Originally Posted by bobperry
You could be right Paulo. I really know little about Bavaria's market target.
I think you make a very good point in differentiating chines for control and chines for boat speed. I remain a bit skeptical about the ability to push a chined cruiser hard uipwind. But perhaps you are not supposed to push one of these boat hard upwind. I would have to sail one myself to see what happens after that chine is immersed. While that distinct "shoulder" in the stability curve has its benefits I think there is also a down side to it when the boat is pushed beyond the shoulder.
Even on a high powered boat chines can help control. I raced a Tasar dinghy for a few years and it had chines. Off the wind the Tasar would plane quickly and effortlessly. One on a plane the Tasar became very stable and was very easy to drive. The round bilge Laser is not very stable on a plane.
I know that on a high powered boats chines can help control. I am not sure if they can improve speed out of the one a better control of the boat would provide.
Regarding cruising boats and chines you cannot put all on the same bag. Even in what regards main mass market cruisers some of them (with chines) have very different hulls and sail characteristics.
From the Sense and Oceanis Beneteau line probably, taking away the new 38, the 41 is the more "sportive" and even so it is not a boat to be "pushed" upwind. You would not gain nothing except increasing drag and loss of speed putting its chine immersed.
Even on very fast performance boats like the Pogo 12.50 you don't push the boat upwind like a narrow boat. You would gain nothing in going as much as the boat can go upwind with a lot of heel. On boats like that you go a bit more out of the wind at a superior speed and in the end the VMG is about the same as a more traditional performance cruiser like the First 40 for example. Downwind and on a beam reach the Pogo will be faster.
Back to main market cruisers, if you compare the Jeanneau 409 with the Oceanis 41 you will find out that they have both chines but very different hulls and that the Jeanneau can take much more heel upwind and point a bit better. On the Benetau line if you want a better performance boat and one that points better you have the First line. On the Dufour the same, you have the performance line. The Jeanneau has only a line and perhaps is why the boat is an overall more balanced sailing boat.
Not saying that the Jeanneau is a better cruising boat than the Oceanis: Sailing decently, including upwind with little heel and a maximum of interior and cockpit space can be and certainly is what many sailors would prefer even if I would prefer the better sailing performance of the Jeanneau 409...but then I would prefer a Beneteau First to a Jeanneau. Different courses for different horses
Some pictures and movies that will help to understand what I am talking about and the differences between these two different mass production cruisers with chines.