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  #6291  
Old 02-24-2014
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Jpk 10.80

JPK is speaking a lot (about the shipyard and about this boat) but in the meantime we can have a better look at the hull.

The boat has already proved that is very at ease on the regatta field. Next big challenge will be the Spi Ouest were he will really see its performance against the best boats on the IRC circuit and for solo or short crew racing we will see on the Fastnet and on the Transquadra.

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  #6292  
Old 02-24-2014
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German Frers, a cutting edge old timer NA.

German Frers is best known for the lovely swans from the 80’s, cutting edge at the time, magnificent cruiser racers that many still associate now with the perfect offshore cruiser.

Also known by his more conservative work since 89 with Halberg-Rassy but few will associate it with its contemporary cutting edge work for Wally.

The Frers family has the future assured in what regards the continuation of a major NA contribution to yacht design : German learned with his father and continued his work and now Mani is already working side by side with Frers.

Let’s look at some of their more recent work:

First a daysailer, a 60ft and an absolutely beautiful boat…incredibly fast too:

“Ciao Gianni” (a tribute to Gianni Agnelli) was born around the pleasure of day sailing. This is a combination of power, efficiency and acceleration.

Single handling sailing, easy maintenance, reliability and the possibility of sailing in any wind condition were the only requirements from an expert owner who had a successful Frers day sailer before."












Wally Indio:

"The design concept of Indio gravitates around efficiency.

Even in the lightest breeze she has to deliver an exciting performance and at the same time be a seaworthy yacht for long passages in bad weather.

The above will also reduce auxiliary engine power and fuel consumption while providing the guests with maximum amount of sailing time.

This approach requires the use of the latest technologies for design, construction and onboard systems.

The hull is a new generation shape developed for maximum performance and enhanced sea keeping capabilities using Tank Testing, Computational Fluid Dynamic, feedback from previous designs and new ideas….

The appendages package is a direct result from the racing developments with maximum control as the priority.

The simple Sail Plan has been refined with endless iterations together with the hull and appendages to come up with the best package.

The construction method makes extensive use of carbon fibre to achieve a though structure able to sustain the loads associated with this type of yacht in any weather condition plus high speed impact or running aground cases….

The deck layout, with its two cockpits offers plenty of privacy for the guests and the teak coachroof provides many options for enjoying the deck.

This simple layout allows for all manoeuvres to be completed with minimum crew and clatter.

The onboard systems, from the two gear direct steering system to the powered assisted sail controls, work flawlessly; key for a thrilling sail.Having completed the trials at the Superyacht Regatta in Porto Cervo both in light airs and strong breeze, achieving speeds above 20 knots while comfortably enjoying the ride with a friendly crew is a testament of the sound design, engineering and construction quality achieved."











And already with some years Wally Magic Carpet II: a lifting keel yacht that has won several maxi races, able also to provide luxurious cruising:










But it seems his owner wants it better and faster so there are plans for a Magic carpet III, a 130ft yacht. It looks more sharp and nicer than the previous Margic Carpet and I bet it will be faster:

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  #6293  
Old 02-25-2014
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Slightly off topic: This is what I call "meat on the rail"...

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  #6294  
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Latin sails

Quote:
Originally Posted by robelz View Post
Slightly off topic: This is what I call "meat on the rail"...
...

Great movies and great sailing images are always on topic. For me there is no sail more elegant and beautiful than a Latin rig. Unfortunately beautiful does not mean more efficient or most of all, easy to manage. There is still a lot of serious racing going one with Latin sails on traditional boats: The Spanish have a championship and the Arabs too.

The hulls are also beautiful and modern in a way that they maximize hull form stability: beautiful hulls on your movie and beautiful hulls and sails here:



















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  #6295  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Hi Bob,
You will find tons of pictures on the (french) web site "Voiles alternatives", especially under the "Ailes souples / Soft wings" folder.

May I plead for another type of "Mom & Mop" sails ? It's the "Ljungström sails evolution", an actual Lazy Pop system ! I made a page (in french again, sorry) about this : nauticaltrek.com/12771-2-voiles-ferlables-sur-mats-non-haubanes-montaubin-hobie-raptor-etc

Eric
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  #6296  
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German Frers Swan 60 and a comparative look at some previous models.

German Frers had designed not only super yachts, but many production boats for the biggest shipyards like Dufour, Grand Soleil, Moody, Beneteau, Hylas, besides all Halberg-Rassy and Swan since the 80’s.

Regarding the Swan and since he is designing them for the past 30 years and the boats have always maintained the same basic program : cruiser–racers in a luxurious and not radical way, it would be very interesting not only to look at the Swan 60 but also to other successful designs along the years with about the same size to have a view at how hull, keel and ruder design have been evolving along the years allowing for better, faster and safer boats.

Off course, all performance cruisers that are meant to race as well as cruising have hulls influenced by racing boats since these represent the state of the art in what regards performance and they are also influence by the rating rules that are there not to influence design but to rate with fairness sailing boats. At some time they all create distortions but then they are changed to allow faster and more modern boats to be competitive.

In the end, looking at the global picture, more than the boats being influenced by rating rules it is the boat design development towards better and faster sailboats that promote the changes in rating rules. That does not mean that looking at a particular and localized period of time the opposite is not also true, with particular relevance some decades ago, meaning that some sailboat, particularly, cruiser-racer designs (that are always influenced in some extent by the existent rating), were heavily influenced by the distortions created by rating, trying to take the better deal out of it.

In some past cases, particularly in the 80’s that influence was really big creating in some cases less fast and less seaworthy sailboats in an attempt to protect the existent fleet from more light, stiff and faster sailingboats.

Saying this it is very clear that regarding these Swan models, the more recent is always a better sailboat regarding the previous one and regarding a comparison between the first, the 1980 Swan 51, and the last one, the 2009 Swan 60 the difference in performance, interior space, overall stability and speed is huge.

Consider also that the Swan and typically almost all Nordic boats are very conservative in what regards boat design. The Swan is considered a model of elegance precisely due to its almost classic lines regarding the time of its making, generally regarding all models. The hulls follow the same trend and even if always to the state of the art always followed a classical approach, meaning on tradition and evolving rather than radical or revolutionary.

That makes them particularly interesting for this time comparison even if the first design (1980 Swan 51) is substantially influenced by the IOR rule (that disappeared at the beginning of the 90’s). After 1990 the rating rules become much more adapted to sailboat developments searching a better sailing performance and the rules were increasingly modified to take into account new design improvements. Today the two major handicap rules, the IRC and ORC are revised each year and even if the IRC remains a partially secret formula, the ORC (with an open one) counts on its technical committee (that is responsible for those annual changes) with some of the best NA, in what regards to handicap racing design. There are serious plans to join the two major rating handicap systems on a single one in a near future.

In this comparison take also in consideration that beam in sailboat design (for the same type of boat) is not entirely proportional to the length of the boat and therefore a 60 would always have a more elongated shape than a 50 ft boat and that one the same regarding a 40ft boat.

The hulls, rudders and keels speak for themselves and the evolution direction is obvious and not particular to Frers but to modern yacht design, particularly to this on the tradition approach to sailboat development that we can find mostly in Nordic and Italian designs.

The 1980 Swan 51:



The 1990 Swan 55:



The 1996 Swan 56:




The 2009 Swan 60:



The Swan 60 marks also a new approach from Swan that asked to German Frers not only a boat that would be beautiful, able to cruise anywhere in comfort anyhere, competitive while racing but also a boat that could be sailed easily by a couple. For sure if German Frers had designed a new 2014 model we would have seen some minor differences regarding the 60, maximizing the water line regarding the bow and the transom and judging by more recent designs, with the beam further pulled back but as it is the Swan 60 is still a very contemporary boat and as most Swans, a beautiful boat.

German Frers says about the Swan 60 and its program:

"The new Swan 60 combines a voluminous interior, a large protected cockpit and racing performance.

To conciliate these futures, we have made extensive use of state of the art technology in both design and construction methods together with years of successful experiences in this size.

The end result is a low drag hull and appendage package, with a long dynamic waterline at displacement and semi planning speeds. These performance refinements bring also improved seakeeping characteristics.

The Sail plan is powerful but easy to handle. Most of the time the Mainsail and furling jib combination will be enough to achieve a good performance. A storm headsail can be hoisted on a separate stay. For light airs and downwind cruising a furling all purpose sail can be tacked in the bow.

For racing the possibility to mount a bowsprit with large area downwind sails will make for an exhilarating ride downwind. …

The thinking behind the deck was to provide more than one area to loosen up while sailing or at anchor to avoid that feeling of having to stay in one place and provide the opportunity to flow around the yacht at ease.

The yacht can be sailed easily by two persons with the aid of powered winches and a layout that allows the helmsman to get involved in the manoeuvre if needed.

The steering wheel is positioned right behind the cockpit to enhance the steering experience from a position that allows a good view of the sails and waves. ..

A raised platform in the aft part of the cockpit provides another protected area for sun bathing and allows the storage of a tender through the transom door.

An open cockpit version is available for the racing oriented owners together with a number of practical details that have been studied to combine user-friendliness and aesthetics.

The interior was designed having great spaces with plenty of natural light in mind.….

Hull windows, coachroof portholes and large hatches confer natural light and outside views.

Forward of the saloon, the hefty owners cabin grants the privacy and feeling of a larger yacht. There are two options for the layout of this cabin to allow personalisation.…

There are two draft options at 2.9 m and 3.6 m. Both keels use the same structure and provide the same stability so it’s easy to change if needed.

A new version available is a 2.5 m draft with a smaller rig, the ultimate cruiser.

The high stability, forgiving appendages and a direct steering system are all ingredients for a light and responsive yacht."


….

















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  #6297  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Eric:
Thanks I'll check that out. I found a couple of photos myself.

I used to race in beer can races against one of the original, reverse sheer, bubble cabin trunk, Ljungstrom rigs. It was not particularily fast but I don't know if that was the rig or the boat. It was interesting.

My article is for a blog and I don't want to get too obscure. If I say Ljungstrom rig over here, no one will know what I am talking about.
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  #6298  
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Talking Cruising and circumnavigating on a nice hull

These crazy guys have been very popular on internet. They are cruising on a home made 12m boat, type RM (Plywood and epoxy). I said nice hull because in fact it is a very nice hull but the design of the cabin is awful.

In fact I have been trying to find out who is the NA, I mean the one that designed the plans, of that boat ("Mésange Noir" is the name). It seems to me a Lombard design but the owner don't say on any place who is the NA and I looked well. I bet that the NA was so horrified with that cabin that forbid him to say that boat was designed by him

But everything seems to have been made accordingly to the project and very nicely done, except the cabin. Nice project too.

Came on guys, can someone find the hull designer?

Regarding the videos, the two last have sub titles and they are not only funny but show a very light boat going fast and crossing oceans with five adults aboard, 5 crazy guys, I tell you





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  #6299  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

David Réard is the NA as you can see on the data sheet in the first vid from 4:17...
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

"That does not mean that looking at a particular and localized period of time the opposite is not also true, with particular relevance some decades ago, meaning that some sailboat, particularly, cruiser-racer designs (that are always influenced in some extent by the existent rating), were heavily influenced by the distortions created by rating, trying to take the better deal out of it. "

Huh?
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