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  #6361  
Old 03-02-2014
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Re: Viko 30s

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
You seem not to have understood but ... blah blah blah....
.......that they had already said it is a completely different line, being the Viko 30s the first of a new series.

Regards

Paulo
No, Paulo, I understood just fine, and my post was not reinforcing your comments, quite the contrary. Maybe YOU do not understand !? I was referring to, as the subject line clearly states, the Viko S22, designed by Sergio Lupoli (same designer as the S30 ), the FIRST of a new line.
For accuracy's sake, the article you quoted never mentions that the S30 is a completely different boat than the S22, as you claim. It mentions, however, that the S30 is different from the previous high freeboard, voluminous line of boats (which will remain in production ), and presents a second line of production designed by Sergio Lupoli, just as the S22, the first of the line, I humbly posted about.
The same designer, the same builder, the same building, the same line of production...
Also mentioned about the S30: The price does not include an engine, and Yacht advises checking the options sheet, as the boat is very bare compared to others in its class.
I guess we will find out the details, when they actually sail the S30. Maybe she will pass the heeling test without taking on water, stay tuned...
I will however grant, that she is a decent looking boat.
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  #6362  
Old 03-02-2014
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Boy Paulo:
You spend a lot of energy on this. You need to chill. I have been posting here for weeks. It goes back to the "chines" thread. Weeks.

Who is this "blind man" you speak of? Are you calling names?

"The fact that you insist into giving more “likes” than everybody else is annoying, deliberate and makes no sense. Please stop with that and see if you can moderate your contribution to a more positive level, actually posting about interesting contemporary boats or features instead of keeping with that attitude whose purpose is clear."

No Paulo. Not a chance. I will continue to post as I like and I really don't care what you think of my posts. You react. You react the way you choose to react. Don't dream of telling me what I can do. I simply hit the "like" button when I like what has been posted. Simple as that. It is not meant to be annoying. But you are so easily annoyed.

"You seem to think that this thread is about you "
That is a very weird statement coming from you.

I thought this thread was about boats?
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  #6363  
Old 03-02-2014
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Owen and Clarke and the Wally cento class.

Owen and Clarke helped to create the class but his design did not find a client yet. I liked it a lot as I have appreciated the studies (that I will share here) that lead to the choice of that hull shape that is basically the same used by the other wally cento but beamier. The wally cento are wally cruisers more oriented for performance and have racing as an important part of their design program.

With time we would have a look at the difference between these boats in what regards hull design, but they are not big. This seems to be the best hull shape for this size and boat characteristics (with some differences in beam) that have as basis a top performance cruiser, not a full racer.

The Owen and Clarke wally cento:







Fascinating this study. I hope someone will have the boat built to see if the VPP predictions are close to reality and if this beamier boat (than the other wally cento) is really faster in more conditions than the existent wally cento fleet.

The study:

Having worked on the design of the new Cento since the rule's inception it is clear that because of her overall length and high sail area displacement ratio the Cento is a very different yacht to previous Wallys. She is very fast and this effectively draws the apparant wind to forward of the beam in almost all conditions. Although Wally are classifying her as racer-cruiser her performance potential because of her combination of waterline length and displacement are clear. ....

It’s all very well having a light boat with a large sail area to provide performance, but the yacht has to have the stability to match or one will be be sailing with mainsail twisted/reefed and be unable to take advantage of the power available.

At the other end of the scale, a maximum beam hull will be inefficient unless its form stability is being used a large percentage of the time. Just how will the Wally Cento’s sail since they don’t have water ballast and when will they reach maximum heel and at what wind speed? One of our Wally Cento designs has been computer modelled with the maximum sail permitted sail area and the results are shown below. In terms of performance the Wally Cento is sailing in displacement mode in the greyed out area and exceeding her hull speed elsewhere..




The table below illustrates just how often the apparent wind is forward of the beam, the inevitable conclusion here is that the Wally Cento is ‘hungry’ for stability even off the wind when designed with the maximum sail area and at the minimum displacement.

What this also means is that because the wind is drawn forward to such an extent this stability is in use more often than heavier displacement or shorter waterline yachts – the kind of yachts the IRC rule was designed for. This is one of the reasons we believe why IRC treats lighter, more powerful designs more leniently after 60’.The stability that is penalized is effective for a higher % percentage of the time, as is the light displacement because the yachts are also effectively sailing outside their displacement mode for a greater % of the time.




The performance over several different inshore courses have been evaluated in a range of conditions for two boats, one of maximum beam and one of minimum beam. For this exercise both yachts had the same sail area and displacement. The relative speed of the two designs is illustrated in the table below where speed differences in seconds per mile are shown at a range of wind angles and wind speeds. The numbers in red indicate where the wider boat is slower and the black where the wider boat is faster.



It seems clear from the numbers that we have seen that the Owen Clarke Wally Cento will be an exciting, exhilarating boat to sail with performance potential well in excess of the current Wally fleet. Fully powered up in eight knots of wind even without a Code 0, the boat will have no fear of light airs and with twin rudder control fast reaching and running in higher speeds will be controllable to an extent unheard of on its single-rudder predecessors.

Just as twin rudder designs were a revelation to most sailors in the first Volvo 70 VOR when the single rudder Farr designs were relegated to ‘also rans,’ the advantages of this type of yacht can be experienced when sailing as part of the Wally fleet or in other races against other IRC designs.

When combined with the latest sail handling techniques, equipment and design, the sail area of the new rigs will be easier than ever to harness and control. Developments in the grand prix and short-handed racing world in terms of top down furling spinnakers and especially furling code sails/gennakers will power the yacht at the high apparent wind angles it will be sailing at most of the time.

Wally have elected to place the Cento firrmly in the racing division with a speed potential far higher than their designs of the past. A fresh approach is called for to take advantage of the situation. Indeed the Cento falls squarely at the high performance end of yacht design, an area that Owen Clarke Design excel in. In partnership with Design Unlimited and KandK Superyachts we have a team that has the capabilities to produce a very special as well as a winning yacht.


Wally Cento - IRC High Performance Superyacht : Owen Clarke Design - Yacht Design and Naval Architects
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  #6364  
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Viko 30s, the first of a new series, a change in paradigm.

This is boring. This is all about interpretation and about English and logic. I hope this settles the matter because what have been said on that article from Yacht is very clear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjung View Post
No, Paulo, I understood just fine, and my post was not reinforcing your comments, quite the contrary. Maybe YOU do not understand !? I was referring to, as the subject line clearly states, the Viko S22, designed by Sergio Lupoli (same designer as the S30 ), the FIRST of a new line.....
Maybe you don't know but it is not the designer that chose the type of boat that he is going to make for a shipyard. It is the shipyard that tells the designer what kind of boat they want. The fact that the designer of the 22 is the same of the 30 does not mean they are the same type of boat. The freeboard of the 22 is just huge as it is commented on the Yacht de article about the Viko 30s.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjung View Post
For accuracy's sake, the article you quoted never mentions that the S30 is a completely different boat than the S22, as you claim. It mentions, however, that the S30 is different from the previous high freeboard, voluminous line of boats (which will remain in production ).... the Viko S22...the FIRST of a new line.
Are you kidding? or maybe you don't know that the Viko 30s is a more recent model than the 22:

"At the stand of the Polish shipyard, a surprise awaits visitors: beautiful lines instead of the current maximum space efficiency. You have to look twice to realize that it really is a new Viko, because the sailboats of the Polish shipyard have been noticed by compromise sailing regarding interior space.They normally have a big freeboard: ....

"The Viko 30S is significantly less voluminous than the previous models, it is designed with harmonious deck lines and it looks absolutely chic.

.. So what's going on? Germany importer André explains the design change of paradigm: "The shipyard plans to establish a second line, so the change on style...The shipyard has invested heavily in the future and a 35s, 40s and even 50s will follow." The previous old type of small voluminous boats will continue to be produced in parallel as a second line."


It cannot be more clear: The previous boats have all a big freeboard, including the 22, you just need to look at it below:



this one is different, in the words of Yacht.de, a surprise, dificult to identify with the previous boats (including the 22) significantly less voluminous with beautiful lines, looking chick.

On the words of the German importer quoted by Yacht it is said: "The shipyard plans to establish a second line, so the change on style" that is pretty clear. That is a plan not something that had happened already with the 22 (that is one of the voluminous high freeboard boats) and continued with the 30s but something that happened now, not in the past and then he tells about the new boats from that new series: the 30s, a 35, a 40 and even a 50, that's why they talk of a change of paradigm with the 30, not something that had happened in the past.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjung View Post
and presents a second line of production designed by Sergio Lupoli, just as the S22, the first of the line, I humbly posted about.
The same designer, the same builder, the same building, the same line of production...
....
What you say, regarding the 22 to be the first of a line that includes the 30 and the bigger boats has no support in what had been said. Quite the contrary the 30s is presented as a surprise, a change of paradigm, a boat much less voluminous then all previous boats and the beginning of a new series.

Viko Yachts: Hanseboot-Premiere VIII: Viko 30S - Yachten + Jollen*|*YACHT.DE

Regards

Paulo
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Last edited by PCP; 03-02-2014 at 06:54 PM.
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  #6365  
Old 03-02-2014
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

"This is boring. This is all about interpretation and about English and logic."
In some parts of the world that is called "communication".
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  #6366  
Old 03-02-2014
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

People people people.. topic is " interesting sailboats" . I appreciate the designs of Mr. Perry and the likes of anyone who not only puts something that worx on paper but also car see it do what was imagined, run with grace. Kinda like Walter Schulz.
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  #6367  
Old 03-02-2014
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Chosey:
Thanks for that. But which Walter Schulz?
I fear I will shortly be banned. Someone has been complaining. I have been given a stern warning. I will ignore it. But for those few of you who have put up with me I appreciate your support.
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  #6368  
Old 03-02-2014
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The first real boat test with the Dufour 310

And surprisingly the ones I saw first are Italian ones but not surprisingly the one from Giornalle de la Vela is much better than the previous one.

The boat was sailed with a bit more wind, 10 to 13K on some occasions but mostly with weaker winds. With 10/13K the boat works perfectly on the configuration of main and small self taking jib offering a very good sail performance.

On this configuration, predictably, with very weak winds, the boat will need a code 0 to sail at a good speed (as has confirmed by the other test). On this one the boat confirms the very good impression I had regarding this hull that is just sweet.





The test results are very good. I will only translate what they say regarding sail performance. For the rest you can buy the magazine

Avventura, grandi velisti, test e grandi eventi: č VELA di marzo! | Sail magazine - sailing news - regattas - Cruise

"The wind left to be desired but at noon a breeze appeared, between 10 and 13 knots in the channel between Portovenere and Palmaria . We begin to tack upwind to measure the speed : 6.5 average and when the gusts puffed the boat accelerated rapidly touching 7 knots remaining easy on the rudder , without risking broaching and maintaining the course without the need for corrections on the ruder that does its duty even though it is not particularly deep.

The boat heels slightly over its chine and even in what regards changing direction the boat has a good performance , the hull comes out of the tack and accelerates quickly to a good pace .

On a beam reach we got 7 knots. We did not have aboard the asymmetrical : nevertheless even without one downwind the boat maintains a good pace : 6.5 knots. "

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Last edited by PCP; 03-02-2014 at 09:56 PM.
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Chosey:
Got it.
I was walking the dogs in the rain and thinking and it came to me,,,,,,, PEANUTS!
I'll take that as a nice compliment.

Being brought up in Australia I was taught to find some humor in everything.
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Paolo, are you intentionally being a confrontational ass or is your message simply lost in translation?
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