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  #6141  
Old 02-12-2014
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Re: Sailjet 40

Quote:
Originally Posted by capt vimes View Post
weird boat...
one sees that their focus was on motor boating when you look at the sailing hardware alone:
the winches are not even self tailing and the aft sheet is brought back to the winch via the cleat...
....
there is also no information on the ballast apart from "Keel AISI 316 + 440 - 550 kg lead" and i think they are talking here about the central daggerboard (for what it is).
i cannot believe that this would be the only ballast for a "sailing" boat with 4500 - 5000 kg of displacement...
brochure: http://www.in-time-yachts.fi/images/...eng_bw_web.pdf
The boat is not really a sailboat but a boat that can use the wind to sail downwind fast or go upwind in light winds and not pointing very well. Reaching will go well in light but at medium winds it would not have the power (RM) to go fast and it will be dangerous in strong winds (sailing).

I would have said that the CE certification for the boat in what regards sailing would not even reach B criteria and that really confuses me since they announce a CE certification A?????

Probably the boat was certified as motorboat not sailing boat? Can MR W shed some light on this subject?

Regarding ballast on the file it is confusing but they also say : "The centreboard has a lead ballast of ca 500 kg cast into AISI 316 steel cover. The water and fuel tanks as well the batteries play an active role in stabilizing the yacht minimizing the need for passive dead weight."

Off course they give the idea that 500kg of ballast and not even with a keel with a low CG, it is enough for the boat giving its lightness but what they mean is that it is enough for that type of boat that is not really a sailboat

Saying that, the boat is what it is and besides the brochure be misleading (and that can be dangerous) it is an interesting mixed boat for that ones that want just that. It is designed by some junior NA under the supervision of Karl-Johan Stråhlmann and Stråhlmann is a great NA, responsible for many good and interesting boats like some Finngulfs, by the cute Maestro and also for the Saare.

I have no doubt that they knew what were doing even if that detail you have posted regarding the rigging shows that regarding sailing some things are really odd and deserved a better thought

...and that certification on A category is really a mystery. I don't understand how the boat can pass the minimum required AVS. MR W, can you have a look at that?

Regards

Paulo
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  #6142  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjung View Post
Can we please stop the bobperry bashing?! His only infraction was disagreeing with the "Pope", the words "silly" and "stupid". ...

Also, there have been more than one occasion where Paulo has exhibited a very arrogant and rude stance as well, here and in other threads. As in "Americans like crude, less skillfull sports (boats)"
I pretty much run this thread but I am no Pope here even if the object of this thread is well marked on the first post.

Putting quotes out of context and not exact quotes it is not appropriated nor nice.

Generically what American sailors like is expressed on the American sailboat market, and that's what I was talking about when said the above "quote" that is obviously accurate regarding the comparison with European sailors and European market: On america there is not any performance cruiser builder with any serious penetration on the market and the bigger one (Jboats) sell more performance cruisers on Europe than on the States. All European performance cruisers or don't have US dealers or if they have their sales are just residual regarding the all of American sailboat market.

As performance cruisers are less crude and more skillful boats to sail and his percentage on the market is incomparably bigger on Europe that in the states I don't see why you disagree with me or why you think that is an arrogant statement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjung View Post
, " Americans are just behind times in what regards the estetics of boats"
Here I think you are messing up. I had not said that and I certainly did not have talked about "estetics", that is a subjective matter but about boat design quality that is an objective one. It seems you don't know the difference and that confuses you. I use (and used) the term in a technical way that has little to do with aesthetics:

"designers attempt to optimize a design candidate for known constraints and objectives,.......Interior Designer implies that there is more of an emphasis on Planning, Functional design and effective use of space involved in this profession, as compared to interior decorating....An interior designer may wish to specialize in a particular type of interior design in order to develop technical knowledge specific to that area."

wiki

what I said related with boat interior design that in American brands is still made by the staff from the shipyard and not by the best dedicated professional cabinets as it is on most European boats. While European boats are designed by the best NA and the best interior designers (two different teams working together) American mass produced boats are designed by the in the house technicians. That explains the difference in quality, particularly in what regards interior design quality, that again, as I explained, has little to do with aesthetics. You can have different high quality interior design following very different aesthetically lines.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjung View Post

(sorry, but the Bene O38, really looks like a bloated tennis shoe!), or, "This boat is ugly. If you like it you must be British!" (Gunfleet 43) and so on....
..
Regarding that comparison with Bob's qualification of the Oceanis 38, he is expressing a fact : "the Bene 038 really look like" I am expressing my personal opinion (and leave that clear) and have the care to say that it is far from unanimous since I say that the British like the boat. I am saying that personally I don't share some of the aesthetic British tastes in boats not saying that they have bad taste or that mine is better, In what regards aesthetics and tastes we enter a very subjective area:

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
. .. I don't doubt that it is well built but I wonder if Tony Castro could not have come up with a nicer design. I find the boat really ugly....But I guess that if many British like the boat you can like it to.
As I have said before I don't have no objection to the participation of Bob on this thread providing he does that with me and other members in a normal way and not in a paternalistic way, calling names (stupid, silly, myopic) to all that don't share is views and stop with incomprehensible comments and wise cracks. I am no asking more or less than what I ask to myself or to all the others that contribute to this thread. Provided he does it in a "normal" and polite way (as all) I am very pleased to have him around as one of the contributors.

I really don't like this sort of argument here, this thread is about boats and I want a good ambiance here, a convivial and polite one. I Hope this is settled for good.

Regards

Paulo
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Last edited by PCP; 02-12-2014 at 11:54 AM.
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  #6143  
Old 02-12-2014
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Jung:
No worries. I'll watch the thread but I'll keep my comments on the boats to myself.
I appreciate your kind concern.

Paulo doesn't like rude but he is the master of snide and smarm.
I don't care for his myopic view of the world of yachts and yachting and his constant ignorant and stereotypical comments about the "US taste" in boats.
His view that he makes the rules for this public forum are bizarre.

But I do like to look at the various boats he posts. I give him credit for keeping the thread going with interesting boats that for the most part are out of my world. If I didn't see many of the boats here I most probably would never see them. Can't have that.

But, Paulo and I are never going to get along. I'll take responsability for that.
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  #6144  
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Re: Sailjet 40

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Probably the boat was certified as motorboat not sailing boat? Can MR W shed some light on this subject?

Regarding ballast on the file it is confusing but they also say : "The centreboard has a lead ballast of ca 500 kg cast into AISI 316 steel cover. The water and fuel tanks as well the batteries play an active role in stabilizing the yacht minimizing the need for passive dead weight."

...and that certification on A category is really a mystery. I don't understand how the boat can pass the minimum required AVS. MR W, can you have a look at that?

Regards

Paulo
Well, the guys in the video point out that the batteries and engine are used as part of ballast, but not much more is said about this. I guess that using two masts lower the point of pressure, making the need for ballast less than on a normal sailboat. They don´t mention anything regarding type of category for certification, but I think it must be as sailboat.

I find the boat very interesting, not saying though that I would want to own one I think I´ll stick to my Dragonfly!

In the test, they claim that the boat actually sail pretty well...! I can´t see this boat pointing very well though, not with the sails sheeted so far out to the sides. Anyway, thought it was interesting enough to post about

Mr W
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  #6145  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Jörg Riechers: Das finale Mare Refit ? Mehr Volumen im Bug und 400 Kilo gespart | SegelReporter

News of the mare (IMOCA) refit: They put a lot more volume in the bow and reduced the total weight by 400kg. With modifications on the water ballast they want to save some more 200kgs...
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  #6146  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Maybe there can be a separate thread for interesting traditional boats? The boats on this thread are all super, but probably not attainable for the average person looking for a future somewhat affordable boat (which seems to be a popular entry question here).
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  #6147  
Old 02-12-2014
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

C&C:
Yes, I think you are correct.
I have been hard at work this week on a major change, I see it as major to the new 62 Pacific Seacraft ketch.

For me it is an interesting project but I don't think it fits Paulo's definition of "interesting" and I respect that he sets the theme for the boats posted here. The PSC 62 would not be a good fit here. It's quite a traditional American approach to styling. Not "backwards". Not "behind the times" but certainly by design and client requirements, far from Euro.

So. as soon as we get the 3d model of the change finalized I'll probably start a different thread where diversity of design is presented and contrary opinions are not only allowed but encouraged.
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  #6148  
Old 02-12-2014
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by robelz View Post


News of the mare (IMOCA) refit: They put a lot more volume in the bow and reduced the total weight by 400kg. With modifications on the water ballast they want to save some more 200kgs...
I am happy to see that they are trying to take the most of an older boat and I hope they can make it competitive face to the the last generation of racers even if I have doubts that is totally possible. We will see about that on the Barcelona world race and I wish the best for Riechers that is a great sailor and has a large future ahead. I have been following Riechers since the mini and always been impressed with his performance.

I still think that Riechers deserved a better boat and I am amazed he cannot find in Germany sponsorship that allows him that. Maybe if he can pull some good results with this old boat and with that he can find the money for a brand new one for the next Vendee. I really hope that

Regards

Paulo
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  #6149  
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Myopic vews

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
...
Paulo doesn't like rude but he is the master of snide and smarm.
I don't care for his myopic view of the world of yachts and yachting and his constant ignorant and stereotypical comments about the "US taste" in boats....
As usually unfounded and rude comments. That's what I was talking about: Who does not take the same view as you have on NA has a myopic view even if your view is one that has nothing of contemporary or as you have yourself stated, not cutting edge.

You know Bob, being polite has to do also with not expressing in words what we really think about someone else if that thought can be rude or disagreeable but as you insist in calling myopic to my view on Naval Yacht Architecture, for once I will be as rude as you and I will say that from my perspective your's is just outdated and not just by a small margin.

Of course I am not saying it is, just my opinion about it, like yours regarding mine: Myopic.

I would say that a myopic view should not attract such a number of good contributors to this thread or so many followers...but then maybe they are all myopic too, who knows

I wish you the best for your thread that I will follow with interest.

Regard

Paulo
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  #6150  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Home | Fareast

A new 33 and a ne 36 CAT. The 36's hull looks nice, the rest is pure crap...
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