Interesting Sailboats - Page 65 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Boat Review and Purchase Forum
 Not a Member? 


Like Tree1266Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #641  
Old 02-03-2011
PCP's Avatar
PCP PCP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal, West Coast
Posts: 16,166
Thanks: 21
Thanked 96 Times in 80 Posts
Rep Power: 10
PCP will become famous soon enough
Elan 210 movie

Quote:
Originally Posted by blt2ski View Post
That E210 is a kewl looking boat for a trailer sailor! Looks like the motor goes thru the hull and belo ala a saildrive style, but pulls up with a flush bottom somehow? way kewl if it does that.
....
Marty


Hey Marty, now I can answer to that.



I had a good look at the boat (Dusseldorf boat show) and I can tell you that the boat looks as amazing live as in the photos.

Yes it is a trailer boat. The rudders pop out and the keel goes up but the most outstanding is that engine set up. I saw how it works. The engine is fixed to the boat by a movable bar and just swings and goes in and out of that well in a smooth movement.

With that engine in you have all the advantages of an inboard engine. All controls on the outside, including reverse, like any inboard engine, you pull it up and all the drag is gone and it stays down, on a central position, adding its weight to the ballast. Nice and very pratical

I had also a look at the interior that is cozy and with lot's of storage and interesting solutions, for the size of the boat. A very interesting boat, no doubt.

The boat raised a lot of interest in Dusseldorf.

Here you have a good video. It is not in English, but the images say it all:



The price starts at 21 000€

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 10-23-2013 at 11:39 AM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #642  
Old 02-03-2011
blt2ski's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 6,695
Thanks: 0
Thanked 21 Times in 20 Posts
Rep Power: 10
blt2ski will become famous soon enough
Paulo,

I have not looked at the video yet....... but when the motor is pulled up, does a cover fill the hole where the outboard went down, so a "flat" bottom per say, or is the hole still there creating drag. A popular boat around here, granted since the late 50's a T-bird, has an outboard in a well, you can pull the outboard out of the water, but the well still drags. The pics of the E210 show potentially what I would say looks like an airplane landing gear, doors open, gear/motor goes down, gear/motor goes in compartment, doors close, smooth surface for best air/water flow! Really kewl if that is how it works!

Is Salona working on a new 35-37' design, as I am recalling, the 37 is 4-6 yrs old, it is still a good looking rig, and from the online pricing, attempting to convert Euros to US$, reasonable affordable. Not as well as a Jeanneau or bene mind you........but a good bang for the monetary unit if you will.

marty
__________________
She drives me boat,
I drives me dinghy!
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #643  
Old 02-04-2011
PCP's Avatar
PCP PCP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal, West Coast
Posts: 16,166
Thanks: 21
Thanked 96 Times in 80 Posts
Rep Power: 10
PCP will become famous soon enough
Elan 210 Polar speed and stability curve

Quote:
Originally Posted by blt2ski View Post
Paulo,

I have not looked at the video yet....... but when the motor is pulled up, does a cover fill the hole where the outboard went down, so a "flat" bottom per say, or is the hole still there creating drag. A popular boat around here, granted since the late 50's a T-bird, has an outboard in a well, you can pull the outboard out of the water, but the well still drags. The pics of the E210 show potentially what I would say looks like an airplane landing gear, doors open, gear/motor goes down, gear/motor goes in compartment, doors close, smooth surface for best air/water flow! Really kewl if that is how it works!

Is Salona working on a new 35-37' design, as I am recalling, the 37 is 4-6 yrs old, it is still a good looking rig, and from the online pricing, attempting to convert Euros to US$, reasonable affordable. Not as well as a Jeanneau or bene mind you........but a good bang for the monetary unit if you will.

marty
Marty,

Regarding the Elan 210, if you look at the video you are going to see that it is not an open well. It has a cover that is taken to put the engine in and that is in place when the engine is out. No drag at all. You have just to look at this polar to understand that there is no drag. This little thing just flies. I bet it will be a lot of fun to sail



And it has also an amazingly good stability curve for such a small boat with a high AVS and small inverted stability.



Salona has a nice new and fast Salona 34. We have talked already about it:

Salona 34 - Salona Yachts



Regarding the 38 it seems that the new one is going to be delayed. The 37 is selling well so they are going to modify only the interior and the cockpit offering it with a two wheel setup. Regarding the 37, they have sold several boats to the world's most famous sailing school, Le Glenans. This is quite amazing because obviously those guys know what is a good sailboat and only choose the best and I say amasing because Le Glenans is a French school and the French are very picky in what regards buying things that are not French...and they have some of the best sailing boats in the world

Les Glenans : a sailing school


"A wide range of boats designed for the purpose of training Boats at the Glénans are chosen and designed to make progress of trainees faster and easier : small sailing boats, stable and easy to handle and manoeuvre are used for cruise initiation, to become autonomous more quickly and discover the subtilities of helming. Larger boats of 37 to 45 ft., comfortable and fast, are devoted to ocean navigation.
Each year, new types of boats are added to the fleet, featuring up-to-date technical features."






Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 10-23-2013 at 11:40 AM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #644  
Old 02-04-2011
Faster's Avatar
Just another Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: New Westminster, BC
Posts: 14,699
Thanks: 68
Thanked 197 Times in 189 Posts
Rep Power: 10
Faster has a spectacular aura about Faster has a spectacular aura about Faster has a spectacular aura about
Quote:
Originally Posted by blt2ski View Post
Paulo,

......A popular boat around here, granted since the late 50's a T-bird, has an outboard in a well, you can pull the outboard out of the water, but the well still drags. .
marty
Marty most Tbirds I've sailed on do put a filler plate in the outboard well. However if it's not well restrained they can be lost, as a expect a few were.

While cleverly done, I suspect the Elan 210's system will be quite difficult to use in any kind of seaway, and will not be a dry job. Once closed, though, the hull should be quite fair.

The Flying Tiger 10 has a neat setup under the bridge deck.. they incorporate 'bomb bay' doors that close the hull/well port as the O/B is lifted straight up. The bridge deck provides the clearance for the motor to be vertical at all times, and the prop is, like the Elan, under the hull getting rid of the problem with most transom mounted O/Bs.
__________________
Ron

1984 Fast/Nicholson 345 "FastForward"

".. there is much you could do at sea with common sense.. and very little you could do without it.."
Capt G E Ericson (from "The Cruel Sea" by Nicholas Monsarrat)
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #645  
Old 02-05-2011
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 290
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 5
myocean is on a distinguished road
Paulo, what do you know about the new 40 ft from Elan? Will it be as sportive as the 210 and 350? Is it planned for this year?
Ulf
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #646  
Old 02-05-2011
PCP's Avatar
PCP PCP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal, West Coast
Posts: 16,166
Thanks: 21
Thanked 96 Times in 80 Posts
Rep Power: 10
PCP will become famous soon enough
Elan 410 movie Polar speed stability curve

Quote:
Originally Posted by myocean View Post
Paulo, what do you know about the new 40 ft from Elan? Will it be as sportive as the 210 and 350? Is it planned for this year?
Ulf
At Dusseldoff I asked the guys from Elan:

They don't have drawings yet, it is for this year but only for the end of the year. they are probably pointing to the biggest boat saloons that are near the end of the year or at the beginning of the next year. the boat is going to have two rudders and two wheels and the hull shape will probably be between the one from the 450 and the one from the 350. It is going to be a fast boat upwind and a very fast boat downwind.

I don't know about you but I like a lot the 410 and they are going to offer them at very special prices. The boat is very fast on all points of sail has a very good interior is seaworthy and depending on the price can be a very good deal. I will expect that they lower the price about 40 000 euros (with discounts) and that would be fine for me.

The Elan 410 is a recent boat (2007?) with a modern hull and a modern interior. They are going to change the model because they want to capitalize on the huge success of the 350 and not because the boat is outdated but because sailors want two wheels and two rudders.
















Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 10-23-2013 at 11:42 AM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #647  
Old 02-05-2011
PCP's Avatar
PCP PCP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal, West Coast
Posts: 16,166
Thanks: 21
Thanked 96 Times in 80 Posts
Rep Power: 10
PCP will become famous soon enough
Dehler 44 / Dehler 45

At Dusseldorf I have not been inside many boats, but one of the stands I visited was the one from the Dehler. I wanted to know if they had more information on the new 41. They have not, but I take the occasion to have a look at the "new" 45.

The new 45 is not really a new boat, is just the "old" 44 (2006) with a bourgeois remake.

First the good things:

The workmanship and finish of the boat is just as good (or better) than it used to be. Just impeccable. It seems that Hanse didn't change anything in what regards quality.

The 44 was a great boat and it is hard to bring down a great boat, so this is a very good sailing boat.

The bad things:

They just spoiled one of the most beautiful boats on the market. Yes they have made it less modern, cheaper and with a more consensual look (read conservator). The main innovation was the addition of an ugly locker/back sit that closes the transom. The thing is removable (I hope). Out the carbon mast, a less sharp rig and the mentioned interior remake, not so much on the basics but on the details.

As a 45ft the boat has a problem, that was not so evident when he was presented as a cruiser-racer, more now that is presented as a cruiser: The cockpit lockers of this boat are not deep and on the three cabin version the storage space is just not enough for extended cruising. For that you will need a two cabin version, and that for a 45ft boat it is not bright.

Now take a look at both boats and try to understand why I am pissed with the 45 (the 44 is not on the Dehler catalog anymore).

First the Dehler 44












dehler.us

dehler.us


And now the Dehler 45












Dehler Yachts

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 10-23-2013 at 11:42 AM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #648  
Old 02-08-2011
PCP's Avatar
PCP PCP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal, West Coast
Posts: 16,166
Thanks: 21
Thanked 96 Times in 80 Posts
Rep Power: 10
PCP will become famous soon enough
Rm 1060

First boat tests on the RM 1060:













The two main French boat magazines tested the boat in their last edition.

They have said nice things?....Yes, but away from the enthusiasm of the Elan 350 boat tests. I know this is a different type of boat but the boat is lighter than the Elan, has the same type of hull and has more sail area. It should be a knock out, an incredible boat to sail.

Well I believe Voiles et Voiliers says it all when they say about the boat: "Un baroudeur bien élevé" meaning a well behaved adventurer.

Nothing on the boat tests talk about exciting sailing. It seems that the boat is fast but not as fast as the numbers (weight, sail area) would indicate.

One of the tests was a 100nm test and that normally is enough to have a clear idea of the boat, at least on the test sea and wind conditions: Downwind, with 20K wind, sometimes blowing 25, the boat with a big geenaker sailed under 10k, going sometimes over that speed surfing. the tiller was a bit heavy.

On the other magazine test they say that on 5 to 15K of wind, with small short waves, close to the wind the boat had difficulty in gaining speed after being slowed by the small short waves. They say the boat needs more sail area???

Normally French magazines are very enthusiastic about French boats, especially if they are very good. On the boat tests they have talked a lot about the boat's interior, about the rigging and little about sailing....Hummm, on boat magazines test's you have to read between the lines. It seems to me they were as disappointed with the sail performance as I was with the boat after reading their reports.

Now, to understand what I mean, the same magazine that said that the RM 1060 was a well behaved adventurer said, in the same edition, about the Pogo 12.50: "La voile en chantant". That's difficult to translate, but it will be something like: Sailing while singing of joy

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 10-23-2013 at 11:43 AM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #649  
Old 02-08-2011
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 260
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 6
bb74 is on a distinguished road
That's disappointing to hear. I thought the 1060 would be a nice sailing boat. It's the type of boat that finds a nice middle ground between comfort and performance on layout and design. (aside from the € of course....) The 10.50 was a near perfect extended cruising design on accomodations and sea worthyness.

I'll need to try and rent the RM10.50 in Port Camargue if it is still for rent down there. Otherwise most of the RM's are on the Atlantic coast and that's not ideal for me travel wise.

Do you remember if the test boat was a single or bi-keel design? I'll check out the voile & voiliers test...

I still have this irrational urge for the Pogo 10.50... I guess it's the approach to the "roaring 40's" that does it...?? if you see what I mean.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #650  
Old 02-08-2011
PCP's Avatar
PCP PCP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal, West Coast
Posts: 16,166
Thanks: 21
Thanked 96 Times in 80 Posts
Rep Power: 10
PCP will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by bb74 View Post
That's disappointing to hear. I thought the 1060 would be a nice sailing boat. It's the type of boat that finds a nice middle ground between comfort and performance on layout and design. (aside from the € of course....) The 10.50 was a near perfect extended cruising design on accomodations and sea worthyness.

I'll need to try and rent the RM10.50 in Port Camargue if it is still for rent down there. Otherwise most of the RM's are on the Atlantic coast and that's not ideal for me travel wise.

Do you remember if the test boat was a single or bi-keel design? I'll check out the voile & voiliers test...

I still have this irrational urge for the Pogo 10.50... I guess it's the approach to the "roaring 40's" that does it...?? if you see what I mean.
I am quite sure that the RM 1060 is a faster boat than the RM 10.50 and also that is a great boat. What I am saying is that with that sail area and that weight it was to be expected that the performance was just incredible, comparable or faster than the Elan 350. It sames it is not the case, at least for what I have understood from these tests.

If you are going to try that one try also the Elan 350 (you can just book a boat test at the same time). I have been again inside one at the Dusseldorf boat show and the boat has really an amazing interior for its size. It is a good cruising interior compared with any cruiser with 35ft. To have such an interior in a true performance boat is outstanding.

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 02-08-2011 at 06:41 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 8 (0 members and 8 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Cruising sailboats for sale welch Cruising & Liveaboard Forum 10 04-25-2012 05:20 PM
THE Yacht Builder List T37Chef Boat Review and Purchase Forum 26 07-08-2011 05:51 AM
Noob wonderings and questions about sailing, life at sail and sailboats Vans General Discussion (sailing related) 49 06-20-2011 12:18 AM
A List of ALL sailboats made with layouts? Myblueheaven Boat Review and Purchase Forum 8 10-08-2010 11:32 AM
Failure to Navigate - interesting post on Panbo Blog & from the NewsReader Mass Bay Sailors 0 12-11-2006 06:15 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:33 AM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.