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  #5961  
Old 02-02-2014
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Xc 35

Talking about X-Yachts and Niels Jeppesen, I visited his last work at Dusseldorf boat show, the XC 35 and I have only one word to describe it: Cute

That is a very nice little boat that did not have convinced my wife that prefers the quality of French interior design. Maybe I have a better eye for the quality of building and finish that in this boat is superb:





















There are very few things that I don't like on this boat, being one of them the big cockpit table that is not removable and that takes away a lot of space from the cockpit that being the one of a 35ft boat is not big. One of those folding ones that disappear on the cockpit floor would be a far better solution.

But I really don't understand the market concept of this boat. They say:

(The XC 35) "will become the newest member of the highly praised and awarded long distance Xcruising range. The Xc 35 is designed to offer a smoother voyage than typical performance cruisers, by having a relatively heavier displacement and deeper hull sections. These deeper V-shaped hull sections help the Xc models give a more comfortable motion in large waves, especially when heading upwind under sail or engine."

But then the boat has a beam of 3.52m, similar to other mass market cruising boats has a weight of 6450 kg that is comparable with the one of a Bavaria 36 and the boat has not more rocker than the typical mass production cruiser so I guess that all that talk regarding a superior comfort in sea motion is just talk.

A very nice boat, but who would chose such a small boat to long distance cruising, a boat with limited storage and tankage that cost the price of a more seaworthy and comfortable much bigger boat? The basic price of this little beauty is over 190 000 euros.

Contrary to what they claim this is much more of a nice coastal luxury cruiser than a voyage boat...and I don't believe they will sell many of them. The 38 and the bigger boats on the XC line make a lot more sense in what regards long range cruising in comfort and luxury.
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Last edited by PCP; 02-02-2014 at 10:37 AM.
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  #5962  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Something about X-Yachts: Had a nice chat at the BOOT with a Danish salesman. Asking him about the XP33's performance he said: In fact it was built for IRC but there wasn't any major success in 2013. In ORCi instead it was pretty good...

Nice for those who are looking for an ORCi racer but a hard verdict for Jeppersen...


van de Stad has never made very modern designs, but you can see at Winner Yachts that their design work very well... The 900 is one of the best 9m-boats I know. Perfekt interior, not too heavy, pretty good performance and extremely seaworthy.

Last edited by robelz; 02-02-2014 at 12:07 PM.
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  #5963  
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ORC and rating systems.

Quote:
Originally Posted by robelz View Post
Something about X-Yachts: Had a nice chat at the BOOT with a Danish salesman. Asking him about the XP33's performance he said: In fact it was built for IRC but there wasn't any major success in 2013. In ORCi instead it was pretty good...

Nice for those who are looking for an ORCi racer but a hard verdict for Jeppersen...
That's all about the nonsense regarding rating formulas. For being good in IRC the boat had to be worse than it is (slower), I mean they had to put one of those stupid keels without a torpedo and diminish the RM of the boat. There are specialists in that, I mean tailoring boats for rating formulas but that does not mean they make very good boats, only boats that can beat the formula.

That is particularly stupid with IRS since the formula is a secret one, not like the ORC that is an open one. I hope that in a near future they finish of having the nonsense of having two major ratting systems and unify them.

Meanwhile I find the ORC a much better rating system adapting more the rating to the true performance of the boat and allowing for different ratings in different sea and wind conditions. It allows also a lot more variety in what regards the type of boats that will be able to win, in what regards hull shape and type of boat and has less influence in boat design than the IRC.

Don't believe me, believe Jason Ker:



It is not by accident that some of the best racing Nas have been contributing to the perfection of ORC that I think they see as the one that deserves to be improved.

ORC has a technical committee (ITC) that are the ones that are in charge of adapting each year the rule to make it more true to each boat real performances:

The ITC is composed of nine members and two research associates who are naval architects, measurers, marine engineers and experts in aero and hydrodynamics, and who annually pursue a research agenda to update and improve the Velocity Prediction Program (VPP) used by ORC. This VPP forms the basis for ORC to provide ORC International (ORCi) and ORC Club handicap ratings for over 9000 boats around the world that race using ORC rating systems, and is used at the annual ORCi World Championship, the official ISAF offshore World Championship event.

It is not a big committee and among them they have Jim Schmicker from Farr Yacht design and Jason Ker.

The ORC appears as a perfection of the IMS, based on a more scientific approach. In fact IMS was created by ORC and is still used (in ORC and other rating) as a measurement system. The ORC uses a much improved and complex VPP. The ORC was born in 1969 to create a unique international handicap standard from all pre-existing rating systems. Well, they are still trying

The ORC championships have been increasing in number and participation and they are very important in the Med and in the Baltic. There are actually ORC championships in Italy, Germany, Russia, swede, Finland, Norway, Netherlands, Lithuania, Estonia, Austria, Portugal, Spain, Greece, Croatia, Ecuador, Brazil, Argentina and Korea. Also a Mediterranean and a Central European championship as well as each year a World Championship and a European championship (at a single location and for about a week each).

As you can see the big hole in the picture are the French and the British that stick to IRC as well as the Americans that go mostly with a local rating system (PHRF).

Too technical to post about it here but if you, or anybody wants to know more about it (and it is very interesting) you can look at a ORCI certificate and look at the explanation about all those numbers in their site, a very good and dynamic one:

http://www.avomeripurjehtijat.fi/mit...012/L11514.pdf

ORC - World Leader in Rating Technology

ORC - World Leader in Rating Technology

http://www.orc.org/rules/ORC%20VPP%2...ion%202013.pdf

Regards

Paulo
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Last edited by PCP; 02-02-2014 at 01:17 PM.
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  #5964  
Old 02-02-2014
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

[QU
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricKLYC View Post
I just noticed: 1.000 (one thousand!) "likes".
Congratulations Paulo and all the other faithful contributors to this excellent thread.
Cheers,
Eric
Quote:
Originally Posted by robelz View Post
Congratulations, Paulo, your "baby" is now 1000 likes old...

I have another "baby" with almost as much likes and a lot less views, this one:

Pictures: Those perfect moments

It seems that the guys that like this thread never post there. I would like to see that changed. One of the way of knowing people better is to know what they sail and what they like regarding cruising or racing but another good way is to have a look at it

So, please use a site like photobucket to host the photos (free) and post the photos in the thread (photobucket link). I really enjoy see other member's nice photos, so please contribute for an overall better image of us all, what we see and what we like.

Regards to all,

Paulo
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  #5965  
Old 02-02-2014
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Pelicano Missing In Action

Sorry I have been so quiet these last two weeks. After 10 years with the same firm, I resigned and took a job at different firm. I spent several weeks transitioning my old job to new people, then spent last week getting accustomed to my new job with new people.

One big challenge with the new job is that I am now having to commute from my house to the office. The first day I attempted to drive the 77km and it took 2.5 hours. So I resolved the next day to take the train. But when you factor in the 20 minute drive to the train station, the 70 minute train ride, and the 5 minute shuttle van ride from the train station to the office building, I am still looking at a very long round-trip commute each day. Previously, I have been working from my home every day.

Alas, there is no WiFi internet on the train, and my mobile reception is sketchy over a long stretch of the ride. So not really able to visit this thread going back and forth to work.

However, on the positive side, my office is right next to the water, along the harbour in Stamford, CT. So, of course, now I am thinking that perhaps the time to acquire the performance cruiser may be sooner rather than later, if I can figure out what to do during the winter months. I noticed that there are still quite a few boats in the water, despite the very cold weather (-10C to -20C some days), though the harbour has not frozen. But living aboard in those conditions would not be very much fun. Perhaps it is good enough to be able to live on the boat, near the office, from May until the end of November. Would save money in commuting and allow me to go sailing after work very easily, in summer.

For this reason, I am now looking very long and hard at the Elan 320 (not the 210) and trying to figure out if it's financially viable.

Anyway, I'll do my best to keep up here and contribute. It's my favorite site on the Web.
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  #5966  
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Re: Pelicano Missing In Action

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrPelicano View Post
...
However, on the positive side, my office is right next to the water, along the harbour in Stamford, CT. So, of course, now I am thinking that perhaps the time to acquire the performance cruiser may be sooner rather than later, if I can figure out what to do during the winter months. I noticed that there are still quite a few boats in the water, despite the very cold weather (-10C to -20C some days), though the harbour has not frozen. But living aboard in those conditions would not be very much fun. Perhaps it is good enough to be able to live on the boat, near the office, from May until the end of November. Would save money in commuting and allow me to go sailing after work very easily, in summer.

For this reason, I am now looking very long and hard at the Elan 320 (not the 210) and trying to figure out if it's financially viable.

Anyway, I'll do my best to keep up here and contribute. It's my favorite site on the Web.
So good news. You have a ELan Dealer and a Salona dealer on the States.
I don't know if you had saw the recent posts about the Salona 33 and the Elan 320?

Here they are:

Interesting Sailboats

Interesting Sailboats

I would say that the Salona is a better regatta boat and the Elan a better solo one. Both has dealers in the US and the Salona 33 is going to be at the Miami boat show. If I was you I would say to both dealers that you are undecided between the two boats and that you are going to race the boat. A motivated dealer can really bring the prices down

Regards

Paulo
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  #5967  
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Chines and X yachts

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Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
I love that new X Yacht.
No chines?...
Bob, back on chines and on X-yachts. The new big passagemaker has not but the last performance cruiser, the 33 is the first one with chines. The one before that, the Xp 38 has not. It seems that Niels Jeppesen is just starting to use them. Some of the French Na use them already for years.

The Xp 33:



The Xp 38:



Regards

Paulo
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  #5968  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

This year's Route du Rhum will be hell of a race: Even Spindrift 2 will be on the track, raced be Yann Guichard - solo of course!

Remember: It is the worlds largest and fastest multihull...
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  #5969  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by robelz View Post
This year's Route du Rhum will be hell of a race: Even Spindrift 2 will be on the track, raced be Yann Guichard - solo of course!

Remember: It is the worlds largest and fastest multihull...
this 131 ft monster which holds the 24 hrs record with 908 nm and previously known as banc populaire V will be sailed singlehanded?
honestly - i have to see that in order to be able to believe it...
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  #5970  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

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Originally Posted by capt vimes View Post
this 131 ft monster which holds the 24 hrs record with 908 nm and previously known as banc populaire V will be sailed singlehanded?
honestly - i have to see that in order to be able to believe it...
Spindrift Racing | Official website | Maxi Trimaran, MOD70 & Decision 35 ? The Spindrift racing series : ?40 metres solo? Episode 1 : Making the decision

Eat this!
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