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  #5911  
Old 01-29-2014
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Re: Luxury versus good design and modern building techniques.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
What I said regarding boats needing a stronger and stiffer hull did not refer to Halberg-Rassy or Dufour 410, both non performance cruisers but regarding a comparison between a main market cruiser and a performance one like the Dufour 410 and the Dufour 40e or the Halberg-Rassy 412 and for instance an Arcona 410. The performance boats have bigger rigs, bigger RM for the weight and need to have a stronger hull to take the bigger generated loads.

Regards

Paulo
Actually I am no fan of Halberg Rassy. Currently, in our waters (west Black Sea coast) there are a few Halberg Rassys (from 31 to 43) and I am not impressed by their sailing ability. their owners sail them as daysailors which lacks sense. You cannot have a fun sailing such a boat.

In my post where I was surprised that someone would downgrade from Halberg Rassy to Dufour, I meant that there are other fast both performance and non performance cruisers in the higher quality level, like the Xp/Xc which Dufour 410 or cannot match. And since price is to a big extent a measure of quality, I would say that if I have got used to Hallberg Rassy and want something faster, I will be looking for a new boat within similar price level (X Yachts, Solaris) and would not opt to buy a Dufour 410GL/40e, though I may charter one, (unless my buying ability has downgraded as well). It is like with cars, if you had a Volvo you would not switch to Peugeut, but may be to a BMW if you can afford it (and I take for granted that a current owner of relatively new Halberg Rassy has the means to switch it for a boat in the same price league).

P.S. On the official detailed PDF brochure of Dufour 410 GL they write that the hull is hand laid polyester fibreglass. maybe they can upgrade everything but that will add a lot of cost and may be the boat will not compete that much with other more expensive brands.

Regards
Rumen

Last edited by Faster; 01-29-2014 at 11:02 AM. Reason: fixed quote
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  #5912  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

By the way, I didn't know that in 2013 Dufour Yachts was reorganised through Management buy out of the company from the Bavaria Yacht Group.

Rumen
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  #5913  
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Dufour

Quote:
Originally Posted by olianta View Post
By the way, I didn't know that in 2013 Dufour Yachts was reorganised through Management buy out of the company from the Bavaria Yacht Group.

On the official detailed PDF brochure of Dufour 410 GL they write that the hull is hand laid polyester fibreglass. maybe they can upgrade everything but that will add a lot of cost and may be the boat will not compete that much with other more expensive brands.

Rumen
Yes they were bought by Bavaria 4 years ago as well as Grand Soleil. But contrary to Hanse with Dehler the results were not good and both company are out of Bavaria now. Grand Soleil is connected with the group that makes Sly yachts and Dufour is independent again.

Regarding upgrading yachts it is the new trend now on the middle price mass market boats. Brands like Dehler, Dufour or Salona can purpose you basic relatively inexpensive boats or boats hugely improved (including hull, keel and mast materials) for a much more expensive amount of money. that's a great deal because using the molds and some of the parts for both boats they can save a lot an purpose a basic boat or a produce a very top boat by much less than it would cost a brand new one.

Regards

Paulo
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  #5914  
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Re: Dufour

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Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Yes they were bought by Bavaria 4 years ago as well as Grand Soleil.
Regards

Paulo
Thanks Paulo, as usual you are well informed. I think I read somewhere recently that Grand Soleil may be in trouble because Bavaria "didn't want them any more". It seems that well known boatyards and brands will get extinct if they do not find financial help accompanied by good marketing strategies.
When I was in Denmark two months ago I even heard some rumours that Bavaria were not doing well - they have cut production quantities of new boats and besides they were stuck up with a lot of used boats that they bought out from loyal customers after selling them new ones. Unlike cars (that after some years go for scrap) fibreglass boats don't get destroyed but circulate the used boat market and that market tends to be the biggest competitor of the boatyards. That was another opinion I heard.

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Rumen
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  #5915  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Congratulations, Paulo, your "baby" is now 1000 likes old...
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  #5916  
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The last videos from Capado Circumnavigation:

Thanks Robelz

And their circumnavigation finished at the end of September. They returned to Marseille. The last videos, one in Azores where they even sailed alongside a local regatta and the way back to Europe, another two with them arriving at Marseille.

The boat, a small FOX 10.20 rake the circumnavigation with easiness (they even tool a friend from the States - 3 in the boat). They found out that the lifting keel was of no great use after all and were very satisfied with the boat performance and comfort.

They don't have the money to keep the boat so, as it was planned from the begging, they are going to sell it. It will be an interesting affair for someone that wants a boat prepared for extensive travelling (depending on the price).



Açores from Adrien de Belloy on Vimeo.





Retour Marseille - 21 sept 2013 from Adrien de Belloy on Vimeo.

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  #5917  
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Great sailors are cool

I remember some years ago when Cammas on an upturned trimaran at the middle of the night (in a storm) waited for 9.00AM in France to inform the rescue services, because he did not want to disturb their rest time and now it is Lionel Lemonchois, on a capsized trimaran since Monday that will wait 5 days for the towing team: no problem he says: "I have food and water and my hand is not so badly hurt as I thought." All is well at the middle of the Atlantic on a capsized trimaran. I love those guys
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  #5918  
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Trimaran Banque Populaire VII: Visite 3D

An interesting visit to the ARMEL LE CLÉAC´H boat, the giantt trimaran Banque Populaire VII.

Maxi Trimaran Solo Banque Populaire VII

This boat has a water ballast tank on the back of the boat to better its behavior running downwind with big waves.

Sailing it solo Armel is going to beat the Record of the "la Route des Decouverts". He was 750NM of advance over the actual holder, Joyon. Meantime, as I had posted, he had beaten twice the absolute solo sailor 24 hours record.

We could think this is the top of the crop in what regards maxi racing Oceanic trimarans....well, some think the Price de Bretagne is faster...but he is upside down in the middle of the Atlantic, I would say that it is Spinddrift 2, if well sailed.

Now prepare yourself to be confused: Spindrift 2 is the renamed Banque Populaire V, the boat that with Peyron and his crew is the holder of the absolute circumnavigation record, while Banque Populaire VII, Armel's boat is an older, smaller and slower one, the ex- Grupama, the one that was the previous holder of the circumnavigation record with Cammas (and crew) and the one used by Cammas to win solo the last Route du Rhum.

Contrary to what would be expected the Banque Popular V is a more modern boat that Banque Popular VII. To easily distinguish both on photos (since they are painted the same way), Banque Populaire V is the one with the inverted bows while the VII still has traditional bows.

Here you can see both boats on their original colors: The Groupama and the Banque Populaire V. Look at the size of the man between the two boats...they are huge

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  #5919  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

1000 likes! Yeah!
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  #5920  
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Best off 2013 IRC French Championship

Thanks Dias.

To commemorate a great video, not great quality but great footage:

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