR42...
Quote:
Originally Posted by olianta View Post
I didn't mean only the quality of wood. There are more important things that you mentioned in your post regarding the difference between First and Oceanis like hull stiffness due to better materials and technology, and keel material and its attachment, quality and robustness of standing rigging, etc. Running rigging and sails you can always upgrade on any boat. …
Interesting discussion. Rumen I don’t think that in what regards sailing the Dufour 410 is a worst boat than the Halberg Rassy 412, in fact it is almost for sure the opposite, including hull stiffness. In fact you have a large choice of options on the Dufour and a top boat will match in hull quality and sail hardware a Halberg Rassy. On Dufour they use top building techniques:

"To increase performance and structural strength, Dufour Yachts uses cutting-edge techniques in the design and manufacture of their hulls and decks.
Decks, vacuum infusion technology: The resin sheets are impregnated by air suction. This advanced technology, which is widely used in the aeronautics industry, results in the production of a composite material of outstanding mechanical quality. Advantages : Significant structural weight / performance ratio.

Injection technology: Injection moulding consists of bringing resin in a space between two moulds, by injecting it under pressure to reinforce fibre cloths. This complex technique enables all air bubbles to be eliminated and produces a consistent fibre / resin ratio.

Decks are manufactured in one piece, resulting in excellent headroom.
Advantages : Significant gain in weight (better sail rigidity), original quality finish and excellent reliability.

Sandwich hulls, vacuum bonding: The sandwich hull is made up of a set of constituents laminated through pressure and bonding. The type of constituent varies according to the desired effect. Generally speaking, the sandwich hull is made up of a central layer of PVC foam placed between two reinforcements (laminated skin), protected by gelcoat on the exterior surface. Advantages : Better sound proofing, increased mechanical properties, increased longitudinal rigidity of the hull under equal displacement, no absorption humidity due to the use of PVC foam rather than balsa".


On Halberg- Rassy they say about their building techniques:

"Hull and Deck: Hand lay-up GRP hull with a vinylester based barrier coat. The hull is insu¬lated above water line with Divinycell PVC-foam against heat and cold. Under the mast support there is a steel beam moulded into the hull stiffener. Strong under floor reinforcements, bonded with composite. … Deck, coachroof areas and cockpit are of sandwich construction, solid in parts, laminated to the hull."

It seems to me that the bigger production has allowed Dufour to invest in high tech building techniques that are not yet used by Halberg-Rassy.

Regarding the interior I find the quality of the design way better on the Dufour 410, a bigger and more comfortable living space. Of course the quality of materials in the interior and the finish is superior on the Halberg-Rassy and it is to each one to decide if that deserves the difference in price or even if they prefer the Halberg-Rassy space.

What I said regarding boats needing a stronger and stiffer hull did not refer to Halberg-Rassy or Dufour 410, both non performance cruisers but regarding a comparison between a main market cruiser and a performance one like the Dufour 410 and the Dufour 40e or the Halberg-Rassy 412 and for instance an Arcona 410. The performance boats have bigger rigs, bigger RM for the weight and need to have a stronger hull to take the bigger generated loads.

Regards

Paulo
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  #5910  
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Re: Vismara 34

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
They are one of the several Italian brands that have been posted on this thread that make top performance small yachts. Have a look back on the thread or look for instance at this ones (that have already been posted):

ICE Yachts srl - Ice Yachts

Mylius Yachts, Barche a vela, Fast Cruiser

ADVANCED - Italian Yachts

Sly Sailing Yachts

B-YACHTS

Solaris by Serigi

ITALIA YACHTS ? Performance and cruising luxury boats

Fast cruising carbon sailing yacht Aureus XV - The Compact Maxi Yacht

ComarYachts

We have also Wally making big yachts:

Wally // Sail

Regards

Paulo
Don't forget NM!
Quote:
Originally Posted by olianta View Post
I didn't mean only the quality of wood. There are more important things that you mentioned in your post regarding the difference between First and Oceanis like hull stiffness due to better materials and technology, and keel material and its attachment, quality and robustness of standing rigging, etc. Running rigging and sails you can always upgrade on any boat. I could ask Oluf to skip all the wood from my boat but didn't because for this type of boat (modern and livable skerry cruiser) the wood outside and inside suits her and adds personality. Besides, I think besides the good looks all that wood on decks and below is functional as well in terms of nonslip and insulation.

Regards
Rumen
Of course I know what you are talking about but in several points I don't think you are right. Standing and running rigging is not that good at a HR (mostly by Selden that also deliver riggings for nearly everyone).
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
What I love in the boat is the hull design, rig and cockpit layout, not the interior.

Regards

Paulo
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