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  #601  
Old 01-25-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterSailer View Post
I'm looking for small boats but 25 is too small. My minimum lenth would be 26 ft and my maximum would be 35.
PeterSailer, you’re looking at a perfect size range for my taste! It gives you lots of alternatives in good boats. A caveat: it is more like 26 ft in new boats and 35ft in old ones – the old shapes give so much less living space for the same length. I exaggerate only slightly. My dream boat was once a 33 footer, and I wonder if I might not try that again

You mention cockpits, and I apologise for ranting about a hobby horse: cockpit hatches! Boats are often given a clean bill of health as long as the hatch is secure when closed, but I could wish for a great deal more inovation here. The issue is “keeping it closed.” It ought to be not just possible but very convenient to enter the cockpit and close the hatch, or you will encourage bad habits. No more of those slide-in perspex covers, please! People get lazy, they don’t close hatches unless it is easy as pie, and they never anticipate being pooped.
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  #602  
Old 01-25-2011
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If you're talking about the companionway, there is nothing wrong with dropboards, if the cockpit is properly designed and has a proper bridgedeck built in.

I had the problem of my crew leaving the bottom dropboard out for convenience, and since the cockpit of my boat originally had only a three inch-high companionway coaming, rather than a proper bridgedeck, a lot of water that entered the cockpit, ended up down below. At the beginning of the second season I had my boat I built and installed a proper bridgedeck which eliminated the bottom dropboard. Now it isn't an issue, even in pretty nasty conditions.

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Originally Posted by OsmundL View Post
...You mention cockpits, and I apologise for ranting about a hobby horse: cockpit hatches! Boats are often given a clean bill of health as long as the hatch is secure when closed, but I could wish for a great deal more inovation here. The issue is “keeping it closed.” It ought to be not just possible but very convenient to enter the cockpit and close the hatch, or you will encourage bad habits. No more of those slide-in perspex covers, please! People get lazy, they don’t close hatches unless it is easy as pie, and they never anticipate being pooped.
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  #603  
Old 01-25-2011
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The only probleme with drop board is when the companion way has a V shape, so the bord only have to be raised 1 inch in order to fall out of their slot, other then that, I think their pretty fail/fool proof and simple as hell.
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  #604  
Old 01-25-2011
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Originally Posted by PeterSailer View Post
The only probleme with drop board is when the companion way has a V shape, so the bord only have to be raised 1 inch in order to fall out of their slot, other then that, I think their pretty fail/fool proof and simple as hell.
Not true...depends on the design. The companionway on my boat is tapered, but the drop boards need to be raised at least four to six inches in order to come out. However, they need to be pulled out intentionally, since the gasket that prevents water intrusion creates too much friction for them to just come out. Also, they can be locked in place.
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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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  #605  
Old 01-25-2011
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Now thats an interesting sailboat...


He cross the Atlantic from Est to West in 1968 in he's 6' sailboat. You can read about he's story in he's book: April Fool

Now thats the same guy in 1993 with a 5'4'' sailboat.




This time he crossed the Atlantic from New Foundland to England. You can read about he's voyage in he's book:The Stormy Voyage of Father's Day

And this guy, Tom McNally... He tried to cross the Atlantic Est to west, but didn't finish. The smallest sailboat to atempt to cross the Atlantic ocean yet.
He's sailboat was 3'11''.....



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Last edited by PeterSailer; 01-25-2011 at 02:37 PM.
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  #606  
Old 01-25-2011
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Quote:
Not true...depends on the design. The companionway on my boat is tapered, but the drop boards need to be raised at least four to six inches in order to come out. However, they need to be pulled out intentionally, since the gasket that prevents water intrusion creates too much friction for them to just come out. Also, they can be locked in place.
I agree with you, it really does depend on the design. I hadn't thought about the gasket friction... But on some boat, there is no gasket, as a example on my father's Cal34, the board drop in a teak frame that is tapered, there is no gasket and the bords are made out of Fiber glass so they're not heavy at all.You only need to raise those about an inch and they come out. And the companion way allmost reach the cockpit sole so that could be a probleme.
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  #607  
Old 01-25-2011
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Elan 350

Quote:
Originally Posted by tdw View Post
....
I must say that one thing I do agree with you about is draft. 2 metre plus draft is too deep for my needs. Our current boat is 1.8 but in truth is closer to 2.0. Thats as deep as I want to go and yes I'll sacrifice performance if necessary.

Now me, I love that Elan350 but its not the boat for me. I cannot see the torpedo bulb keel being good for anything other than performance.

OTOH....I would drive away in a Sun Odyssey 409, that is very close to ideal for me even though its not a deck saloon. Lovely looking boat.

One of the things we all need to keep in mind is the use we will put the boat to. Ultimately I am likely to be rock hopping my way around Australia. I'm not likely to spend more than the odd day or so at sea, mainly day passages except when I need to cover some distance. Bass Strait for one , maybe offshore to Lord Howe, even some parts of the NSW coast are at least an overnight between ports....unless of course you are Wild Oats X1....

I'm also not someone who goes out for a few hours sailing all that often...or not as often as some. Even if only for a weekend I head out to a favourite anchorage, drop anchor and sit tight till I have to go home Sunday evenong or Monday morning. Ergo, I need more of a comfortable home than a sports car.

Paulo and I have had this discussion before.

But....reality is that even Vancouver make a great fuss about cut away forefoot to increase performance. I see it as simply progress. Sometimes design inovation takes a backward step but its mostly forward.
Yes, different sailors have different needs, but has you can see by the unanimous opinion of the Jury the Elan 350 suits the needs of a certain kind of cruisers...not your kind, more my kind and that don´t mean a difference between coastal and offshore, cause the 350 is an offshore boat. More a difference in style. As one of the juries have said:

"Easy to sail fast with a lot of fun, good space inside, a perfect fast cruiser for young and sportive families".





well, I am not certainly young (unless you consider the spirit ) bur certainly I have a sportive family that don't like fat and slow boats and that likes to have fun while sailing. Well, probably not the case with my wife but he is clearly a minority and anyway she would prefer to catch the airplane and catch us at the cruising grounds and we would prefer her to catch the airplane and let us having fun while sailing. So this is a perfect compromise

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 10-23-2013 at 11:31 AM.
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  #608  
Old 01-25-2011
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Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 409 Boat of the year - boat test

Andrews,

I think the Jeanneau 409 is your kind of boat. It is no Deck sallon but the outside view from the saloon through double hull ports is really good. You don't fell like in a basement





Even before I have read the jury comments I had already reached the conclusion (by reading some boat tests) that, even if I find the interior gorgeous, this was not my kind of boat, and I will try to tell you why.

So lets see what the jury said about this boat and let me join all opinions, and make a separation between positive and negative comments:

POSITIVE:

This Philippe Briand designed cruiser has many modern design features such as plumb ends, hull chines, an aft cockpit and twin wheels, but it is her accommodation that says more about what really lies at the heart of her design.

Her modest and elegantly fitted teak or oak interior is the first thing to grab your attention. While subtle in colour, the horizontal grain might not be a major feature, but it sets the scene for a boat that challenges the norm. ....

The message is clear, Jeanneau are heading back to their roots with a good looking, solidly built boat that has an eye on the future as well.

... Just in front of each of the wheels lies a Harken 50.2 self tailing winch onto which the mainsheet and genoa sheets are led ensuring the primary controls are close to hand for the helmsman, while also allowing the crew can operate them easily as well.
...At a starting price of €128,740 she is very good value for money for a well built boat that has looks that will last.

The 409 does not only have a very elegant appearance. She also features clever details on and below decks. The option of different headsails is a big plus. And the accomodation is both warm and roomy - something that doesn't always go together well. In fact, even though she is fairly priced she feels rather rich and very comfortable.

The more complete boat of the category, she looks more luxurious and refined than her class. She seems to be back to the Jeanneau best times, when they were realized in medium quality and far from cusins Beneteau.

+ very well designed
+ good deck solutions, many details well resolved
+ functional interior layouts
+ well done interior finishing, quality materials
+ good value for money

Those guys from Jeanneau are very clever : you can hardly beat them in term of value for money. You have lots and lots of space, the boat is rather good under sail and you feel you are on a special boat. Still, it is a mass production boat and the price is very good but you really enjoy living aboard and nothing reminds you of anything « low price ». Well done.

You feel the experience of the yard, when you are sailing the boat: good upwind performance and comfortable trim options, when you have choosen the electric sheetwinshes. Other fine features:
- Variable sailplan: especially the possibility to use three different foresails
- Ambiance under deck: The interior is made with brain and charm; well done woodwork with good working fittings; multifunctional navigation place and salon table.

I you want a boats to give good vibrations, Sun Odyssey 409 is a splendid example. It combines trendright chines, big beam aft with a coachroof ending in "shoulders". If EYOTY was a beautycontest, 409 would have won it too.
Besides having Philippe Briand onboard again, Jeannau has included some new neat features for relaxed sailing, like selftacking jib, low integrated jibtrack on the coachroof, sheets led under a deckcover to electric winches in the cockpit, This demonstrates fresh thinking.
....
Inside Sun Odyssey 409 collects even more points with inviting space, clever layout with one or two aftcabins and toilets, and a genious charttable doubling as bar.

Finishwise the 409 feels de luxe, with leatherhandles, leathercovered charttable, rounded fronts.

Under sail the boat balances a family´s needs, enough sailarea for good speed in light air and solid ruddergrip with lots of control in high winds. Even more familyplus is proper ballastratio for comfortable ride when wind picks up.

Overall Sun Odyssey 409 represents a new level on family cruising in design, sailing, inside volume, finish and value for money.

Better by design: Jeanneau have managed to make an affordable family cruiser witch looks luxurious, but not on the price tag. ...

Jeanneau has the skill to keep things simple and functional. The 409 feels like a bigger boat especially down below.
...And as opposed to the Xc where you get a lot of boat for a lot of money the Jeanneau gives just a lot of boat for the money.





NEGATIVE:

Where the layout struggles a little is in the friction of the sheet systems and in winches that are a bit underpowered fro the task.

A bit stiff on the helm, maybe. And with a bit too much friction in the rope arrangement that leads all aft.

- not fast or funny under sail, heavy at the helm.

You could argue that it feels a bit heavy and numb on the wheel but never the less I'm quite certain that Jeanneau targets their audience close to spot on.



No, I have no doubt that this is a great boat and that many sailors would not find the negative points that were refereed. Fact is that not all of the Juries refereed those negative points, but it is also true that several had found them.

Probably you would be the kind of sailor that would find boat's sailing performance perfect, but I know that I would find all the negative points that some testers have found and that those are more important for me than the outstanding boat interior.

I know that because I intentionally chartered last year a boat that has been considered (by the same testers) as a must in what regards sailing potential among cruiser boats, the Dufour 425 and I found it a very good cruising boat, but "numb" at the wheel and not particularly fast or exiting to sail. I don't want a boat like that...and I am sure, for the same reasons, that the Jeanneau 409 is not the boat for me, even if it will be the perfect boat for many sailors.

Neustart mit der Sun Odyssey 409 - YACHT: YACHT tv

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 10-23-2013 at 11:32 AM.
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  #609  
Old 01-25-2011
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Used Boats American Boat Listing ABLBoats

You want to see a weird boat check this out. But not too many comments... we just bought her.
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  #610  
Old 01-25-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teddier1 View Post
Used Boats American Boat Listing ABLBoats

You want to see a weird boat check this out. But not too many comments... we just bought her.
See there, everybody thinks that Raised Saloons are a relatively new concept, but obviously its not. Cal was doing it back in the 70's.
Congratulations on your purchase.
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