Interesting Sailboats - Page 603 - SailNet Community
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post #6021 of 6763 Old 02-05-2014 Thread Starter
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

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Originally Posted by bobperry View Post


No talk needed.
More of the same?

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Paulo


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post #6022 of 6763 Old 02-05-2014 Thread Starter
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

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Originally Posted by robelz View Post
38? Shorthanded Cruiser-Racer | Mills Design

So you think the chines are just a popular gag made by MM?


Very nice design, but one more that sold is soul to fashion

"A chined high-performance Cruiser-Racer optimised for a couple....The resulting design would has high initial stability without crew on the rail making it a pleasure to shorthand and cruise, and offers exceptional reaching performance, important to the non-racing cruisers and offshore racers alike."

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post #6023 of 6763 Old 02-05-2014 Thread Starter
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Ragtime

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Originally Posted by capt vimes View Post
....
paulo - just kidding, don't take it seriously...
...]
sorry if I was too harsh but I was pissed with the rudeness that was creeping on this thread. I try not to make a point on my opinions and try to adapt them to facts and reality. I am here to share but most of all to learn with you all.

One of the best things regarding this thread is that it has joined very interesting and knowledgeable people, sailors that are not only interested in boat design but that actually sail or race top boats that are in the edge of cruising and racing development. Their opinions, knowledge and participation has permitted us all to have a better understanding of the advantages or disadvantages associated with new sailing design developments.

Regarding Ragtime, a truly fantastic 62ft boat for its time, designed in New Zealand by Jonh Spencer, its hard chines have also to due with the material used to built it: Plywood. If those chines were slightly rounded, like they are on the last monohul America's cup boats, I am not sure if the overall performance would be better, probably yes and almost certainly better upwind.

"Ragtime began in 1964 as a yacht named Infidel and eventually made her way to California after being excluded from races in New Zealand because of her light construction. She is built of plywood and has hard chines as a consequence. The Long Beach Syndicate made history as Ragtime was first to finish in the 1973 Transpac."

Here you have some great movies with that boat:

from MILES ANDERSON on Vimeo.







Regards

Paulo


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post #6024 of 6763 Old 02-05-2014
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Re: Chines and rude self centered opinions

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Regarding your participation on this thread you are welcome if you abandon that attitude kind off : I am the one I know it all and other opinions or other ways of designing sailboats (even if they perform better than yours) are wrong and the boats just fashionable or plain wrong. And also abandon the rudeness that kind of self centered vision implies and that you express with crude words. For that type of rude talk, bitter discussion and insulting language you have other threads, not this one.
Paulo, I don't think Mr.Perry is patronizing us, neither that his language is rude and insulting (the exception being the qualification "stupid" regarding Eric's opinion at the end of post 6029 just before the text in mandarin). It is obvious that Mr.Perry has strong yopinions on the issue of chines (like you do) and he expresses them in a more straightforward and less explanatory manner. I believe that your last sentence of your quoted post "For that type of rude talk, bitter discussion and insulting language you have other threads, not this one" will not benefit this thread if Mr. Perry decides not to post anymore here. I will miss him and I believe I will not be the only one. He is a well known designer and I do not accept the depreciating view that this qualification is relevant only to the history of yacht design.

Regards
Rumen
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post #6025 of 6763 Old 02-05-2014
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Thanks Rumen. I appreciate your support. I'll watch the thread because I like being kept updated on the new boats. But I'll stay quiet. There isn't any more I need to say. Paulo's words are fine. He obviously feels threatened. I didn't intend that. No offense taken.

Please visit my blog. It's fun to read.


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post #6026 of 6763 Old 02-05-2014 Thread Starter
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Re: Chines and rude self centered opinions

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Originally Posted by olianta View Post
Paulo, I don't think Mr.Perry is patronizing us, neither that his language is rude and insulting (the exception being the qualification "stupid" regarding Eric's opinion at the end of post 6029 just before the text in mandarin). It is obvious that Mr.Perry has strong yopinions on the issue of chines (like you do) and he expresses them in a more straightforward and less explanatory manner. I believe that your last sentence of your quoted post "For that type of rude talk, bitter discussion and insulting language you have other threads, not this one" will not benefit this thread if Mr. Perry decides not to post anymore here. I will miss him and I believe I will not be the only one. He is a well known designer and I do not accept the depreciating view that this qualification is relevant only to the history of yacht design.

Regards
Rumen
I don't have strong opinions about chines. I am interesting in facts and in why the best world's designers are using them in racing boats and cruising boats and also why on pure racing regatta top crewed boats there seems to be mixed opinions about its effectiveness.

I guess that call my view about chines as myopic is close to stupid and if not insulting his ways are rude and express the opinion of someone that thinks that knows more about it not only than me but more than all other top Nas that use them in cruising boats.

Regarding this : "I do not accept the depreciating view that this qualification is relevant only to the history of yacht", I certainly had not said that. I said that personally I have no particular interest in his recent work, that contrary to older one is not pushing the boundaries of sailing development.

His opinion and his views on the subject regarding the use of modern chines in cruising boast (fashionable as he sees them) have the relevance of coming from a NA but they are not more relevant than the ones from all the top contemporary Nas that design them on their cruising boats.

It is not about Mr Perry opinion, but about the way he expresses it and the way he wants to convince all that his opinion is more relevant than other's opinions, namely regarding all those top Na that use them on their cruising boats and also with the rudeness he expresses it.

Regards

Paulo
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Last edited by PCP; 02-05-2014 at 09:45 AM.
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Re: Chines and rude self centered opinions

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Originally Posted by PCP View Post
It is not about Mr Perry opinion, but about the way he expresses it and the way he wants to convince all that his opinion is more relevant than other's opinions, namely regarding all those top Na that use them on their cruising boats and also with the rudeness he expresses it.

Regards

Paulo
As far as I know Bob Perry was the only NA actively participating in this thread (and may be we have lost him as contributor, which is a pity). The fact that Bob will follow the your thread means that "myopic" was not used in the sense of stupid as you get it. I believe Bob never meant that, otherwise he would not follow a thread run by someone whom he thinks stupid. As I stated yesterday, Paulo, you are very smart to provide lots of valuable information and to raise issues alongside the many interesting boats you post about, so let's not overreact when polemics gets hot.
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Sq 25

Robelz posted about it recently and there are more posts about the boat when it was in design phase.

The boat result of a design competition won by Marc-Oliver von Ahlen that designed a wonderful boat, very versatile and one that can be made in many keel configurations. A modern design with very good sail performance taking into account its fantastic interior for a 25ft boat. A true coastal or lake cruiser with a comfortable interior that even has a true head. Amazing boat:

























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Benetau Oceanis 38

The Oceanis 38 and the Dehler 38 made were both boats that made the unanimity in what regards sailboat contests on both sides of the Atlantic.

We have plenty of images of the Dehler 38 sailing but not so many regarding the Oceanis. Here are two videos that shows the boat sailing with light to medium wind. Pity we don't have any with the boat sailing downwind with strong wind. the European boat testers were surprised with the stability and boat performance of the boat on that situation, the one where the boat excels.

Good all around sailing performance, being the comparative worse one on very light winds and an innovative and versatile interior is what made this boat a winner.





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Re: Interesting Sailboats

it seems that SQ 25 will be a luxury trailer sailor. I wonder where that bulbed keel will carried and how complicated will be to install it when launching of the trailer. It reminds me of the bigger sister of my current Etap21s (26s), which I was considering to buy back in 2009. I am happy I did not. I think that maxi trailer sailor cruisers will be less considered by potential buyers because of the difficulty in launching and retrieving them and those over jammed European roads and marinas. Mine is a trailer sailer with shallow draft and even in that case I have moved it only once to sail it to a different location. It would be much easier to charter a boat than to move your trailer sailer in more distant waters. Besides, this one will not be cheap. I also wonder what will be its displacement. The Manufacturer will produce also the Comfortinas and power boats.

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