Interesting Sailboats - Page 624 - SailNet Community
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post #6231 of 6763 Old 02-21-2014 Thread Starter
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RM 1260: Maiden voyage on a new boat

Nice video for several reasons: a Rm 1260 chasing a Jeanneau 409 (also a fast boat). We can see that the Jeanneau is marginally slower and sails with more heel with gusts having more effect on stability while the RM is rock solid and could probably take more sail.

On autopilot the RM would have no trouble in keeping the course on these conditions while on the Jeanneau they would probably have to take some sail down. The Jeanneau is much more closer to the limit than the RM.

Also interesting in what regards to show the visibility from the interior to the outside: nice in what regards looking at the scenery but very useful to be inside with bad or disagreeable weather keeping an eye on the sails and on the horizon.



also interesting this comment by the owner and sailor:..."you do not hear the hull/rigging making any noise."


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post #6232 of 6763 Old 02-21-2014 Thread Starter
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Pogo 10.50: Maiden voyage

And since we are talking about maiden voyages look at these old salts (the owner and some friends) sailing home, to Norway, a brand new Pogo 10.50 from France by the Irish Sea, the Caledonian Canal, and crossing the North-Sea from Inverness to Kristiansand.

"1400 nautical miles on 13 days. Lot's of surfing. Max speed: 21 knots in a surf outside Lindesnes, Norway."



Decidedly the Pogo as a cruising boat is not a "French" mania anymore neither it is a boat only for athletes or young sailors. They seem to having a great time and lots of sailing fun
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Rm 1360

We have talked a lot about the RM 890 but not much about the big brother that is also a very recent boat, the 1360, a blue water passagemaker and a voyage boat, a fast one.

The boat was tested recently by Yacht.de and for what I can tell they were impressed. If someone is really interested on the boat the test is available in PDF on line (in German) and their tests are among the best.

A new look: We stay with the pictures a movie in English with a strong French accent and another short one that shows how easy and comfortably the boat goes at a fast cruising speed.
















30/09/2013 - RM 1360 UK por Voilesnews



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Extreme series: Today's most impressive images



Alinghy dominated and leads. The boat that was hit violently (Realstone) will come probably in second since it was not their fault and the points will be redressed according with their previous average performance that was a great one. They are repairing that big hole during the night.

Impressive: Two Swiss boats on the lead...and they only have lakes


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post #6235 of 6763 Old 02-22-2014
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Re: RM 1260: Maiden voyage on a new boat

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Originally Posted by PCP View Post
also interesting this comment by the owner and sailor:..."you do not hear the hull/rigging making any noise."
But the very best is listening to KRAFTWERK inside while the wife is at the helm...
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

An intrepid voyager on a small steel boat from Australia.
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post #6237 of 6763 Old 02-22-2014 Thread Starter
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

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Originally Posted by aeventyr60 View Post
An intrepid voyager on a small steel boat from Australia.
The hull seems nice (what I can see) but I don't understand the steel mast neither the use of steel on the hull and much less on the cabin for such a small sailboat. The rig seems also unusual (junk rig?) and smallish for the weight of the boat. It seems to have a small extension at the bow for a downwind sail but on a boat with that weight I would have expected a big spy or reacher pole, like on some traditional heavy traditional boats.

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Dufour 31 and Dufour 310 GL

I have been waiting to find pictures of the new 310GL, particularly from the hull, that is a very nice one, but I can't find anything. That's odd because the boat was presented at the Paris boat show and then in Dusseldorf where I visited the boat (and where impressed). It is also selling very well but when I search for Images of Dufour 310 I am overwhelmed with images of the older model and there is a reason for it. The Dufour 31 was one of the greatest designs ever and one that contributed very strongly for the growing of Dufour as a brand.

So, contrary to what is usual I will indulge a bit on boat history and I will look at an old hull before looking to the new one.

The design of the 31 is from Michel Dufour and appeared following the one of a very modern boat for its time, the Arpege (30ft -1966) from the same designer (1500 boats built in 10 years):

ARPEGE 30 (DUFOUR) sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com

The 31 (400 boats built in 6 years):

DUFOUR 31 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com







This is a 41 year's old design. I bet that at the time it would have looked incredibly modern and I would say fragile to many since the boat only weighted 4355kg and from those 1677kg were ballast in a boat that had an unusually big draft (at the time) for a 31ft boat: 1.73m

The hull should also have appeared very beamy to many and the transom huge (compared with the Arpege - 1st image), as huge and beamy the new 31 GL will look now to many now







To be fair to Michel Dufour there is a much bigger time lapse between the Dufour 31 and the 31Gl than between the 30ft Arpege and the 310GL ( 7 years compared with 40) so in fact the evolution from the Arpege to the 31 is bigger if we take time into consideration.

The beam of the three modes were: 3.02m, 3.20m, 3.31m

The weight: 3493kg, 4355kg, 9940kg

Ballast: 1383kg, 1677kg, 1300kg

The deep draft: 1.40m, 1,73m, 1.90m

The LWL: 6.71m, 7.01m, 8.70m

The sail Area upwind: 35.52m2, 36.74m2, 50.3m2

The much smaller ballast of the new boat shows the importance of draft and of a modern bulbed or torpedo keel in what regards diminishing the weight of needed ballast.

The huge difference in LWL shows the hull evolution on this determinant factor for boat performance and the differences in sail area are proportional to the overall stability and RM of the boats and shows the importance of today's hulls in what regards the contribution of form stability to the overall stability. The increase in weight is somewhat proportional to the increase to the boat hull area and boat volume.

I like very much the Felci designed hull of the 310Gl but only time will tell if it will be as successful as the other two. I doubt since today boat evolution is much faster and the boats become obsolete much faster.

The new 310GL has also a great interior, an amazing one in comfort, interior space and functionality for a 31ft boat:








Don't miss the virtual visit to the interior:

310 - Grand Large - DUFOUR Yachts





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post #6239 of 6763 Old 02-22-2014
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

No, the transom on the 31 would not have looked huge at all. This boat was designed to be measured under the IOR as was typical of the time. Most mom and pop boats of that day were designed with many IOR influences even if not intended as race boats. This Dufour is a good exmple. Part of that IOR influence was a very small transom in order to control the AGS and AIGS, girth stations aft. These small transoms are a dead give away that this boat is heavily IOR infuenced. You can see the same influences on the Arpege 30 designed in the tail end of the RORC rule. RORC also encouraged a narrow transom as it too used girth stations to detemnine "L". The IOR adopted the RORC girth station method of determining "L". That lead to a whole era of boats with pinched ends. I had the fun of doing some long distance races on an Arpege 30 many years ago. It was a slow boat in light air and had a small rig to allow it, I think, to rate half ton class. Good little boat and popular but boring to sail.

You could propbably attribute the reverse curve , concavity, in the bow profile also to the rule. This concavity would have squeezed the FGS and FIGS, flor ward girth stations, together to help reduuce "L" or measured lenghth.


I think it is best to discuss hull shapes from the 70's with some idea of how they were influenced by the IOR. Just like today, even if the boat is not intended as a racer everyone wants to think their boat looks like a racer.

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Main market production hulls are not influenced by rating rules anymore.

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Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
No, the transom on the 31 would not have looked huge at all. This boat was designed to be measured under the IOR as was typical of the time. Most mom and pop boats of that day were designed with many IOR influences even if not intended as race boats. This Dufour is a good exmple. Part of that IOR influence was a very small transom in order to control the AGS and AIGS, girth stations aft. These small transoms are a dead give away that this boat is heavily IOR infuenced. You can see the same influences on the Arpege 30 designed in the tail end of the RORC rule. RORC also encouraged a narrow transom as it too used girth stations to detemnine "L". The IOR adopted the RORC girth station method of determining "L". That lead to a whole era of boats with pinched ends. I had the fun of doing some long distance races on an Arpege 30 many years ago. It was a slow boat in light air and had a small rig to allow it, I think, to rate half ton class. Good little boat and popular but boring to sail.

You could propbably attribute the reverse curve , concavity, in the bow profile also to the rule. This concavity would have squeezed the FGS and FIGS, flor ward girth stations, together to help reduuce "L" or measured lenghth.


I think it is best to discuss hull shapes from the 70's with some idea of how they were influenced by the IOR. Just like today, even if the boat is not intended as a racer everyone wants to think their boat looks like a racer.
Yes of course everybody knows that racing has a lot of influence in what regards hull shape and the way boats are rated also but the point regards racing boats is to make faster boats and even if sometime rating rules become obsolete and limit boat development in what regards speed potential it is also true that they have been changing accompanying boat evolution and allowing for better and faster boats.

The Dufour Arpege is much slower than the Dufour 31 and the Dufour 31GL is much faster than the 31. That has not to do with the way boats are rated but with hull evolution and absolute boat performance.

Today (happily) in what regards main cruising boat evolution the boats are no more designed to rate well under any system but designed to perform as well and comfortably as possible, offering a good interior space. In fact the Dufour GL will rate badly under IRC or ORC.

That is due to the change on offer regarding the type of boats that is much bigger today. The chances of a buyer of a Dufour 31 GL to indulge in some racing besides cruising are so slim that they are not taken into consideration in what regards hull design anymore. A owner interested in doing that will buy a Dufour from the performance series, an Elan, a Salona or a First.

This was not the reality in Europe 40 years ago were the choice of boats were much more limited and a boat like the Arpege or the Dufour 31 would be used for both things. I believe that is a bit what still happens in the US regarding club racing but not what happens here anymore.

Regards

Paulo


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