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  #6141  
Old 02-12-2014
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Re: Fareast 36 cat

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Originally Posted by PCP View Post
and now a very interesting weekender cat that I bet will be followed by a cruising one with more interior space and the same platform.
I think you are right: This one is for the charter market and can take 25(!) guests (on a 36-feeter)...
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  #6142  
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Hanse 675

The boat market took a funny swing: There are less small sailboats being sold...but also bigger sailboats being sold. Having less sailboats being sold was inevitable with the crisis hitting the middle class but bigger boats being on the raise was completely unexpected and a very good thing for the shipyards. Many have found a way of escaping financial problems diverting the production to bigger yacht.

Some would say that this is a bad thing but I don't think so. Truth is that there are more people wanting to sail, at least in Europe even if the crisis had diminished the number of sales (but not the total value). Let's hope the crisis goes way and the middle class has again the means to buy sailboats. The brands will still be there partially because the rich ones decided that sail was cool. Thanks to them and to the ones that prefer sailboats to motorboats.

This tendency has as reflex that all mass market shipyards have been increasing the size of their bigger boats that today in many is over 60ft, something unthinkable 15 years ago.

Let's have a look at the new Hanse 675....it seems yesterday that Hanse started to make sailboats....a 675, very impressive, not only the boat but the growing of the brand and that means certainly something in what regards the overall quality

On this one I even like more the interior that seems really cozy even if the style is not one that I favor, but the design quality seems to have improved a lot.

Also in what regards interior and lightening we can see one of the modern tendencies, with a high freeboard that allows a very low cabin with the illumination being mostly zenithal with lots of transparent surfaces. Also the size and location of port hulls creates a true "window" effect providing a great sea view from the salon and cabins. Like the previous model the boat has a big garage able to carry a big dingy. It looks fast too and I am sure it is fast.

Nice passage maker, a judel-vrolijk design.











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Last edited by PCP; 02-13-2014 at 07:06 AM.
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  #6143  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Paulo,

I think the healthy upper end market is a reflection of the underlying dichotomy in global economies. There's two very separate stories evolving. The middle class are not doing as well as the upper class, hence the higher end market is increasingly gaining the attention of boat yards.

Regards,
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  #6144  
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Production shipyards betting on big yachts.

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Originally Posted by opc11 View Post
Paulo,

I think the healthy upper end market is a reflection of the underlying dichotomy in global economies. There's two very separate stories evolving. The middle class are not doing as well as the upper class, hence the higher end market is increasingly gaining the attention of boat yards.

Regards,
Sure but while the middle class has troubles (and that explains why the sales on small and medium sized yachts lowered) that would have not mean necessarily that on the upper class the interest in sailing was on the rise. I believe that is more an European thing (by the number of shipyards and new sailboats), at least in what regards sailing yachts.

Some more that come recently to the market or are at the design stage, coming from production Brands that used to make smaller boats:

The Wauquiez 65 by Berret-Racoupeau:





The Gunfleet 74 by Tony Castro



the Oyster 725 by Rob Humphreys





The Halberg Rassy 63 by German Frers



The Contest 72 by Georg Nissen





The CNB (Benetau) 76 by Philippe Briand



Jeanneau 64 by Philippe Briand





Ice 80 and 100 by Felci







The Mylius 18E35 by Alberto Simeone



Advanced 66 By Reichel-Pugh



and there are a lot more like the Salona 60 and 65 and the X6 from X yachts (posted recently).

Even some American brands (made in China) has presented new and more interesting boats, like the relatively new Hylas 63 by German Frers



Also on the small market of traditional and classic sailingboats we can see new big boats coming on:

The Spirit 110 and 130





The Farlie 77



The Pacific Seacraft 61 by Robert Perry





http://www.pacificseacraft.com/566287/renderings/

And also the Bestevaer series built by K&M and designed by Dykstra even if on this ones the size seems to have stabilized around the 55/56ft.



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  #6145  
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Re: Fareast 36 cat

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Originally Posted by PCP View Post
I like these Chinese boats and this ones are not just some European or American using China cheap work labor to make less expensive boats. No these are really Chinese boats and they are not outdated as one could suppose. The management by European perspective is made by kids: they are all very young, including the director that is a girl, and a very nice one

They made dinghies, wired a good NA firm, Simonis / Voogd, made a very interesting 26ft cruiser racer (just a couple of years ago) then last year an even more interesting cutting edge 31ft racer and now a very interesting weekender cat that I bet will be followed by a cruising one with more interior space and the same platform.

The boat is just beautiful and I bet that these kids in 10 years will be major players on the Yacht market.

(you can see posts both about the 26ft as the 31R on this thread, I have been following their work with interest).



Specifications :

LOA (hull length) 10.97 m
LWL (Waterline Length) 10.83 m
Beam 6.20 m
Draft 0.85 m
Weight 5.2 t
Sail area 71.0 sqm
Designer Simonis / Voogd
This look similar to the South African Seascape 39

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  #6146  
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Seascape 29

Yes, the fareast more modern on the hulls and design but the same basic concept and general design. I can't find information on that boat but it is not also a Simonis / Voogd design? Those two, or at least one of them came from South Africa to Holland (Boer's descendants) and they still have a NA cabinet in South Africa.

Regards

Paulo
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On design : Winches location for solo sailing.

Getting back to that OPC question and talking about boats with more than 40ft (smaller boats can have a purchase system for the main sheet if the system runs on the cockpit and only need two).

As I have pointed out there are two cases, main mass market cruisers and performance cruisers.

Regarding main market cruisers the tendency is to have a single winch near each wheel and have also there the blocks, so you block one line and use the winch on the other sheet. Whit this system, due to the rigging and position of blocks it is almost impossible to add another winch. Regarding these boats only Bavaria offers the possibility of another pair of winches, but those are not near the wheel. There are two exception that I know off and I will talk about them later.

Regarding performance cruisers only very recently that was taken into consideration (with some very few exceptions) and the normal set up was to have 4 winches on the cockpit but well separated and none near the wheel. The reason has to do with giving more space for maneuver when the boat is used for crewed racing. The First 40, the Salona 410, The Comet 41s, the Xp 38, the Dehler 41 don't have any winch at easy reach from the wheels man.

Then on the some very recent performance cruisers they started taking more into consideration the needs of a solo sailor regarding the balance between what is optimal in solo sailing and racing and started to have one winch more near the wheel (on each side) and the other far way.

That's the case for instance of the new Elan 400:





Or the RM 1260



Let me point out that if on the RM you use a two tillers system (I think they have it on option) the problem is sorted out because with the extension you can reach the other winch. That's how it works on the Pogo 12.50:



The first performance cruiser to take that balance much more for solo sailing than for crewed racing was Dufour that on their performance line developed a system that is now used by other brands. Both the two winches from each side are easily accessible to a solo sailor:

The 40e:





The 45e:





Some other recent performance boats adopted the system, that's the case with the Azuree 46:



And I bet the next one, the new Azuree 40 will have that system too.

You can also make it easy for the solo sailor with only 3 winches near the wheel providing one is central and direct or German sheeting is used. That's what the Maxi 1200 does (even if I don't understand a performance boat without traveler). The system can also work with traveler but has to be rigged in another way.



Regarding the main market cruisers that use 3 or 4 winches easily accessible to the solo sailor, one is a very expensive boat, this Year's European luxury boat, the Contest 42CS. They propose multiple options regarding rigging including adapted to solo sailors:









and the other one is not a particularly expensive one for its size and it is the Dufour, the new 500 from the main line (Grand Large):







The problem was solved in an elegant way and a functional one. I looked to see if the 410 had space for the same...but it has not. With the winch there there is no space to sit at the wheel.



On the even newer Dufour 560 they have also the same system as on the 500 but even with more space and probably working even better:

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Last edited by PCP; 02-13-2014 at 12:21 PM.
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  #6148  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Despite my more focused cruising interest (odd since i'm generally a pretty competitive guy who once upon a time loved racing lasers, 420's, 470's as a kid) a traveler would still be important to me but it's placement would have to allow for a sheltered cockpit. That rules out having it on the cockpit floor.

The central main winch is also easy to rule out for me. None of the other options looked as appealing as the Dufour 500's setup from a solo cruising standpoint. Plus, despite them being clustered around the helm, I wouldn't be afraid to enter some races (with a crew) in a cruising class (with low expectations...at least at first ;-) ). Nothing to fear when you don't fully know what you're doing! :-)

Thanks for assembling a great display of boats/cockpits. Very interesting as I learn more about the nuances of larger boats.

Last edited by opc11; 02-13-2014 at 02:06 PM.
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Wheels, Travelers and Winches

Having steered some dual wheel 40' boats, I can say sitting down and reaching for the main sheet winch and traveler is rather uncomfortable due main sheet winch is usually set up for main sheet trimmer just forward of the wheel along with traveler controls. I would think most would find steering while standing and having the ability to walk back and forth between wheels and forward into cockpit (while on autohelm) very convenient.

Reminds me of Dennis Conner sitting on the rail with a big destroyer wheel

Hard to tell what the two winches are for sitting on end of bench seats.

For a shorthanded or solo sailor, a central mounted mainsheet winch and traveler located in the cockpit is way to go.
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Wheels, Travelers and Winches

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Wheels, Travelers and Winches

Having steered some dual wheel 40' boats, I can say sitting down and reaching for the main sheet winch and traveler is rather uncomfortable due main sheet winch is usually set up for main sheet trimmer just forward of the wheel along with traveler controls. I would think most would find steering while standing and having the ability to walk back and forth between wheels and forward into cockpit (while on autohelm) very convenient.

Reminds me of Dennis Conner sitting on the rail with a big destroyer wheel

Hard to tell what the two winches are for sitting on end of bench seats.

For a shorthanded or solo sailor, a central mounted mainsheet winch and traveler located in the cockpit is way to go.
Regarding what is the better setup for a solo sailor regarding the two possible wheel setup (Two or single) regarding reaching the winches I have not any doubt, I mean if the boat is sportive and the wheel is really big, as it is on mine, it is much easier with two wheels specially if the weather is bad and the boat is strongly heeled. I have many hours of sailing with the two types of set up, 3 weeks sailing every day on two different boats with two wheel setup (and smaller times with other boats) and a huge time on mine and I sail always practically solo with an occasional small help from my wife. Off course this is a personal view. A single big wheel has advantages in what regards sensibility and feeling and a two wheel set up has to be pretty good and expensive not to give a numb sensation at the wheel. One of those boats that I mentioned, a Dufour 425GL had an effective steering but not a lively one. The other one, a Salona 41 was much better but even so not as good as the big wheel of my boat in what regards being informative.

Basically the main problem is going out from behind that big wheel with the boat heeled and get back in. Not always an easy task specially when the weather is bad and you are wearing an harness or the boat is strongly heeled. On a single wheel setup you have to unclip and clip again on the other side of the wheel. With two wheels even with an harness you can run a jack-line along the cockpit that allows safe movement and serves also for the steering post.

Regarding the traveler I agree with you.

Regarding the winches I believe that we both agree that one should be mounted on each side near the wheel and easily run from the steering post. Regarding the other winch I surely would prefer the system that it is mounted on Dufour, with winches side by side, both at easy reach, than to have to go forward leaving the wheel to reach a winch way forward.

Regarding a single winch to be the better solution than the two parallel ones I would have to try both solutions but I have some doubts about how that can be made without making difficult the use of the traveler. Without a traveler, like it is used on the Contest and on the Maxi 1200 it seems a great solution to me. Don't take me wrong, I am not saying that it would not work, just saying that it would depend where the traveler is and how the two things work together. it also occupies more space on the cockpit and dificult the movement forward.

Never tried the system used on the last models of the Dufour performance (two winches side by side) but I have already sailed in recent sailboats with the aft winch near the wheel and I can only say that I wished my boat had one like that

I believe the system with the two winches in parallel if well rigged and done work well for a solo sailor. If it was not the case they would have already changed the system on Dufour (it has already some years now) and other boats and designers would not have started to use it also.

Does anybody have sailed a Dufour with those two parallel winches?

Regards

Paulo
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Last edited by PCP; 02-14-2014 at 06:16 AM.
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