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  #6231  
Old 02-19-2014
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Unhappy Sad Images

and even so two impressive notes:

That wreck was maintained afloat by the system devised to make it unsinkable, even broken in two and pushed down by almost 4 T of ballast.

even in that state and battered for more than a week by a huge storm that keel maintains itself attached to the hull.

I hope they can found out what went wrong on that hull and if needed take preventive measures to make these boats even more seaworthy.











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  #6232  
Old 02-19-2014
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Juan K and team has some explaining to do - first Rambler 100 (Speedboat) capsize in the Fastnet a couple years ago, Artemis AC72 breakup and death of Bart, now Cheminees IMCO 60 broken into a few bits???
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  #6233  
Old 02-19-2014
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

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Originally Posted by Edward3 View Post
Juan K and team has some explaining to do - first Rambler 100 (Speedboat) capsize in the Fastnet a couple years ago, Artemis AC72 breakup and death of Bart, now Cheminees IMCO 60 broken into a few bits???
Or maybe that happens more to the ones that have many top racing boats. It happens more to him because he has more top offshore racing boats than anyone else. His boats dominated the two last VOR and did not broke.

Rambler lost the keel and capsized due to that. I can remember several top racing boats that lost canting keels. They are still learning about reliability on canting keels, mostly in what regards metal fatigue. Rambler was far from new when he lost the keel. Maybe some pieces should have been changed already. That kind of calculations regarding efforts on keels and even the building of the canting keels themselves as to do with engineers and it is a very specialized subject.

Cutting edge boats, even some cruising ones are today designed by a team. The NA is the leader of the team but he is there for the general concept and to keep the team on track. The design is a cooperative effort.

Regarding Artemis America's cup cat he was just one in a team. Those boats are designed by an even bigger number of specialists. If you want to blame somebody blame the engineer responsible for the boat structure and efforts calculation.

I am not saying that in what regard Cheminees Poujoulat there was not a problem with the design. I don't know. The boat was holed and repaired on the area where it broke. Let's see what they can find from the analysis of the wreck before putting blame on somebody.

Regards

Paulo
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Last edited by PCP; 02-19-2014 at 07:50 PM.
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  #6234  
Old 02-20-2014
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Onne van der Wal

I have been posting here about great marine photographers and film makers. The object of his work are boats and great images and we love boats and are most grateful to the ones that provide us with great images. I have no doubt that they love boats too.

Today we are going to talk about the Dutch Onne van der wall. Born in Holland, raised in the Dutch South African community and living in America on the last 30 years, in Newport.

No more talking since the images will talk by themselves:

Shooting on the water with Onne from Onne van der Wal on Vimeo.



Onne video show reel December 2013 from Onne van der Wal on Vimeo.

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Last edited by PCP; 02-20-2014 at 07:23 AM.
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Old 02-20-2014
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Re: Sad Images

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Originally Posted by PCP View Post
That wreck was maintained afloat by the system devised to make it unsinkable, even broken in two and pushed down by almost 4 T of ballast...
it must have broken in at least 3 pieces...
there is the rather large middle part from the forward bulkhead to the keel and maststep area missing in your images...
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  #6236  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

The 10.80 is in the water:
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  #6237  
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Re: Sad Images

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Originally Posted by capt vimes View Post
it must have broken in at least 3 pieces...
there is the rather large middle part from the forward bulkhead to the keel and maststep area missing in your images...
Yes you are right. There is a piece missing and that was the piece where the boat broke, I mean the junction of that piece with the main hull. The bow broke later under the action of a week of stormy weather.

Regards

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  #6238  
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VX one

This is one of the most interesting small boat racers coming on the American Market. The boat comes after the Viper 640 designed by Brian Bennett, much similar in design criteria to the 10 year old Open 5.70 and Open 7.50 by Finot. The objective is almost the same even if the boa has some differences, being the Finot boats more pointed to easiness and short crew racing, even solo with better offshore potential.

The relatively new VX one corresponds to the Open 5.0 and points to a more accessible and less expensive boat, an initiation boat but also a fast one.

The hull design proved to be a great one and there is a lot of noise about who is responsible for that hull that is many times incorrectly fully attributed to Bennett himself. Putting the record straight: "The VX team includes lead design and concepts by Viper 640 designer, Brian Bennett, naval architecture and design engineering by Ross Weene and Rodger Martin"

That of course if it makes clear that the lead was from Bennett (following a simplified Viper concept) does not say who actually designed that hull that is very different from the one from the Viper, a hull here chines have an important role.

The Ker type of transom and hull on the 640 with absence of chines allows the boat to sail with heel taking advantage of all hull surface giving a max RM at considerable heel, coming not only from hull form stability but from the 84kg of ballast and weight of the crew on the rail.





VIPER 640 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com

On the VX one even if the boat has a not very different B/D ratio, for a similar keel, the hull is designed to provide max hull form stability at a much lower angle.





VX ONE-DESIGN sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com

In fact very different approaches and while on the Viper that would provide a better upwind performance, on the VX one that approach should provide an easier and faster downwind performance.

The downwind performance potential is evident on these videos:





Brian Bennett says about the boat:

“Designer Brian Bennett says the idea behind the VX One Design was to build the fastest possible sportboat …while delivering serious value for your money. If you’re familiar with the Volvo Open 70 class, you’ll recognize the similarities: a nearly plumb bow, carbon-fiber spars, chines that run from the transom to the bow section, a flat-top mainsail and a surfing-friendly undercarriage.”

Regarding the hull, if it has some similarities with the VOR ones it as also some differences in what regards chines and their use. In fact the chines on the VOR allows for a much bigger heel upwind before coming into action:





More like the ones on an Open 60 even if on the VX one they seem more extreme in what regards the heel angle where they become effective, with very little heel:



Anyway the boat seems to sail at least reasonably well upwind:

VXOne 2013 North American's in Dallas, TX. from Onne van der Wal on Vimeo.





I would love to hear about sailors with experience sailing the VX one regarding upwind performance and if they have also experience in the Viper, about the comparative performance.
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  #6239  
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Jpk 10.80

Quote:
Originally Posted by robelz View Post
The 10.80 is in the water:
JPK
WOW!!!!! What a difference regarding the Sunfast, I mean the cruising interior a Beautiful one. This one is not only a racer but also a performance cruiser.







Very nice hull. It seems very well balanced between upwind, downwind, crewed and solo sailing performance.
This one has a IRC keel. I bet they will change the keel for the Transquadra. That story about the keels is plain dumb. Can't they find a way to stop that in what regards rating? Why the hell have the boats to come with less efficient keels to have a better rating regarding performance?















That forward view from the interior does not seem odd. I confess I had some doubts about that, in what regards the interior and it seems functional too giving a forward view and that is very important for long range solo sailing.
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Last edited by PCP; 02-20-2014 at 01:27 PM.
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  #6240  
Old 02-20-2014
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Re: Jpk 10.80

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Originally Posted by PCP View Post
That forward view from the interior does not seem odd. I confess I had some doubts about that, in what regards the interior and it seems functional too giving a forward view and that is very important for long range solo sailing.
Paulo -

That design also enables them to run the transverse jib track further inboard, making for a very tight sheeting angle upwind, something we've seen evolve in the TP52 class. The alternative would be to use a floating system, as the Minis and some other classes are doing, but that involves a few more control lines. And since this boat is using only non-overlapping headsails, it's probably a good decision.

As you mention, it's also nice to have the forward view from down below, if only for checking jib / spi trim.

Truly a gorgeous boat and I love the interior. This one is going to win some races, without doubt.
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