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  #631  
Old 01-31-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faster View Post
Beauty..... but that wallpaper????
I have thought many times why wallpaper would not be used more in boats like the Pogo. That one does not look well in the photos but it gives the boat a modern look inside. I would have preferred a more traditional approach but my wife loved it and I have to say that it fits well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hartley18 View Post
..and TWO TV sets??
Again, in my boat I will trade any TV by a good sound system, but they are not TV sets. They are multi-functional Hi-Def panels. They can work as a TV, but also has a computer screen or as permanent displays for your best photos or favorite paintings, or art movie shows. very trendy in modern decoration (they are fully encased on the panel). Again not my cup of tea. The boat is obviously owned by some rich guy with fancy tastes. Those items are not even on the option list.

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Originally Posted by RXBOT View Post
Those companionway steps are not designed for heeling, guess she is just a dock queen.
She is quite the opposite of a dock queen. The steps are alright, large, with the outer parts inclined for heeling, with anti-skidding material and they are surrounded by effective hand-grabs.

Carbon and other light strong (and expensive) materials are used everywhere and the boat weights only 6.8T and has a ballast of 2.7T, almost all on a bulb 2.5m down at the end of a telescopic keel (the draft can be reduced to 2.00).

This would give an incredible stiff (B/D 40%) powerful boat capable of carrying full sail with a lot of wind and off course a very, very fast boat that would knife upwind with a minimum of fuss (beam 3.72m).

A dock queen? I don't think so

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 01-31-2011 at 04:05 PM.
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  #632  
Old 01-31-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
You are talking about the (Jeanneau) 39? The only 39 they have here is the 39 DS, or about the 439? the big brother of the 409.
Sorry, Paulo, I've got the model wrong.. this was the new non-DS model with the Juan K-ish hull chine aft.
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  #633  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
I had to explain her that the boat that we both liked (by different reasons) was way out of our budget. Sad
Can't you give a number Paulo?
Ulf
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  #634  
Old 01-31-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by myocean View Post
Can't you give a number Paulo?
Ulf
Standard boat 270 000€

Telescopic keel 35 000€
Epoxy hull and deck 25 000€
Carbon mast and retractable Bowsprit 28 100€
You can count with more 40 000€ of extras (for cruising) and about 20 000€ for a decent set of sails.

With taxes that we have to pay (about 20% VAT) that boat would cost me over 500 000€. That's the price of excellency

Regards

Paulo
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  #635  
Old 01-31-2011
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Salona 41 boat test

Quote:
Originally Posted by blt2ski View Post
....

Glad to know that boat was a hit with the missus, too bad it is too expensive. ...
marty
Marty,

After visiting that boat we had taken another look at the Salona 41 and the Salona looks great even after the Finn Flyer. The boats have the same length, same hull shape. The Salona weights more 400kg has less 300kg of ballast, more 12cm of Beam and more 7m2 of sail. Both boats use hi-tech vacuum infusion and can be made with epoxy resins. The Salona uses a Stainless steel interior frame to rigidify the boat and to absorb all the efforts of the keel and from the shrouds.

I like the superior B/D of the Finn Flyer so I will add 300kg to Salona ballast (the shipyard will do it for a reasonably price). I would have a 700kg more heavy boat (with more 7m2 of sail) but also a very stiff boat that can carry full sail with a lot of wind and also a boat with a high AVS and a small inverted stability. Sure, now the Finn Flyer would be probably slightly faster, but I am no racer and the Salona will be a more forgiven boat (and with more wind and heavy sea it will be a more powerful boat and even faster than the standard version).

Even with the extra weight the Salona would be a very, very fast boat. Remember that the First 40 will still weight more 500kg and will have less 14m2 of sail.

The Salona has a good cruising interior, the materials are good even if they are far from the absolute perfection of the FinnFlyer. Most important (for me) is that my wife likes the interior, the storage space and the galley. She loves the two freezers one of them with a deep freezer storage space. The head has also a curtain (fixed on the roof) that permits to isolate the shower area and she is satisfied with that. The boat does not have a port hull (and she wants one) but they say that they can make one.

And the better part is that the Salona costs about half the price of the FinnFlyer I don't know if I can stretch my budget to cover that, but it is a lot of boat for the money and one that I am sure would fit all my needs: That boat is a pleasure machine and it will sail fast, nicely and safely on the med or on deep ocean. It will be comfortable at the marina or at anchor and will provide the pleasure of owning a very beautiful boat with an almost classical shape, one that will resist the test of time.













Yachting Life

http://www.salonayachts.nl/files/Nie...20features.pdf

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 10-23-2013 at 11:36 AM.
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  #636  
Old 01-31-2011
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Faster,

The Jeanneau you saw was the SO409. I did not get a chance to get there and take a look, but may run by there in the next few days and take a peak at the dealer. The dealer is on the wet shore of Lake union about 1/2 to 3/4 of a mile north of where the on water part of the show is.

paulo,

The salona is nice. Still no dealer in this part of the world, ie NA! I can find a Delphia, Elan and some of the other major builders from Europe, but a lot, no go!

Marty
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  #637  
Old 02-01-2011
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Bavaria 40s

Another boat that I have visited in Dusseldorf was the new Bavaria 40s.

The boat was developed with the guys from Match race Germany and is going to be Match raced in Germany (they have already made commands for a fleet).





The good news is that the boat is much lighter (800kg) and the running rigging is a delight. All the steering system was modified and upgraded to have a really good feeling at the wheel. The traveler was moved backwards, to the cockpit. You can have a very enjoyable sailing boat with everything as it should to be, I mean rigging, right size of winches, top deck material at a very affordable price.

The bad news is that they have only one keel version with 2.35m and that's a lot for cruising. They have also opted for a non bulbed lead keel, for rating, and that seems ridiculous to me. The boat is not really adapted for cruising. I hope this is only the prototype for match racing and that a performance cruising version will appear quickly (with an anchor locker, for instance).

The boat seems very strong. It is stronger than the standard version with thicker cored halls and massif bottom, protected with kevlar on the more exposed regions. The keel is fixed to a massif structural grid, bigger than it used to be.

I had a talk with a friend I have on the Bavaria staff about the weight of their boats. Contrary to the French, that are making always lighter and lighter boats, Bavaria boats are today heavier than 6 years ago. I question him about that. He says that after some problems with the keels of the Match Bavaria 42 (a very light cruiser racer), they have stepped back and are making heavier and stronger boats. They seem strong to me

Last edited by PCP; 10-23-2013 at 11:37 AM.
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  #638  
Old 02-01-2011
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Quote:
I had a talk with a friend I have on the Bavaria staff about the weight of their boats. Contrary to the French, that are making always lighter and lighter boats, Bavaria boats are today heavier than 6 years ago. I question him about that. He says that after some problems with the keels of the Match Bavaria 42 (a very light cruiser racer), they have stepped back and are making heavier and stronger boats. They seem strong to me
Well, it is a good thing they're making their boats heavier, since they had killed a few people with their earlier boats. The 42 and the 38 had keel attachment issues, where the hull laminate wasn't strong enough to support the keel properly and keels fell off, resulting in some people dying.
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  #639  
Old 02-01-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingdog View Post
Well, it is a good thing they're making their boats heavier, since they had killed a few people with their earlier boats. The 42 and the 38 had keel attachment issues, where the hull laminate wasn't strong enough to support the keel properly and keels fell off, resulting in some people dying.

Some clarification and some questions.

About 9 years ago Bavaria add a new line of cruising racers to their line of cruising boats. That line, that lasted few years, was called Match. They were very light and fast boats.

I have no knowledge of any keel problem (ever) with the cruising line of Bavarias, and we are talking of many thousands of boats, many subjected to charter abuse that include some hard groundings.

I have no knowledge that resulted in "some people dying". I have knowledge of a single incident in Croatia where a Match 42 lost a keel that resulted in one sailor killed.

Several boats, 42 and 38 Match, after inspection showed signs of future problems on the area of the keel attachment and Bavaria gave instructions to dealers for reinforcements on the area and bigger backing plates. After those modifications I have no knowledge of further problems. Bavaria stopped production of the Match series a short time after that incident.

Perhaps you can enlighten me about those people that died and the boats that were involved. As I have said I know only about one boat incident and one dead.

When I was talking that Bavaria was making heavier and in their judgement, stronger boats, I was not talking about the Match series, but about the Cruising series, boats that never had problems with the keels, or to my knowledge, any structural problem. To give you an idea, the 2003 Bavaria 36 that I had owned weighted about 5.7T. The new Bavaria 36 weights about 7T. That's a huge difference, the materials are the same. They say that they are opting for stronger boats and I cannot see any other justification for that difference in weight.

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 02-01-2011 at 05:31 PM.
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  #640  
Old 02-03-2011
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Salona 41 movie

About the Salona 41, I found this nice video:


Put it on HD (720) and look at the details.

You are going to understand why I like so much this boat : For this (that you can see on the video) and for its huge sailing potential.

Normally the boats that offer this sailing potential and a really good interior cost a lot more

Last edited by PCP; 10-23-2013 at 11:38 AM.
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