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post #6201 of 6763 Old 02-18-2014
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

I spoke to that guy with the Spirit in your area. I guess it's the same guy. He was less than happy with the boat. He called me about a possible new boat. Do you know if he sold the Spirit? I have a friend who owns a Spirit in SF. He likes the boat but I get the impression that his wife does not. He just bought her a 65' schooner so she could be comfy. He bought David Crosby's boat MAYAN. It's a real beauty. He'll keep the Spirit for himself.

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post #6202 of 6763 Old 02-18-2014
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

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Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
... He just bought her a 65' schooner so she could be comfy...
I just knew it all the time, i was born the wrong sex...

The superstructure of Tudulut looks really strange... Who wants to have a convex, almost vertical front of glass to the foredeck where green water might clash into it?
The curvature of this front is focusing the seawater, which weighs more than a metric ton by the cubic meter, to a small point where the accumulated force might crash the panes... I sometimes think, that some designers should do some basic physics lessons again...
But what do i know on the other hand...
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post #6203 of 6763 Old 02-18-2014
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

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Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
I spoke to that guy with the Spirit in your area. I guess it's the same guy. He was less than happy with the boat. He called me about a possible new boat. Do you know if he sold the Spirit? I have a friend who owns a Spirit in SF. He likes the boat but I get the impression that his wife does not. He just bought her a 65' schooner so she could be comfy. He bought David Crosby's boat MAYAN. It's a real beauty. He'll keep the Spirit for himself.
The boat's no longer in town so I assume that it's been sold. The owner at the time owned a successful organic market on Bowen Island. We sailed against her in a 'round Bowen race' and she did not impress, however any 'round an island' race is always a crapshoot.

I gather nothing came of the conversation about a new boat?

Ron

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post #6204 of 6763 Old 02-18-2014 Thread Starter
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Spirit and classic boats versus Pilot cuter classics.

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Originally Posted by Faster View Post
...
The Spirits yachts appeal similarly, though a local example did not display the speed one would expect. (could have been the crew)
Pilot cuter classic boats compromise less the sailing performance regarding entirely contemporary hulls. The huge overhangs of a true classic looker like the Spirit give it a very small LWL regarding the length of the hull.

Look at this picture of a Spirit 100ft and look at the superior view. If you pay attention you will see that the water plan is marked over the interior: Ridiculously small for the size of the boat, by modern standards:





It is not marked on this Hoek designed 85ft but if you follow the lines you will see that comparatively the LWL is incomparably bigger regarding the hull length. This type of "model" is much less compromised regarding a modern hull, at least upwind.



The performance of the Spirit can only be compared with one of a boat with the same LWL and that means a much smaller boat. Downwind the boat will only go marginally faster than hull speed...and since the LWL is small, it will not be a match for a modern boat of the same size and even less if it is a fast one that will be able to go a bit over hull speed easily.

But someone that buys a Spirit thinking that he bought a fast boat or because wants to sail fast missed the boat all together. The Spirit is all about style and enjoying a certain kind of sailing that will not be fast by modern criteria but certainly will be very enjoyable.

Regards

Paulo
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post #6205 of 6763 Old 02-18-2014 Thread Starter
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by capt vimes View Post
...

The superstructure of Tudulut looks really strange... Who wants to have a convex, almost vertical front of glass to the foredeck where green water might clash into it?
The curvature of this front is focusing the seawater, which weighs more than a metric ton by the cubic meter, to a small point where the accumulated force might crash the panes... I sometimes think, that some designers should do some basic physics lessons again...
But what do i know on the other hand...
You know that material can be made bullet proof and the ones used on boats on that position are incredibly though. It is more a question of height and the way it is sported. Do you really think that small height front of Plexiglas sported on aluminium will be dangerous?

I don't see a problem and the forces there would not be very different than the ones that will be experienced on this one:



Regards

Paulo


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post #6206 of 6763 Old 02-18-2014 Thread Starter
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Figaro II

A nice way for having a good look at the hull



and since we are talking about Figaro, some great images from "La solitaire du Figaro"


Teaser por lasolitairedufigaro


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post #6207 of 6763 Old 02-19-2014
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

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You know that material can be made bullet proof and the ones used on boats on that position are incredibly though. It is more a question of height and the way it is sported. Do you really think that small height front of Plexiglas sported on aluminium will be dangerous?
...
oh i know all that, but why should one do so, if you could just design it differently?
transparent aluminium anyone?
this is btw quite the same stuff you have on your watches around your wrist... but we all knew that lieutenant commander montgomery scott gave away the recipe back in 1986...

besides even if i have no doubts that the designers made their homework regarding impact resistance, it still is not an appealing design to me...
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post #6208 of 6763 Old 02-19-2014 Thread Starter
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Another sail test on the RM 890



This one (by Voile et Voiliers) more than a simple contact it is a better one, more precise and informative regarding wind and sea conditions, performance and things that could be better.

The version tested was the one with twin keels and a single rudder, a deep one. Even so they say that in limit situations, with too much heel, the rudder has a tendency to "ventiler", that I would translate by losing grip. They say that it would be better a solution with twin keels and two rudders (like some others RM can have). Off course, it is not by chance that the shipyard chose that solution regarding cruising but because it allows (as you can see on the picture) a third support point for balancing the boat while beaching it. Not a strong one but one that can be important just to maintain the balance.

The boat on this configuration has a draft of 1.5m and is RCD classified as a class B boat. On the version with single keel (1.9m) and two rudders it is classified as a A boat.

Regarding things they did not like: A feeling a bit stiff on the tiller (single rudder), the galley storage not well thought and the standing height a bit limit...and that's all in a boat that they found proportionally lighter and faster than the other RM series. They also refereed a good finish and that in what regards sailing all is perfect: the position for steering the boat, the way all rigging is done regarding a solo sailor, with everything at easy reach.

They also refer a great storage on the cockpit, with a double central locker for the life raft and dinghy, a big lateral one for sails, outboard engine, boat defenses and also a big anchor locker.

Regarding performances they were a lot clearer and more complete than on a previous test I had already talked about.

with a sea almost with no waves they were surprised with a very good performance with light winds and I say surprised because on this type of very beamy hulls upwind performance in light winds is normally a weak point.

Main sail and genoa: 7K wind 5.1K speed at 50 off TRW.
Main sail and genoa: 9k wind 5.4K speed at 50 off TRW.
Main sail and genoa: 9k wind 6.7K speed at 70 off TRW.

Mainsail and Ass.Spi: 7k wind 6.0K speed at 90 off TRW.
Mainsail and Ass.Spi: 11k wind 8.4K speed at 100 off TRW.
Mainsail and Ass.Spi: 11k wind 7.3K speed at 140 off TRW.

As you can see the overall performance is very good for a cruiser with 9m. Going at almost 8.5K with only 11k wind is outstanding and already way over hull speed. From then on, with more wind I am quite sure the speed will increase rapidly and this baby will be able to do 2 figure speeds with strong winds, adequate sails and a good sailor at the tiller.

Even without nothing of that, just with an average sailor and only with genoa the boat is already making almost 7K with 9K winds. It is a pity they didn't refer the speed with 11k with only genoa but I would say that it would be around 7K or just a bit over. A very fast cruiser that can be even faster, specially upwind on the version with a single keel and deep draft.

The boat seems to sail so well that maybe they contemplate making a "RC" version with a really deep keel, something like 2.3m. That would save a considerable weight in ballast, would allow the boat to plane earlier and would improve even more the upwind potential making it a boat to make the transquadra. The hull seems to deserve it
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Last edited by PCP; 02-19-2014 at 05:35 PM.
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post #6209 of 6763 Old 02-19-2014 Thread Starter
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

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Originally Posted by capt vimes View Post
oh i know all that, but why should one do so, if you could just design it differently?
transparent aluminium anyone?
Aluminium oxynitride - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
this is btw quite the same stuff you have on your watches around your wrist... but we all knew that lieutenant commander montgomery scott gave away the recipe back in 1986...

besides even if i have no doubts that the designers made their homework regarding impact resistance, it still is not an appealing design to me...
That's more like it I would say that I agree with you that shape seems not to have any functional purpose even if I doubt that in what regards impact would be very different than a simple vertical one (maybe even better in all impact directions except a straight one). Anyway given the small height and the support an aluminium structure can give, not a problem in what regards functionality also.

That leaves us on the aesthetically field and there I would have to look better at it. Certainly unusual and even if I have no doubts that in what regards interior space and interior view it is not a good idea, a slightly curved form from the outside view can give an interesting outlook (but I would like to see it better). Personally I would not have traded a slightly more interesting exterior outlook (if it is the case) by a poor interior feeling...but it is just me. In what regards aesthetics we are on a much more subjective field.

Regarding transparent Aluminium I did not know about it. it seems hard and expensive to make and I did not saw curved surfaces but maybe in the future we could see an all aluminium boat, "windows" and all

Regards

Paulo


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Last edited by PCP; 02-19-2014 at 08:48 AM.
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post #6210 of 6763 Old 02-19-2014
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

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Regarding transparent Aluminium I did not know about it. it seems hard and expensive to make and I did not saw curved surfaces but maybe in the future we could see an all aluminium boat, "windows" and all...
20 k US$ for the m with 2-5 mm thickness...
and since it is essentially a ceramic (even if aluminium based) you can bake it in any form you like... i just use to call it "transparent aluminium" since i am an old treky...
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