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  #6581  
Old 04-17-2014
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Bob: An update on Catari would be awesome!
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  #6582  
Old 04-17-2014
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Yes, her South Sea is the production version of CATARI.
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  #6583  
Old 04-17-2014
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

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Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
Bjung:
A correction for Paulo. Mark Mills is in the UK not the US. Get upset if you like paulo but that is a fact.

...
A correction to you: Mills is not based in UK but on Ireland.

I mentioned it because contrary to Bruce Farr and Jim Pugh he is a native American. Probably he has not an American cabinet because most of his work is in Europe even if it is from the three firms the only one that has made a recent design for what was once a charismatic US brand: C&C yachts
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Last edited by PCP; 04-17-2014 at 11:08 AM.
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  #6584  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

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Originally Posted by PCP View Post
A correction to you: Mills is not based in UK but on Ireland.

I mentioned it because contrary to Bruce Farr and Jim Pugh he is a native American. Probably he has not an American cabinet because most of his work is in Europe even if it is from the three firms the only one that has made a recent design for what was once a charismatic US brand: C&C yachts
I thought C&C was Canadian.......
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  #6585  
Old 04-17-2014
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

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I thought C&C was Canadian.......
Canadian firm, during their prime, they're currently based in the "province" of Rhode Island, as part of U.S. Watercraft. But it's common practice, both in the U.S. and elsewhere, to conflate Canada as part of the U.S.

Well, probably not in Canada....

Similarly, the Irish would not be amused to be lumped in with the UK, considering how many hundreds of years it took them to rid themselves of colonial rule. Mills is an American, based in County Wicklow, possibly taking advantage of Ireland's generous tax incentives for business. I'm guessing it's not because of the weather.

Farr is often referred to as a U.S. design firm, even through Bruce Farr isn't an American. Given their scope, it would probably be more accurate to call them a global design firm. But, of course, their HQ is in Annapolis, MD, which technically makes them a U.S. firm, I suppose.

I guess the sailing industry is a lot like the Americas Cup - everyone is from everywhere and "national" labels are primarily for marketing and tax purposes.

NOTE: I don't have any sales data in front of me, but it's quite likely that C&C's primary market was the United States, which would make them, in certain respects, a "U.S. brand" - charismatic or otherwise. But certainly there was great pride among Canadians when C&C boats turned up at major North American regattas and kicked butt on U.S. and U.K. designed boats. I don't think I've ever sailed on a C&C boat, but there are still plenty of them on the water (pretty sure there's a C&C 110 moored across the way from my office).
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  #6586  
Old 04-17-2014
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

At one point, while a Canadian firm, C&C was the largest production sailboat builder in North America.

Ironically, their foray into building in the U.S. was a significant factor in their downfall - they lost a bundle on it apparently.

P.S. Taxes are the reason for all the yacht designers in Ireland - Holland was an early tax refugee there IIRC. It was because of a very lenient tax category for artists at the time, not business in general.
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  #6587  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

"But it's common practice, both in the U.S. and elsewhere, to conflate Canada as part of the U.S. "

That will come as a big surprise to a lot of my Canadian friends.
C&C will always be known of as a Canadian design team.

Mark Mill's family lives in Ireland. Mark is as much American as I am Australian.

Nice photo taken by Jan's Marine Photography of Kim's FRANCIS LEE slipping to weather in 12+ knots, doing 9.5 knots and heeling about 15 degrees, feather light helm and everyone having a great time.
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  #6588  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

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"But it's common practice, both in the U.S. and elsewhere, to conflate Canada as part of the U.S. "
While in New Zealand several years ago we were mistaken for Canadians. We did not feel it would be polite to correct the Kiwi's who thought Seattle was part of BC. (And I am the grandson of a Canadian, so close enough.)
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

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Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
"But it's common practice, both in the U.S. and elsewhere, to conflate Canada as part of the U.S. "

That will come as a big surprise to a lot of my Canadian friends.
C&C will always be known of as a Canadian design team.

Mark Mill's family lives in Ireland. Mark is as much American as I am Australian.
As I said, it will come as no surprise to anyone, including Canadians, that many Americans and others conflate Canada with the U.S. all the time. Canadians lament and ridicule this practice, underscoring, as it does, Americans' general lack of geographical knowledge.

My family lived for many years in Hong Kong. One of my brothers was born in Japan and another has lived in the Philippines for 34 years. Doesn't change the fact that we've got an American passports.

Perhaps we can ping Mark and ask him what he considers himself to be? I think you've got him on speed dial, IIRC.

But, as I said, "nationality" is just an accident of birth, of political or commercial expediency, or state of mind. I don't have much time for it myself.

EDIT: From Mills' site: "Originally from California, Mills studied Yacht Design at the Southampton Institute while racing with some of the best teams in the UK, before launching his first design Aztec in Ireland in 1996." I'm originally from California, too, and have actually been to Southampton. Mark and I must be related.
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  #6590  
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Re: Interesting Sailboats

Peli:
No need to be snide.

No, don't have Mark on Speed dial. But I think Mark considers himself Irish. He speaks with a nice English accent though with no Irish overtones or undertones. I made a joke to him once when he was interning to the fact that I'd like to come to England and stay in his castle. He said, you can come stay in the castle but the castle is in Ireland.
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