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  #6221  
Old 02-19-2014
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

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You know that material can be made bullet proof and the ones used on boats on that position are incredibly though. It is more a question of height and the way it is sported. Do you really think that small height front of Plexiglas sported on aluminium will be dangerous?
...
oh i know all that, but why should one do so, if you could just design it differently?
transparent aluminium anyone?
this is btw quite the same stuff you have on your watches around your wrist... but we all knew that lieutenant commander montgomery scott gave away the recipe back in 1986...

besides even if i have no doubts that the designers made their homework regarding impact resistance, it still is not an appealing design to me...
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  #6222  
Old 02-19-2014
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Another sail test on the RM 890



This one (by Voile et Voiliers) more than a simple contact it is a better one, more precise and informative regarding wind and sea conditions, performance and things that could be better.

The version tested was the one with twin keels and a single rudder, a deep one. Even so they say that in limit situations, with too much heel, the rudder has a tendency to "ventiler", that I would translate by losing grip. They say that it would be better a solution with twin keels and two rudders (like some others RM can have). Off course, it is not by chance that the shipyard chose that solution regarding cruising but because it allows (as you can see on the picture) a third support point for balancing the boat while beaching it. Not a strong one but one that can be important just to maintain the balance.

The boat on this configuration has a draft of 1.5m and is RCD classified as a class B boat. On the version with single keel (1.9m) and two rudders it is classified as a A boat.

Regarding things they did not like: A feeling a bit stiff on the tiller (single rudder), the galley storage not well thought and the standing height a bit limit...and that's all in a boat that they found proportionally lighter and faster than the other RM series. They also refereed a good finish and that in what regards sailing all is perfect: the position for steering the boat, the way all rigging is done regarding a solo sailor, with everything at easy reach.

They also refer a great storage on the cockpit, with a double central locker for the life raft and dinghy, a big lateral one for sails, outboard engine, boat defenses and also a big anchor locker.

Regarding performances they were a lot clearer and more complete than on a previous test I had already talked about.

with a sea almost with no waves they were surprised with a very good performance with light winds and I say surprised because on this type of very beamy hulls upwind performance in light winds is normally a weak point.

Main sail and genoa: 7K wind 5.1K speed at 50º off TRW.
Main sail and genoa: 9k wind 5.4K speed at 50º off TRW.
Main sail and genoa: 9k wind 6.7K speed at 70º off TRW.

Mainsail and Ass.Spi: 7k wind 6.0K speed at 90º off TRW.
Mainsail and Ass.Spi: 11k wind 8.4K speed at 100º off TRW.
Mainsail and Ass.Spi: 11k wind 7.3K speed at 140º off TRW.

As you can see the overall performance is very good for a cruiser with 9m. Going at almost 8.5K with only 11k wind is outstanding and already way over hull speed. From then on, with more wind I am quite sure the speed will increase rapidly and this baby will be able to do 2 figure speeds with strong winds, adequate sails and a good sailor at the tiller.

Even without nothing of that, just with an average sailor and only with genoa the boat is already making almost 7K with 9K winds. It is a pity they didn't refer the speed with 11k with only genoa but I would say that it would be around 7K or just a bit over. A very fast cruiser that can be even faster, specially upwind on the version with a single keel and deep draft.

The boat seems to sail so well that maybe they contemplate making a "RC" version with a really deep keel, something like 2.3m. That would save a considerable weight in ballast, would allow the boat to plane earlier and would improve even more the upwind potential making it a boat to make the transquadra. The hull seems to deserve it
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Last edited by PCP; 02-19-2014 at 05:35 PM.
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  #6223  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

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Originally Posted by capt vimes View Post
oh i know all that, but why should one do so, if you could just design it differently?
transparent aluminium anyone?
Aluminium oxynitride - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
this is btw quite the same stuff you have on your watches around your wrist... but we all knew that lieutenant commander montgomery scott gave away the recipe back in 1986...

besides even if i have no doubts that the designers made their homework regarding impact resistance, it still is not an appealing design to me...
That's more like it I would say that I agree with you that shape seems not to have any functional purpose even if I doubt that in what regards impact would be very different than a simple vertical one (maybe even better in all impact directions except a straight one). Anyway given the small height and the support an aluminium structure can give, not a problem in what regards functionality also.

That leaves us on the aesthetically field and there I would have to look better at it. Certainly unusual and even if I have no doubts that in what regards interior space and interior view it is not a good idea, a slightly curved form from the outside view can give an interesting outlook (but I would like to see it better). Personally I would not have traded a slightly more interesting exterior outlook (if it is the case) by a poor interior feeling...but it is just me. In what regards aesthetics we are on a much more subjective field.

Regarding transparent Aluminium I did not know about it. it seems hard and expensive to make and I did not saw curved surfaces but maybe in the future we could see an all aluminium boat, "windows" and all

Regards

Paulo
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Last edited by PCP; 02-19-2014 at 08:48 AM.
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  #6224  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

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Regarding transparent Aluminium I did not know about it. it seems hard and expensive to make and I did not saw curved surfaces but maybe in the future we could see an all aluminium boat, "windows" and all...
20 k US$ for the m² with 2-5 mm thickness...
and since it is essentially a ceramic (even if aluminium based) you can bake it in any form you like... i just use to call it "transparent aluminium" since i am an old treky...
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

I'm liking the look/concept of the RMs more and more.. looks like a fun boat to own and sail.

I'm wondering if they are prone to pounding in a chop with those flat forward sections? Even more extreme than the flat sections on some IOR designs, which are known to pound quite badly...
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

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I'm liking the look/concept of the RMs more and more.. looks like a fun boat to own and sail.

I'm wondering if they are prone to pounding in a chop with those flat forward sections? Even more extreme than the flat sections on some IOR designs, which are known to pound quite badly...
I talked with one owner he said that "pounding in a chop is only a noticeable while motoring"
I understood that as soon as the boat heels over there is no problem with the flatness in the middle.
RM 1260
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  #6227  
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FIPOFIX and Norbert Sedlacek

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Originally Posted by capt vimes View Post
20 k US$ for the m² with 2-5 mm thickness...
and since it is essentially a ceramic (even if aluminium based) you can bake it in any form you like... i just use to call it "transparent aluminium" since i am an old treky...
Yes those kind of materials will have a huge use in the future. What makes them expensive now is the high technology needed to make them but I suspect that it will end in the future, not the technology needed but the costs involved in using it. We have already talked about Salonas using Carbon/Basalt bulkheads and also about Fipofix...and talking about that let's have some news about my preferred lunatic: Norbert Sedlacek on its tiny mini yellow racer made of fipofix (Vulcanic Carbon fiber):



Yes I think that he is mad but that does not mean that I do not have a huge respect for him his resilience and sailing skills, even a lot more now than some time ago.

Norbert is alone on an Atlantic Transat, on a particularly bad and stormy year and it looks that he had managed to make the worst part of the voyage, since he is now, after 33 days at sea, past the Canary Islands. He is not much worried because he says he has provisions for more 60 days.

In fact he is quite happy now that he is approaching the trade winds. If you think (like me) that all this is a bit mad let me say that he is without autopilot almost from the beginning and stays outside on the cold on a Dry-suit 19 to 20 hours a day. He says that eating, using the head or sleeping is a bit acrobatic or involves some sort of heaving...and I believe him

He deserves a big Chapeau for having reached here steering by hand on a minuscule boat on very adverse conditions and many chapeaus if he manages to reach St. Augustine / Florida. I hope that some of you are there to receive him. He is mad but what a feat and what a sailor

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Last edited by PCP; 02-19-2014 at 11:24 AM.
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Rm 890

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Originally Posted by knuterikt View Post
I talked with one owner he said that "pounding in a chop is only a noticeable while motoring"
I understood that as soon as the boat heels over there is no problem with the flatness in the middle.
RM 1260
This photo may help to explain that:



The bottom is in V but heeling upwind the boat will not be falling on the bottom but on the side and since, even if very beamy, has fine entries, as you can see by the deck form near the bow, on this photo....



the boat will not pound excessively. Besides, as Erick can explain here better than anybody, you don't sail these boat like I sail mine going upwind with less than 30º apparent wind but with a bigger angle because these boats, with their huge power, go much faster a bit more out of the wind and can compensate that way in VMG. In the end you take waves at a much better angle and that will also allow for less pounding than if you took then really hard on the wind.

Regards

Paulo
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  #6229  
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Re: Rm 890

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Originally Posted by PCP View Post
This photo may help to explain that:

The bottom is in V but heeling upwind the boat will not be falling on the bottom but on the side and since, even if very beamy, has fine entries, as you can see by the deck form near the bow, on this photo....

the boat will not pound excessively. Besides, as Erick can explain here better than anybody, you don't sail these boat like I sail mine going upwind with less than 30º apparent wind but with a bigger angle because these boats, with their huge power, go much faster a bit more out of the wind and can compensate that way in VMG. In the end you take waves at a much better angle and that will also allow for less pounding than if you took then really hard on the wind.

Regards

Paulo
I was looking for a picture like that
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Alumarine 48

A voyage aluminium cat it is not unheard but pretty unusual. Alumarine has one on the market designed by Pierre Delion. It has just hit the water.

I cannot say I like the Cabin, particularly its flat big "windows" and big lateral windage. I don't like also that frontal "door" or that living space ahead but in what regards hull design and rig design, I like it. Many of those details have to do with the first owner and the boat is easily transformable in something more interesting since the aluminium has that advantage: no molds, so easily modifiable.







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