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  #6281  
Old 02-23-2014
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Miti:
Yep, that's the boat. I did Swiftsure on one, twice. The second time was the beginning of the blooper era. We borrowed a chute from a lightning Class sloop and tried to fly it like a blooper. They were very good boats, stiff and relatively fast. Nice and roomy and pretty well built. I always thought they had a nice clean look to them.

They had one area where you had to be careful. Look at that profile drawing. Focus on the rudder. In reverse if you let go of the rudder it would spin arouind and hit the prop.

Robert Finch was a full time fireman in So Cal and a part time yacht designer. This was his most succesful design. The next boat Islander produced was my Islander 28.
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  #6282  
Old 02-23-2014
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Bermuda 77

On another thread there was some talk about this boat, a Shionning design. Schionning design would be much bigger if it was not an Australian cabinet, away from the main markets. Their expertise in Cats is just great and they have some of the best designs around.

The Bermuda 77 was built in South Africa and are going to be used as a charter in the Bermudas. That's a new tendency in what regards luxury charter boats and many big cats are being built for that market. This one looks great:

















Schionning Designs from Julie Geldard on Vimeo.

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  #6283  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by mitiempo View Post
This is the Islander 30 that Bob is referring to:




Thanks Mitiempo, I know. That is a 1970 (73?) design. The Arpege is a 1966 design. In 1966 the current Islander 29 was a boat with an old designed keel, kind of a modified full keel, a slow boat.

All the discussion was about Bob saying that the Arpege was a slow boat and a boring boat to sail. That has to do with the type of boat the Arpege is, I mean being slow. Bob thought that the Arpege was a race boat or a sports boat. It was not. It was a main market big production coastal cruiser and the best selling cruiser in Europe for several years.

To compare the Arpege with an American boat, to see if it is slow or boring, you would have to compare it with a boat of the same segment and a boat from the same time (1966) and from the same segment market: main market, meaning the type of boats that sell more (that's what make them main market).

Bob gave as example of a boat that only appeared 4 years after the Arpege was on the market and one type of boat that was not main market on the American market. I don't know the American market of the end of the 60's, beginning of the 70's but I noticed that on that period of time the Columbia type was much more popular than the Islander (sold much more when the Arpege was in production) and therefore it was a much better base of comparison as two main market boats, regarding being boring or slow.

Four years later, at about the same time the boat Bob is referring was launched appeared on the European market the Scampi 30 a Swedish boat designed by the Swede Peter Norlin. That was a much more sportive and expensive boat, sold in small numbers and that for 3 years dominated the half ton cup. Not main market for sure

Anyway Bob is contradicting himself : he says that the Arpege is radical for its time and is a race boat and then says that as a main market cruiser (that's what the boat is) is slow and boring.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
The fact that the Arpege won the Half Ton Cup proves, to at least it's crew, that it was a racing boat. if it were not a race boat I sincerely doubt it would have entered the half Ton Cup series.

If you look at the competition for the 1966 Half Ton Cup you will see that the Arpege with it's fin keel and separate rudder was almost "radical" for it's time. In those days many boats still had full keels.
...
Bottom point, what I said and repeat is that the boat in 1966 had a remarkable performance for a main market mass production coastal cruiser, so good that it won several races, a thing that was not intended on his design program. As Bob agrees it was a radical boat for its time and one that helped to spread the concept of a modern boat with a fin ballasted keel and a rudder well away from the keel. Certainly not a boring or slow boat for 1966.




Regards

Paulo
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Last edited by PCP; 02-24-2014 at 02:17 PM.
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  #6284  
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New Finot 100ft Nomad IV

I only wish that guy stop cutting the movie and let us see this carbon beauty. What a waste of a movie. Couldn't they have a professional doing that movie, being that a multi-million boat and all?


Teaser Nomad IV, 100' full carbon cruiser from Tanguy Conq on Vimeo.

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  #6285  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Yes, your holyness. Once again you are so right.
I am so sorry to have an opinion.
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Bob P.
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Last edited by bobperry; 02-23-2014 at 08:14 PM.
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  #6286  
Old 02-24-2014
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

First race with the new SF 3600, new A35 and new JPK 10.80:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.n...43317939_o.jpg
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  #6287  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

A35

I think these pics are from the new A35. At least the 2 pictures from the trade fair are.
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"New" A35

Quote:
Originally Posted by robelz View Post
A35

I think these pics are from the new A35. At least the 2 pictures from the trade fair are.
Yes, they are. There are two movies that show the boat. The interiors looked great before I saw those of the new JPK 10.80. Now they just look good for the type of boat





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Re: Interesting Sailboats

The A35's hull looks better to me, but I will never buy a boat by this criteria...
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Sunfast 3600 / JPK 10.80

Quote:
Originally Posted by robelz View Post
First race with the new SF 3600, new A35 and new JPK 10.80:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.n...43317939_o.jpg
That's an incredibly good result for the JPK that not only looks to have a much heavier (and good) interior as they had very little time for fine tuning the boat and rig.

The guys that are at the wheel of the two boats are also very interesting:

On the Sunfast Luc Gellusseau an old timer than knows one or two things about sailing, have been the skipper of the French american's cup boat (monohulls) and 8 times world champion (in different boats), Admiral's Cup winner in 1991 and raced 5 times the America's cup.

On the JPK another old timer, the builder himself, JP Kelbert with mostly a past as solo sailor but also not a stranger to regatta sailing.

It is very significant that both boats have beaten all competition, a strong one: 4 A35 a JPK 110 and a Mat 10.10.

I had a better look at the different races with special incidence on the real times:

1st race:

SUN FAST 3600...........01:20:50
A 35 ........................01:20:56
JPK 10.80...................01:21:05

2nd race:

JPK 10.80....................01:27:38
SUN FAST 3600............01:28:38
JPK 110.......................01:30:15

3rd race:

SUN FAST 3600.............01:11:12
A 35............................01:11:53
JPK 10.80.....................01:12:13

4th race- coastal race:

A 35 ..........................01:10:42
SUN FAST 3600.............01:11:19
JPK 10.80.....................01:12:29

2ème Challenge de Printemps 2014 : inscrits et classements

Very interesting results that show two boats very close in performances and also a A35 that is very close too. Pity we had not a JPK 10.10 racing. The 110 is a bigger, older and slower boat.... and even so come in 3th in one race.

Some 6 years ago I visited Jean-Pierre on its small shipyard to see a 110 that was one of the boats that I was considering to have as a cruising boat. Great boat still today and JPK a very nice guy that can adapt a boat to your needs like a tailored suit: the guy knows about everything regarding the needs of a solo racer, a crew racing and short handed cruising and is happy to make all the needed changes on his sailboats.

As unexpected the poor result of the Mat 10.10, a new Mills design and a boat that on the paper looks very fast. Here in real time on the coastal race could not beat neither a Grand Soleil 37 neither the JPK 110, a bit bigger those two but with a lower rating. The regatta results were not good also.

Regards

Paulo
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