Originally Posted by bobperry
I do not believe chines belong on every Mom and Pop boat.
If you guys need chines or training wheels so you can sail comfortably that's wonderful.
I am not interested in handicapping my own design with training wheels. I wil gladly let someone else design for the beginners who don't like to heel. If you need chines to be in fashion then great. Be in fashion. We know how long fashion lasts. Still got those Elton John shoes?
Pretty contradicting argument:
First you say that chines are not for cruising boats than you say that they are for beginner sailors that need help in controlling the boat (admitting that they have a relevant paper in boat control) and then say that they are only for fashion
Fact is that by what you say and giving your comparison of chines on a cruising boat with training heels, they have a relevant paper in cruising boats that tend to be bigger and faster while continuing to be solo sailed or sailed with a little help from the wife.
I donít care if you use chimes or not in your designs but saying that they handicap the performance of a cruising boat is not only contradictory with what you say as it makes no sense: If they are only fashionable and serves for nothing how they can handicap the performance of a cruiser? Besides facts shows that almost all racing boats designed today for solo racing use them so in fact that better control even if it results in a slightly loss of performance (and that is disputable) can in reality make the racer go faster and with better reason will make a cruising boat go faster.
Facts show that a solo racer will benefit from chines in what regards performance added by the superior easiness of sailing and you think that a cruiser, sailed with less experienced and also short crew, will not also benefit in performance from that superior easiness? Or do you think that all that design solo racers with chine do that also for fashionable reasons? That does not make sense since they are the ones that design the winning boats.
And what is this all about?
Originally Posted by bobperry
I think you guys are selling chines. You act like car salesmen selling a tacked on spoiler. Are the chines built in China? Is that why you call them "chines"? I'll say it slowly this time:I have designed many boats with chines.
I have designed many boats with chines. This is my business. I am not a hobbyist.
I understand chines. I understand chines. I have owned chined boats. I have owned chined boats.Ö
Your view is myopic. Ö
I rarely shower. I smell like my dogs, I wear woolen shirts. My hair looks funny. I own two pair of shoes. I'm not Euro.
(I do have an amazing, very expensive hi-fi system probably cost as much as your yacht)
But I sure do like exchanging ideas with you. You are an amazing reference for whatever is new in European boats.
Tsia chien Shin nien qui lerÖGong hay fat choy
I donít need you patronizing me. I am interested in facts and fact is that you design nice looking boats and had in the past a relevant paper in what regards evolution of sailing boats but I am nor particularly interested in what you do now. Regarding chines I have read several opinions from NA that work in their development regarding their use in top racing solo boats, your opinion is one more but I would say that one thing is to use chines occasionally other thing is to develop them in a modern way in a racing context. Obviously I am far more interested on the opinions and on the use that those NAs are giving to them and in the way they are using what they have learned in racing development to improve their cruising designs, than on the opinion of someone that think they are a fashion.
More than in opinions and theory I am interested in facts and analyzing them. Facts show that modern chines are used by all top solo racing sailboats designs and are used for several functions. Facts show that those designers, the ones that have more experience with modern chines, started to use them also in their cruising boats, mainly to make them easier to sail and therefore faster for the average crewed sailboat and to all short crew sailboats. These are facts and are evident.
More than what is evident already I am interested in the frontier in what regards modern use of chines and what is not evident yet: If a regatta racing boat maximized for overall performance with a full crew will benefit with the use or modern chines or not. That is the interesting subject because reality shows that the best designers, contrary to solo racing boats and in some extent cruising, are divided about it in what regards performance and some are using them others not. I donít care if they use chines or not I am interested in the effectiveness of them (or not) in what regards pure performance in a boat sailed by a big and expert crew.
Regarding your participation on this thread you are welcome if you abandon that attitude kind off : I am the one I know it all and other opinions or other ways of designing sailboats (even if they perform better than yours) are wrong and the boats just fashionable or plain wrong. And also abandon the rudeness that kind of self centered vision implies and that you express with crude words. For that type of rude talk, bitter discussion and insulting language you have other threads, not this one.