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  #6321  
Old 02-28-2014
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Hi everybody,
I have once again been catching up on the thread after having spent most of the winter buried in deep snow with my snowboard.

I have been slightly dissapointed by the level of discussion regarding chines and old Dufour models but at the same time knows how discussions on internet forums easily can "take off".

Anyway, late last summer I was among the first to see and test sail the Oceanis 38. There was also a debate after that in regards to it having too low B/D-ratio.

After this the boat has been chosen as Boat of the year in Europe in it's class and got good reviews as a fun and perhaps also good performer in higher winds.

Any comments on this anomaly?

Best regards and may the summer come slowly, still some snowboarding to do.

Anders
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  #6322  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by JAndersB View Post
....

Anyway, late last summer I was among the first to see and test sail the Oceanis 38. There was also a debate after that in regards to it having too low B/D-ratio.

After this the boat has been chosen as Boat of the year in Europe in it's class and got good reviews as a fun and perhaps also good performer in higher winds.

Any comments on this anomaly?

....
Anders
Hi, welcome back!

What anomaly? If I remember correctly you had the idea that the Oceanis 38 could be considered a performance cruiser. the low B/D ratio regards its comparison with performance cruisers and that is not what the Oceanis 38 is, as I had explained at the time. Its B/D ratio is perfectly normal for a main market family cruiser.

Performance cruisers, like the Dehler 38 or the Xp 38 or even the Salona 38, or if you want to look at boats with the same type of hull, the JPK 38, have for an identical draft and same type of keel a clearly superior B/D ratio. It comes with the territory, I mean performance cruisers.

The Oceanis 38 is a very interesting boat with a not very good performance in light winds (for a main market cruiser) but a good performer in all other areas specially downwind with stronger winds. Almost for sure an overall better performance than the Oceanis 37 and that was already a very good main market cruiser.

I posted the opinions of the several testers that elected the boat as European Family cruiser of the year and almost all put all the emphasis not on the sailing performance (that was good) but on the quality of the interior design/space and its versatility that was exceptional and revolutionary. That is what makes that boat exceptional not its sailing characteristics.

The Dehler 38, performance European boat of the year, even if not also elected by its extraordinary sailing performance (but for the balance between quality of the interior and sailing performance) is much faster than the Oceanis 38 and that is not surprisingly, since it is a performance cruiser.

Regards

Paulo
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Last edited by PCP; 02-28-2014 at 04:42 PM.
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  #6323  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
Vimey is correct.
Perhaps this 3D model was prepared just a a sales tool, i.e. it's a pretty picture.
I have done that too.
But the type of 3D modeling I prefer can be used as a file for CNC cutting so it has to be dead acurate. This is a builder's tool and not just a sales tool.
...
I know that you don't make those pretty 3D pictures yourself. You work in 2D and then someone passes the images to 3D . NAs from the new generation like Owen and Clarke just don't use 2D for designing. They do it directly in 3D (and then take from there 2D drawings if needed).

That means that the drawing of that 130ft was made directly in 3D and when the study is finished a program will generate from there the perspectives they want, nice renderings and all. They just have to select the point of view and the angular that they want to use. That's the way those perspectives were generated. Computer don't make mistakes in what regards generating perspectives however boats look better from some angles than others and it is normal that the designer chose the most appealing angle as your designer has made with that boat you have posted.

Regards

Paulo
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Last edited by PCP; 02-28-2014 at 05:06 PM.
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  #6324  
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Smile and some wild sailing

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  #6325  
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  #6326  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Paulo:
I work with a team of specialists. I have an engineer, a fellow who is an expert at deck layouts and electronics and Jody Culbertson III an expert in 3D modelling. Each member of the team is given his asignment. Jody happens to be very good with 3D. If you would bother to take the time you will find I have mentioned his name many times and most of the images I post has his name of his company alongside mine. So really, I have no idea what you are talking about.

The fact is, and I know because I actually work in this industry, that you can produce quick 3D renderings for marketing and advertising that will look great but not be up to the tolerances required to be used for tooling files. Or, you can work with very accurate
3D files that can be used for CNC cutting. That's just one way the industry works. It varies from shop to shop. All different approaches are used.

Now you can go on getting all upset anytime I post but I can assure you I am not going away. Time for you to HTFU.

Take a look at this rendering. At the bottom it has my name and the name of Jody's company "C3 Design". I am always very careful to make sure the group that contributes to my design effort gets credit for their contribution.
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  #6327  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Oceanis 38 a performance cruiser? I do not recall me saying that. And Dehler 38 much faster? Having owned an Oceanis 40, I do not think so. That the Oceanis 38 is not that fast in light wind is not that diffcult to predict looking at the rig but I felt something right in the hull when test sailing her and the magazines seems to agree.

Regarding the 3d renderings and distorsions I must say I tend to agree that the picture seems distorted. I earn my living working with 3d modelling in Solidworks. This is the same program that among other Najad, Nimbus and Nautor uses for instance. There are a lot of parameters you can set when rendering pictures and sometimes with rather silly effects. Might not be anything wrong technically with the picture but for a human eye it does look kind of strange in the front.

Anders
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Oceanis 38 / Dehler 38

Quote:
Originally Posted by JAndersB View Post
Oceanis 38 a performance cruiser? I do not recall me saying that. And Dehler 38 much faster? Having owned an Oceanis 40, I do not think so. That the Oceanis 38 is not that fast in light wind is not that diffcult to predict looking at the rig but I felt something right in the hull when test sailing her and the magazines seems to agree.
.....
Anders
But in fact you are saying that, I mean that the Oceanis 38 has almost the speed of a performance cruiser when you are saying that it will not be much slower than the Dehler 38, that one a performance cruiser.

Fact is that on the comparative test (Voile magazine) with all the boats of the water at the same time and weak to medium light wind the "cheap" Varianta 37 (an older Hanse hull) showed to be much faster than the Oceanis 38 and of course, the Dehler 38 much faster than the Varianta 37, even if the comparison is not fair since the Varaianta 37, like the Oceanis 37 is a family cruiser (main market) while the Dehler 38 is a performance cruiser.

I doubt it but maybe someone has the idea of racing the Oceanis 38 and then we can have the rating files where the differences will be clear. If nobody would take an Oceanis 38 for racing....that would be significant too, meaning it is not that fast

Regards

Paulo
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Barcelona World race: The Spanish Guillermo Altadill and the Chilien José Muñoz

Dias de Playa will be glad Those two will race in Neutragena, a 2007 Farr plan previously known as Veolia Environnement (1st on the 2010 Route du Rhum with Roland Jourdain) and Hugo Boss (3rd on the last Vendee Globe with Alex Thomson), a good boat even if not one from the last generation. There will not be a skipper. Both will race with equal status.

"Guillermo Altadill requires no introductions in the world of ocean sailing. He's Spain's most experienced ocean sailor, having clocked up the highest mileage (some 400,000 miles) and having completed the highest number of circumnavigations (six). He is also the fastest ever Spanish sailor; he has two round the world records and he is one of the world's most esteemed ocean speed sailing experts.

However, his experience is by no means limited to the world of ocean sailing; he took part in the America's Cup in 2007 and also coached the Tornado Class squad to Olympic gold at the Atlanta Olympic Games in 1996.

José Muñoz boasts a track record brimming with top-level competitive sailing and he is Chile's most experienced ocean sailor. José took second place at Portimao 2008/09 alongside Felipe Cubillos. The pair gave a brilliant performance aboard Desafío Cabo de Hornos (Cape Horn Challenge) taking second place overall and two leg victories. A particularly special leg win was between New Zealand and Brazil where the pair rounded the legendary Cape Horn in the lead.

José Muñoz has also crossed the Atlantic three times and is a specialist in IMS, MUMM 36, J24 and Soto 40 racing, as well as expertly adapting to any position on the boat. José is the first ever Chilean sailor to take part in an IMOCA regatta."


Well, not a Spanish team but a Spanish speaking team

Barcelona World Race

The boat (will have a new paint job, of course):



and what about Alex? That means a new boat to him?
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  #6330  
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Re: Barcelona World race: The Spanish Guillermo Altadill and the Chilien José Muñoz

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Dias de Playa will be glad Those two will race in Neutragena, a 2007 Farr plan previously known as Veolia Environnement (1st on the 2010 Route du Rhum with Roland Jourdain) and Hugo Boss (3rd on the last Vendee Globe with Alex Thomson), a good boat even if not one from the last generation. There will not be a skipper. Both will race with equal status.

"Guillermo Altadill requires no introductions in the world of ocean sailing. He's Spain's most experienced ocean sailor, having clocked up the highest mileage (some 400,000 miles) and having completed the highest number of circumnavigations (six). He is also the fastest ever Spanish sailor; he has two round the world records and he is one of the world's most esteemed ocean speed sailing experts.

However, his experience is by no means limited to the world of ocean sailing; he took part in the America's Cup in 2007 and also coached the Tornado Class squad to Olympic gold at the Atlanta Olympic Games in 1996.

José Muñoz boasts a track record brimming with top-level competitive sailing and he is Chile's most experienced ocean sailor. José took second place at Portimao 2008/09 alongside Felipe Cubillos. The pair gave a brilliant performance aboard Desafío Cabo de Hornos (Cape Horn Challenge) taking second place overall and two leg victories. A particularly special leg win was between New Zealand and Brazil where the pair rounded the legendary Cape Horn in the lead.

José Muñoz has also crossed the Atlantic three times and is a specialist in IMS, MUMM 36, J24 and Soto 40 racing, as well as expertly adapting to any position on the boat. José is the first ever Chilean sailor to take part in an IMOCA regatta."


Well, not a Spanish team but a Spanish speaking team
Some Chilean sailors did a big effort to put Jose Muñoz onboard with Guillermo Atadil. Guillermo visited Chile many times to organize this business. Jose "Negro" Muñoz is an excellent crewman and I'm sure that will be a very good partner for Guillermo.
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