Interesting Sailboats - Page 66 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Boat Review and Purchase Forum
 Not a Member? 


Like Tree1266Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #651  
Old 02-08-2011
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 260
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 6
bb74 is on a distinguished road
I'll have to wait until the Elan 350 is available for rental. I find that it's not until the 3rd day you see what works and doesn't. 3 hour daysails with the dealers gives part of the picture but not all of it. My plan is extended 8-12 week cruises + off season long weekends in the Med over the course of 4-5 years. Gibraltar to Jordan and back again (maybe ;-)) Hopefully a Transquadra on the back of that and then who knows what.

The Elan looks like a really nice boat. I've been in the J97 and A35 and sailed a J109, A31, etc and the 350 looks like a better fit, better built, more modern design which is saying something. In fact, it almost makes you feel like you shouldn't have those luxuries in a boat of that design.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #652  
Old 02-08-2011
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 290
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 5
myocean is on a distinguished road
It's disappointing to read this about the RM.
My problem with the ELANs is the draft and I already looked forward to the successor of RM 1200.
So for the moment the Pogo with lifting keel is the best? The problem there is the spartan interior.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #653  
Old 02-08-2011
PCP's Avatar
PCP PCP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal, West Coast
Posts: 16,187
Thanks: 21
Thanked 98 Times in 81 Posts
Rep Power: 10
PCP will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by bb74 View Post
I'll have to wait until the Elan 350 is available for rental. I find that it's not until the 3rd day you see what works and doesn't. 3 hour daysails with the dealers gives part of the picture but not all of it. ....
You are absolutely right. That's why I have charted last year a Dufour 425, just to find out that I don't want that type of boat. And I say that type of boat because that boat will not be substantially different from a Jeanneau 409 or a Hanse 430, at least in what is concerned with sailing. They are all very good cruising boats, fast boats, but I had to sail one for a considerable period of time to know that is not what I was looking for.

I also have no doubts that fast as it is, a RM 1060 is not the same kind of boat as an Elan 350. This one is in the same class as the Pogo 10,50 or the J109. All different but all giving a completely different feeling than the RM 1060.

Now, if you want to circumnavigate, take the RM1060. I believe that definition by the French magazine : "A good behaved adventurer" will be very useful for extensive offshore cruising. For racing the Transquadra I would pick the Elan 350 or the Pogo.

PS. the version tested was the twin keel version, the more common one.

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 02-08-2011 at 07:02 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #654  
Old 02-08-2011
PCP's Avatar
PCP PCP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal, West Coast
Posts: 16,187
Thanks: 21
Thanked 98 Times in 81 Posts
Rep Power: 10
PCP will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by myocean View Post
It's disappointing to read this about the RM.
My problem with the ELANs is the draft and I already looked forward to the successor of RM 1200.
So for the moment the Pogo with lifting keel is the best? The problem there is the spartan interior.
The Elan has a 2.15 draft. Is this too much for your cruising grounds?

The RM1060 has 1.65 on the twin keel version, but already 1.95 on the fin keel version. It is possible that the somewhat weak performance close to the wind has to do with that short draft of the twin keel version. There are no miracles

The RM 1200 has 1.8 draft on the twin keel version but already 2.20 on the fin keel version.

Regards

Paulo
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #655  
Old 02-08-2011
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 260
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 6
bb74 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
You are absolutely right. That's why I have charted last year a Dufour 425, just to find out that I don't want that type of boat. And I say that type of boat because that boat will not be substantially different from a Jeanneau 409 or a Hanse 430, at least in what is concerned with sailing. They are all very good cruising boats, fast boats, but I had to sail one for a considerable period of time to know that is not what I was looking for.

I also have no doubts that fast as it is, a RM 1060 is not the same kind of boat as an Elan 350. This one is in the same class as the Pogo 10,50 or the J109. All different but all giving a completely different feeling than the RM 1060.

Now, if you want to circumnavigate, take the RM1060. I believe that definition by the French magazine : "A good behaved adventurer" will be very useful for extensive offshore cruising. For racing the Transquadra I would pick the Elan 350 or the Pogo.

PS. the version tested was the twin keel version, the more common one.

Regards

Paulo
Unfortunately, the Med has fewer "racing type" boats for bareboat charter than on the Atlantic coast (at least in France). I know exactly what you mean about "that type of boat". I'm renting an Oceanis 37 in May and an Sun Odyssey 36i end August because in the sailing areas I want to go to, there aren't any "sexier" boats without having to add a full 1-2 days of sailing to get there and back which with the family isn't an option.

As for Dufour, I sailed 2 weeks on a 325... plain vanilla. Same on a SunOdyssey 35. Just no excitement factor. Step onto a Grande Suprise (like the A31) and have that one finger control on the tiller and it's a whole "nother" story.

As for the Pogo, I'm really hoping they adopt the 12.50 rigging set-up without the pataras on a future 10.50 model. JM Finot had one custom built with inbound winches, rotating mast and no pataras/basteque which was pretty cool. Also had an innovative foresail with lattes which sounds promising. Google Pogo 10.50, finot, mat aile and you should find the pdf.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #656  
Old 02-09-2011
PCP's Avatar
PCP PCP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal, West Coast
Posts: 16,187
Thanks: 21
Thanked 98 Times in 81 Posts
Rep Power: 10
PCP will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by bb74 View Post
Unfortunately, the Med has fewer "racing type" boats for bareboat charter than on the Atlantic coast (at least in France). I know exactly what you mean about "that type of boat". I'm renting an Oceanis 37 in May and an Sun Odyssey 36i end August because in the sailing areas I want to go to, there aren't any "sexier" boats without having to add a full 1-2 days of sailing to get there and back which with the family isn't an option.

As for Dufour, I sailed 2 weeks on a 325... plain vanilla. Same on a SunOdyssey 35. Just no excitement factor. Step onto a Grande Suprise (like the A31) and have that one finger control on the tiller and it's a whole "nother" story.

As for the Pogo, I'm really hoping they adopt the 12.50 rigging set-up without the pataras on a future 10.50 model. JM Finot had one custom built with inbound winches, rotating mast and no pataras/basteque which was pretty cool. Also had an innovative foresail with lattes which sounds promising. Google Pogo 10.50, finot, mat aile and you should find the pdf.
Yes, I had felt that difference very clearly when I have test sailed on two consecutive days a RM 1200 and an Opium 39. I know that the RM1200 is among the fastest cruisers and is a very good boat but both boats are in completely different worlds in what regards feeling, acceleration and pleasure.

Regarding the personal Finot Pogo, I know the boat. I have read a comparative test among that boat and a standard 10.50. Finot special version is much cooler and also faster but it would also cost a lot more to produce. I have doubts that it would be a smart move to have it produced. Probably the cost would be too high for the increased performance.

Regarding charter boats, perhaps you should consider Croatia. Great cruising grounds, cheap flights and some good performance cruisers to charter: The Elan line, the Salona line and the Dufour performance line, all new boats.

Take a look at scenery:

ACI 2010

Regards

Paulo
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #657  
Old 02-09-2011
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 260
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 6
bb74 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Yes, I had felt that difference very clearly when I have test sailed on two consecutive days a RM 1200 and an Opium 39. I know that the RM1200 is among the fastest cruisers and is a very good boat but both boats are in completely different worlds in what regards feeling, acceleration and pleasure.

Regarding the personal Finot Pogo, I know the boat. I have read a comparative test among that boat and a standard 10.50. Finot special version is much cooler and also faster but it would also cost a lot more to produce. I have doubts that it would be a smart move to have it produced. Probably the cost would be too high for the increased performance.

Regarding charter boats, perhaps you should consider Croatia. Great cruising grounds, cheap flights and some good performance cruisers to charter: The Elan line, the Salona line and the Dufour performance line, all new boats.

Take a look at scenery:

ACI 2010

Regards

Paulo
This spring it's St Tropez/Marseille area, then this summer it's Corsica and Sardaigne. Maybe next year!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #658  
Old 02-10-2011
PCP's Avatar
PCP PCP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal, West Coast
Posts: 16,187
Thanks: 21
Thanked 98 Times in 81 Posts
Rep Power: 10
PCP will become famous soon enough
Salona 41 boat test

I have read an interesting test sail about the Salona 41:



You all know that this boat is a favorite of mine. Since I have laid my eyes on it, on the last summer on the Salona shipyard, it seemed to me that it would be a great sailboat. After reading this test sail, it is even more favorite.

The test was published on the German magazine "Segel journal". They say about the boat (translated):

"A really fast family boat:

A strong and easy to maneuverer performance cruiser with regatta potential at a good price....

...The boat can be sailed easily in a relax way by a family and with a crew of 4 or 5 is a contender for the first posts on a sail race...

...A modern, fast and beautiful boat with good finish at a good price."


Well, what can I say. My type of boat

SEGEL JOURNAL - Startseite
SEGEL JOURNAL 05/10 Video
Home - Salona Yachts

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 10-23-2013 at 11:44 AM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #659  
Old 02-11-2011
PCP's Avatar
PCP PCP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal, West Coast
Posts: 16,187
Thanks: 21
Thanked 98 Times in 81 Posts
Rep Power: 10
PCP will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdw View Post
Paulo,

....

Now, you know that I like the Pogo for what she is but for a 'cruising' circumnavigation I don't get it. Ok, so I am a much more laid back sailor than you or it seems MyOcean but out at sea in anything other than really calm conditions 15 knots and up is simply going to be bloody uncomfortable and a hell of a lot of work. I appreciate the argument about getting there as fast as possible but as long as I have a boat capable of topping ten or so knots in the right conditions then I will be a happy chappy indeed. If I want a burst of 15knts then I'll come sailing with you guys.
...
Andrews,

this is old, but I was just making the listings of boats to post on the 1th page and I found this post of yours that I have never replied and perhaps that the reply can clarify some of this boat characteristics.

Upwind the Pogo will not make a big difference for any modern performance cruiser but will make a considerable difference downwind. A circumnavigation, if made by the right side and on the right season is very much downwind sailing and many times with 25/30K winds.

On a typical old cruiser with 40ft if you have 30K wind on the back you go a bit over hull speed and stop there. Probably the boat will go at 8/9 K, deep buried in the water and making a big bow wave. You will have over the deck 23 or 24K wind. If there are waves the boat tend to be a bit instable and rolls a bit from one side to the other and if those rolls came in synchronism with the wave, they can be increased to the point of being dangerous. You have to be at the wheel to prevent that.

On a boat like the Pogo 12.50, the boat starts planing at 12K. It means that at 12K it is already over hull speed. With 30K wind the boat is very light over the water and doing 17K or a bit more. At speed the boat is very stable (speed also increases stability). Its large transom prevents the rolling motion you find on the older boat and you can leave it on autopilot even when you go to sleep. As a bonus you have over the deck a lot less wind (probably 15K or so).

That's not only about speed, but also about comfort and safety and that's why for an experienced sailor makes sense to circumnavigate (or make passages) on a boat like the Pogo. After all it was for that purpose that kind of hull was designed

Regards

Paulo
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #660  
Old 02-11-2011
PCP's Avatar
PCP PCP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal, West Coast
Posts: 16,187
Thanks: 21
Thanked 98 Times in 81 Posts
Rep Power: 10
PCP will become famous soon enough
Hanse 445

Very nice images of the new Hanse 445...at least while they are filming the boat from the outside

Getestet: Die neue Hanse 445 - YACHT: YACHT tv

Jesus what is wrong with the Germans? Can't they hire a French or an Italian to do their interior designs?

The boat looks fast and clean...I mean in what regards outside looks and sailing. Well, I suppose some guys like that interior...I would prefer not to comment, I will just say that I like the hull ports .

Last edited by PCP; 10-23-2013 at 11:45 AM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 2 (0 members and 2 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Cruising sailboats for sale welch Cruising & Liveaboard Forum 10 04-25-2012 05:20 PM
THE Yacht Builder List T37Chef Boat Review and Purchase Forum 26 07-08-2011 05:51 AM
Noob wonderings and questions about sailing, life at sail and sailboats Vans General Discussion (sailing related) 49 06-20-2011 12:18 AM
A List of ALL sailboats made with layouts? Myblueheaven Boat Review and Purchase Forum 8 10-08-2010 11:32 AM
Failure to Navigate - interesting post on Panbo Blog & from the NewsReader Mass Bay Sailors 0 12-11-2006 06:15 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:13 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.