Interesting Sailboats - Page 609 - SailNet Community
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post #6081 of 6763 Old 02-09-2014 Thread Starter
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
"I am sorry, but you obviously did not get my point."
That happens around here.
I am a bit tired about your insinuations enigmatic phrases and posts that mean nothing. There are other threads for that. Here I want objectivity and clarity.

If you want to say something say it! This statement after Vimes post considering that KuKa-light after all is not a very light boat, even an extraordinary light one, say so.

If you consider that a racing boat that has as given dimensions: Length 12.80 mt, beam 4.60 mt, Draft 3.50 mt, Displacement 3200 kg is not very light, say so and explain why and stop insinuating things.

Regards

Paulo


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post #6082 of 6763 Old 02-09-2014 Thread Starter
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Re: Kuka-light is really very light:

Quote:
Originally Posted by capt vimes View Post
...

What are you talking about?
The didi 40cr is just 10 cm shorter, has less beam but more freeboard and superstructure...
...
And now go back to the homemade wooden boat and see that this nice little thing has so much weight in its keel and is still only 800 kg heavier... Strange hmmmm?
If you cannot see the difference in hull area between a boat with a 3.4m beam and one with 4.6m beam hull and the influence that has on the the boat weight (even if they are built identically) what can I say?

I have told you that a top 40 class race boat, with a similar hull ( not a carbon boat but an infused one and built as light as possible, carbon masts and all, weights 4500kg and that means 30% more. If you cannot understand that in what regards weight on comparable sized race boats 30% is HUGE...What can I say?

http://www.akilaria.com/Akilaria%20R...ochure%202.pdf

If you do not understand that if using plywood, epoxy and aluminum masts it was possible to build a lighter class 40 (than with infusion, cored hull and epoxy resins), all class 40 would be built that way...what can I say?

Regards

Paulo


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post #6083 of 6763 Old 02-09-2014 Thread Starter
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Comet 62

And surprise... surprise, it is a Cat

I knew already that they were going to propose cats on their line and I was very interested and curious. Well my curiosity was satisfied in Dusseldorf and beautiful boats they are, designed by Marc Lombard. They have there models of the two first ones, a 62 and a 37. Let's look at the 62 :





And cats will not be the only news on Comet (Comar shipyard), they will be Carbon boats. I had already heard some comments coming from Comar about building carbon boats with the proper tools and techniques not to be a very dificult or even considerably more expensive than building epoxy vinylester infused boats. Well I can only hope that will not only be true but also that they will decide to expand that technique and materials to the monohull line

They say about the new cat line:

"Comar’s 2014 begins flying the Cat banner “because they are comfortable, easy to handle and control and because we are keen on the idea of creating a multihull with a fast and aggressive profile yet maintaining the comfort below deck. We noticed an affinity in Marc Lombard’s designs with the present Comet range in production and hence collaboration with Marc seemed a natural choice for the start-up of this new range which, starting with a Comet Cat 62 will then move on to an 82’ and a 37’ "


I will hope that affinity from Comar with Marc Lombard will mean also that the next Comet Monohulls will be designed by Marc. I cannot wait to see a Comet monohull design by him. Comet monohulls stands for performance cruising and also regatta and offshore racing and now that short crew racing has becoming bigger and bigger in IRC, a very polivalent boat, able to be good at performance cruising, good at short crew racing and good at full crew racing makes all the sense. Marc Lombard is one of the few Na that design such a boat, competitive in several sectors.

Data for COMET 62 CAT: LOA: 18.97m LWL: 18.80m BOA: 10.23m Beam in between axes hull: 7.20m Forward freeboard: 2.20m Light Displacement: 17.00t Light CE Displacement: 18.50t Full Loaded Displacement: 25.00t Draught (board down): 3.58m Draught (board up): 1.62m Total height / Dwl: 28.70m mast Height: 26.40m Sail Area - Main: 130 mē - Solent selftacking: 74.5 mē - Furling genoa: 102 mē - Code 0: 130 mē - Staysail: 60 mē - gennaker: 160 mē - Spi assy: 300 mē Diesel Engines 2 x 75 HP Fresh water tanks: 2 x 600l Gas Oil Tanks: 2 x 300l carbon spars, PBO rigging and Spectra Construction Composite sandwich carbon / epoxy (Hull / Deck / Main bulkheads) crossbeam construction: composite carbon epoxy Accomodation, floorboards, furnatures: sandwich wood.


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post #6084 of 6763 Old 02-09-2014
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Chill Paulo. You are not the Pope.

Please visit my blog. It's fun to read.


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post #6085 of 6763 Old 02-09-2014 Thread Starter
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
Chill Paulo. You are not the Pope.
It seems that you have nothing of relevant to say regarding the Kuka-Light to be a very light boat and continue to post meaningless things.

Yes I am not the Pope. I thought it was obvious to all.

Regards

Paulo


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post #6086 of 6763 Old 02-09-2014
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

This is a public forum. People can voice their opinions here. That's what makes it fun. Diversity! Everyone has a say. It's the way the internet works. It's not your private sand box. The last time I looked, you don't make the rules.

What makes it fun for me is the diversity. I like to hear a wide range of ideas and opinions. I certainly do not need anyone dictating to me who I should think. I watch sports programs on TV with the sound muted. I can see what is happening. I can figure it out for myself. I sure as hell don't need a TV guy who has never played professional sports in his life explaining to me what happened and just why it happened.

I read all the posts. Sometimes I choose to comment, sometimes I don't. Do you have a problem with that? I like this thread. It is informative. Show me the boats. I can form my own opinions.

Please visit my blog. It's fun to read.


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post #6087 of 6763 Old 02-09-2014 Thread Starter
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Tan 66

Since we are talking about new big cats we should talk about the Tan 66, a VPLP design and built by Marsaudon Composites.







A very interesting interview with the designer:



A not less interesting interview with the builder, a top carbon specialist, Marsaudon Composite:



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post #6088 of 6763 Old 02-09-2014
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Sir Perry,

This forum is about interesting sailboats. You’re a NA, so I appreciate your expert opinion. About interesting sailboats.

Not about the way Paulo runs this excellent thread. With respect. And mannered.
Nor about your hifi. Or your dogs. Or your personal hygiene. There I’m the expert. I’m a urologist.

It's not about you. It's about interesting sailboats.

Regards,

Stupid
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post #6089 of 6763 Old 02-09-2014
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Point taken Eric.
I have personal hygene issues all under control but I'll confer with you if the need arises.
For now I'll just treat this like a public forum.
I enjoy the dialogue. When it is a dialogue.

Please visit my blog. It's fun to read.


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post #6090 of 6763 Old 02-09-2014 Thread Starter
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
...This is a public forum. People can voice their opinions here....
I read all the posts. Sometimes I choose to comment, sometimes I don't. Do you have a problem with that? ...
No I don't have a problem with you commenting about the posts and subjects that are being discussed. I am interested in that. I have problems with meaningless posts, unfounded comments or a rude way to address me or other members and I have a problem with you considering that your view on a subject is more valid than others:

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
Quoting Vimes "I am sorry, but you obviously did not get my point."...
That happens around here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
..

That commenty is just plain silly.
..

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
Chill Paulo. You are not the Pope.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
.. Paulo... obviously feels threatened. ..
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
I think you guys are selling chines. You act like car salesmen selling a tacked on spoiler. Are the chines built in China? Is that why you call them "chines"?

I'll say it slowly this time:
I have designed many boats with chines.
Once again:
I have designed many boats with chines.

This is my business. I am not a hobbyist.
I understand chines.
I understand chines

I have owned chined boats.
I have owned chined boats

...

Tsia chien
Shin nien qui ler
....
That is a really stupid statement. ...
Tsai chien
Gong hay fat choy
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
...
Get real Paulo. ....
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
Paulo:
You don't get it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
How do you "dispense" the chines? Rules don't let you throw things overboard while racing.
" Hey wait a minute,,,,Didn't you guys have chines at the beginning of the race?"
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
...

One problem in this thread is to continue to look at this like a 2 dimensional problem. ..

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
I love that new X Yacht.
No chines?
They must be behind the times or not know what they are doing.
Or, really know what they are doing. Yes, I think that's it.

Ha!
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
Paulo:
The information is all in my last post. Read slowly.

The boat review was the Sun Odessey349. Don't recall the publication but it was English. I think they generally do the best and most honest job. ....

Clear?
(It was not the Sun Odyssey 349 but the Dufour 410, as later Bob Perry remember correctly)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
.....

I rarely shower. I smell like my dogs, I wear woolen shirts. My hair looks funny. I own two pair of shoes. I'm not Euro.

(I do have an amazing, very expensive hi-fi system probably cost as much as your yacht)....
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
My mother's maiden name was Nanelli. Does that help?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
The term "skiff" comes from the name of the inventor, Archilbald W. Skiff.
(Bob Perry invented that one)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
Its Wednesday already and I haven't used either of those words yet this week.
Yes, this is a Public forum and this is a public thread but I have being pretty much running this thread. It is not about my opinion but I have been moderating the discussion here, on this thread.

All that are around, viewing it and contributing and made this one of the most popular boat thread on the net know that I try to have an open mind and accept (and thanks) all well founded contributions. They know that I try to integrate all contributions on the body of knowledge and information that this thread contains. If they would not find that way certainly they would stop following this thread.

However I will not allow anybody to have the privilege to be right, just because that's the way he thinks about it, being it a racer, a NA or a cruiser.

Your particular opinion will always be heard with attention, particularly because you are a NA but we are not designing boats and we certainly will not retain your opinion over the opinion of other NAs specially when they are contributing actively to the evolution of sail boat design, as you have done brilliantly in the past.

This thread is about interesting sailboats with a particular focus on the present and the future.

New tendencies and the state of the art in what regards new contributions to sailboat design presented and used by the most significant contemporary NA is of the essence as well to understand them and why they work, since most of them have being proved in racing by those same NAs before using them on their cruising sailboats, many of them mass produced and sailed by thousands.

Off course, Your particular opinion about yacht design, the way you see it and your present work will be of interest to all and I, as I am sure all, are very happy to have you as a member, but regarding that I second what has been proposed already and think it would be very interesting if you open a Bob Perry thread, posted and discussed there your views and your work, instead of doing that on a Steel's boat thread or here.

Of course, you will always be very welcomed here in what regards discussing subjects or boats, but not in this spirit: "I have designed many boats with chines. This is my business. I am not a hobbyist."

On this threads we don't have Popes. You don't need to be an Artist to be a an Art critic. In fact the best Art critics are not Artists and almost never an Artist is on a position to have an overall view of the Art Panorama neither he is on the best position to judge what are the more valid contributions to the contemporary art culture. He is to focused in what he is doing and obviously he thinks that what he is doing is the best and the right way to go.

I believe that is valid also in what regards the contemporary Yacht design Panorama, the subject of this thread.

I don't take pleasure with this kind of posts or discussions so please participate on this thread regarding topics and out of a paternalistic approach. If you do that I am quite sure we all will enjoy and appreciate your contribution.

Regards

Paulo
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Last edited by PCP; 02-09-2014 at 08:30 PM.
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