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  #6041  
Old 02-05-2014
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Re: Chines and rude self centered opinions

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
It is not about Mr Perry opinion, but about the way he expresses it and the way he wants to convince all that his opinion is more relevant than other's opinions, namely regarding all those top Na that use them on their cruising boats and also with the rudeness he expresses it.

Regards

Paulo
As far as I know Bob Perry was the only NA actively participating in this thread (and may be we have lost him as contributor, which is a pity). The fact that Bob will follow the your thread means that "myopic" was not used in the sense of stupid as you get it. I believe Bob never meant that, otherwise he would not follow a thread run by someone whom he thinks stupid. As I stated yesterday, Paulo, you are very smart to provide lots of valuable information and to raise issues alongside the many interesting boats you post about, so let's not overreact when polemics gets hot.
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  #6042  
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Sq 25

Robelz posted about it recently and there are more posts about the boat when it was in design phase.

The boat result of a design competition won by Marc-Oliver von Ahlen that designed a wonderful boat, very versatile and one that can be made in many keel configurations. A modern design with very good sail performance taking into account its fantastic interior for a 25ft boat. A true coastal or lake cruiser with a comfortable interior that even has a true head. Amazing boat:























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  #6043  
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Benetau Oceanis 38

The Oceanis 38 and the Dehler 38 made were both boats that made the unanimity in what regards sailboat contests on both sides of the Atlantic.

We have plenty of images of the Dehler 38 sailing but not so many regarding the Oceanis. Here are two videos that shows the boat sailing with light to medium wind. Pity we don't have any with the boat sailing downwind with strong wind. the European boat testers were surprised with the stability and boat performance of the boat on that situation, the one where the boat excels.

Good all around sailing performance, being the comparative worse one on very light winds and an innovative and versatile interior is what made this boat a winner.



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  #6044  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

it seems that SQ 25 will be a luxury trailer sailor. I wonder where that bulbed keel will carried and how complicated will be to install it when launching of the trailer. It reminds me of the bigger sister of my current Etap21s (26s), which I was considering to buy back in 2009. I am happy I did not. I think that maxi trailer sailor cruisers will be less considered by potential buyers because of the difficulty in launching and retrieving them and those over jammed European roads and marinas. Mine is a trailer sailer with shallow draft and even in that case I have moved it only once to sail it to a different location. It would be much easier to charter a boat than to move your trailer sailer in more distant waters. Besides, this one will not be cheap. I also wonder what will be its displacement. The Manufacturer will produce also the Comfortinas and power boats.

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  #6045  
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The new Ker designed McConaghy 50

I had already talked about this boat that is very powerful and super fast but I found out a movie about it. Pity that has a very bad definition but shows up an unexpected Ker facet: the light control on the interior and plenty of it. For me that's what makes this boat stand out from the other Ker cruiser racers, this one has an amazing lighting and that can has the potential for a very nice interior.

Looking at the boat we would say: Another very fast cruiser racer with a lousy and dark interior, since the height of the cabin is very low. Not this one is different in a very creative way. Without losing the sail advantages of a very low cabin this boat has an interior with lots of light and that makes it, as that cockpit table arrangement, more of a performance cruiser. Have a look how the illumination works:

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  #6046  
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Re: More on Mills and Chines

Interestingly, Mills drew chines on his design for the VSA 45 IRC racer, as well as on the 38-foot short-handed cruiser-racer. However, in his brief comments on the IRC boat, he doesn't mention the import of including chines.





While I haven't weighed in on the heated exchange with Bob Perry, I confess to having been a bit puzzled by his reference to his conversation with Mills on this topic.

Here's what Mills says about the 38: "This chined high performance cruiser-racer combines a modern comfortable interior with the most visible and useful Open design type traits to create a very versatile, fast, and powerful shorthanded performer."

He then goes on to observe: "The resulting design would have high initial stability without crew on the rail making it a pleasure to shorthand and cruise, and offers exceptional reaching performance, important to the non-racing cruisers and offshore racers alike."

This is essentially the case Paulo has been making from the start, yet somehow Mills didn't mention these points to Bob in the course of their conversation on the topic? I find that hard to believe.

What Mills doesn't comment on is whether or not chines are of value within the IRC framework - i.e., crewed buoy / short-distance racing, with a relatively equal balance of upwind and downwind sailing. I'm going to go out on a limb and conjecture that he would probably say the same thing Paulo has been saying: "Under IRC, fully crewed boats, competently sailed within their design parameters, don't really benefit from chines."

And my experience racing against the Ker 43 "Ptarmigan" (now "Otra Vez") at Block Island Race Week in 2011 under IRC would seem to confirm that. In light-to-moderate conditions, on windward-leeward course, "Ptarmigan" was unbeatable, in the hands of a very experienced racing crew (I was aboard a custom Schumacher 50 - we were only competitive against "Ptarmigan" in really light breeze, upwind and VMG running). "Ptarmigan" was also very fast in the 2012 Newport-Bermuda Race, finishing first in IRC 9 (only 6 hours behind the fastest TP52 in elapsed time - and probably would have done better but apparently lost all their instruments in what was a very wet and windy race). Interestingly, the Carkeek HP 40 "Decision", which sports a very mild chine quite a way aft, beat "Ptarmigan" by 5 hours on elapsed, and also corrected out ahead by the same in Division "8" IRC, beating two TP52s in the process.

All this to say that I find myself aligned with Mills and Paulo over Bob on the chines topic. I'm looking forward to an opporunity to sail Rob Humphrey's Elan 320 design and form my own opinion.
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  #6047  
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Lionel lemonchois

I had posted about him recently. If you don't remember maybe you remember the sailor that was on the middle of the Atlantic on a capsized giant multihull?

Yes that was him. That was 8 days ago and he is still there waiting two more days. On this cold and hard winter, living upside down, he waits patiently the rescue team that is going to put again the trimaran on its feet before towing it. Tough these solo sailors

As you may recall he was trying to beat a record while things went wrong. He was interviewed and has told the story (translated):


"The boat was close hauled in 16-17 knots of wind. The wind was easing off. I was under full mainsail and jib. I decided to go to rest inside. I had not done that for several days. The wind returned. When I shocked the sails they did not went lose. The butts had dried around winches and remained stiff. It took a little time to let them, a few seconds...and then it was too late. A stupid and fatal accident.

... As there was a bit of swell and I was afraid that the broken mast could damage the mast from below. Quickly, I went into the water to cut the mast out in order to preserve the platform. There is nothing under the boat. The mast was not recoverable, it broke in two during capsize."


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Last edited by PCP; 02-05-2014 at 06:23 PM.
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  #6048  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Pelic ano:
I have known Mark Mills since he interned in my office years ago. And no, you do not know what went on in the conversation.

" I find myself aligned with Mills and Paulo over Bob "
Can you explain to me exactly what my position on chines is?
I hope you have been reading carefully.
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  #6049  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Hi Bob -

Am aware of your lengthy and close relationship with Mark, of which you have reminded us on several occasions. Clearly he learned a great deal during his internship with you, and I'm sure it has contributed to his success.

I was referring, specifically, to your "training wheel" analogy and "fashion" (i.e., cosmetic) references. My sense is that Mills would never use chines for either reason, and he does choose to use them, justifying the choice, at least with respect to the 38', in precisely the terms that Paulo has been using, with respect to Open class racers and shorthanded sailing.

That's pretty much my take on the extended dialogue between you and Paulo on this topic. I'd be more engaged, myself, but the friggin' New England winter is totally disrupting my commutes back and forth to work, and cutting into my quality forum time.

Best regards,

MrP
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Luffe 3.6

I think Pelicano was quite clear in what he said and explained well why he said it. That discussion is finished and I don't want this thread to become like that one on steel boats, bitter and nasty.

Changing subject and I hope for good, a very nice narrow modern boat without chines. Quite classical on its lines but also modern in the hull design with the beam pulled back, the Luffe 3.6.








We had talked already about it but a nice movie had turned out with Oluf, its designer at the tiller.

Sailing the new Luffe 3.6 from Olav Taraldsen on Vimeo.

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Last edited by PCP; 02-05-2014 at 07:09 PM.
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