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Interesting Sailboats

3M views 7K replies 205 participants last post by  tdw 
#1 · (Edited)
Sirius 32, Sirius 35

THE OBJECT OF THIS THREAD:

Interesting sailboats in production and available on the new boat market (only boats with modern designs, meaning that the boats still in production but made with old designs are out). Recent designs out of production are also admissible.

Modern boat designs and modern one off, if interesting.

Classical boats and traditional boats.

Small cruisers (less than 35ft)

Seezunge 27ft: PG1-PT9

Hanse 325: PG19-PT185;

Presto 30 : 33-326; 33-327; 34-331; 34-333; 55-543; 55-544;

Tess Yachts: 37-366; 38-373;

Tess 28 Magnum: 37-369; 38-371;

Delphia 28: 38-373;

Vancouver 27/28 : 42-412; 72-717;

Cruisers between 35ft and 49ft


Catalina 355 : 31-306;

RM sailboats: PG5-PT41; 5-42

RM1050: PG5-PT46; 5-47; 5-48;

RM 1060: PG8-PT77; 8-78; 8-79; 8-80; 9-81; 30-295; 40-400; 79-786;

RM 1200: PG9-PT84; 9-85; 19-184; 20-191; 20-192; 41-404; 42-414; 42-418; 43-425; 43-426; 69-688;

RM 1350: PG9-PT82; 55-549; 95-943;

Morris Yachts: PG7-PT61

Bavaria 36: PG19-PT188; 19-190; 20-196;

Bavaria 40: PG10-PT95; 28-278; 29-281; 29-282; 29-283; 29-286; 32-316; 36-356; 51-502; 51-507; 52-518; 53-527; 53-532;

Bavaria 40s: 69-685; 78-775;

Bavaria 45: PG10-PT96; 19-190;

Rustler Yachts: PG11-PT104;

Jeanneau 409: PG11-PT103: 11-106; 30-298; 30-299; 36-356; 51-502; 51-504; 51-505; 51-509; 52-513; 52-514; 52-515; 52-516; 53-527; 54-532; 57-564; 57-570; 58-571; 58-580; 59-581; 59-583; 59-585; 62-614; 74-739; 91-906;

Jeanneau 439: 40-396; 40-397; 59-584; 59-585; 96-956;

Hanse Yachts: 16-154; 16-156; 16-158;

Hanse 400: 81-804;

Bluewater cruising yachts: 21-206

Beneteau Oceanis 37 : 31-306; 31-308; 31-309; 32-314; 55-541;

XC 38: 36-356; 96-954;

Diva 38: 39-386;

Diva 35: 40-391;

Dufour 405: 62-614;

Defline 43: 63-622

Walkabout 43: 93-923; 93-925; 93-927;

Small performance cruisers (less than 35ft)


Performance 32ft test: 29-87;

Sun Fast 3200: PG4-PT33; 4-34; 4-36; 30-293;

Elan 210: 70-691; 70-696; 78-779; 79-781;

Elan 310: PC7-PT64; 7-69; 8-71; 36-356; 41-408;

Quest 33: PG7-PT62

Olea 32: 25-243; 25-245;

First 27.7: 38-373; 38-380; 39-382;

First 30: 30-295; 39-356; 41-408; 55-545; 55-546;

Comet 26: 34-340; 35-345; 35-350; 36-353;

Pacer 30: 36-357;

Django 7.7: 40-399;

Vivace/Evosion 34: 45-442; 45-446; 45-445; 45-446; 45-447; 45-448; 45-449; 45-450; 46-458; 46-460;

Finn Flyer 34: 46-451; 46-453; 60-593;

Salona 34: 46-457;

Heol 7.4: 63-621; 63-622;

Azuree 33: 87-867; 91-902; 91-904;

JPK 10.10: 88-877 ; 88-880; 89-883;

Performance cruisers (between 35ft and 49ft)

Pogo 10.50: PG2-PT20; 3-27; 3-28; 3-30; 4-35; 5-50; 6-51; 6-52; 6-60; 11-101; 11-107; 11-110; 43-425; 44-440; 87-861; 87-867;

Pogo 12.50: PG13-PT125; 20-198; 20-199; 22-214; 27-264; 27-265; 27-269; 32-317; 32-319; 43-425; 43-426; 43-428; 44-432; 44-437; 44-439; 55-546; 55-547; 82-812; 84-831; 87-870;

Este 40: 89-890; 90-893; 90-899;

A35: PG5-PT42; 5-44; 66-660;

A40RC: 92-914;

Hammerhead 35: 64-645

Opium 39: PG5-PT42; 9-85; 9-89; 13-125; 22-220; 22-221; 43-426; 55-547; 86-857;

Aerodyne 35: PG7-PT62

Elan 350: PG7-PT64; 13-24; 13-126; 13-127; 13-128; 14-132; 18-178; 26-255; 36-356; 40-398; 41-405; 57-564; 59-589; 60-591; 72-711; 73-724; 74-738;

Elan 380: 23-223; 25-249; 26-256; 40-398; 59-589; 97-962;

Elan 410: 32-316; 79-784;

JPK 110: PG9-PT85; 10-91

Olea 44: PG10-PT100; 27-268;

Olea Yachts: 25-247;

Dufour 40e: Pg13-Pt125; 32-316; 55-547; 56-558; 56-559; 57-561; 57-562; 57-563; 59-586; 59-588,

Salona 37: 36-359; 41-406;

Salona 41: PG15-PT141; 15-145; 32-316; 36-356; 40-398; 54-538; 57-569; 78-778; 80-796; 80-798; 97-965;

Salona 42: PG15-PT145; 36-359; 40-398; 93-929; 94-932;

Cigale 16: PG15-PT148; 16-152; 17-161; 55-549; 63-625;

Cigale 14: PG17-PT163; 55-549;

Santa Cruz 43: PG17-PT169

Sydney Yachts: PG18-PT171; 18-175;

Sydney GTS 37: 43-423;

Sydney GTS 43: PG18-PT173;

Winner 12.20: PG20-193;

First 40: 31-304; 32-313; 32-316; 35-344; 36-354; 55-546; 55-547;

First 35: 36-356

Dehler 41: 30-296;

Dehler 44: 79-785;

Dehler 45: 36-356; 79-785;

Luffe 40.04: 30-300; 31-301; 31-303;

XP 38: 56-533; 56-544; 56-555; 67-622;

XP 44: 33-325;

Pacer 430: 36-357;

Pacer 376: 36-357; 66-652; 69-683;

Faurby 424: 36-360; 37-361; 37-363; 37-365;

Comfortina 39: 40-395;

J 133: 43-426; 63-620

J 111: 100-993;

Maxi 11: 99-982;

Arcona yachts: 46-456;

Arcona 410: 47-467; 47-468; 47-469; 48-471;

Arcona 430: 48-472;

Arcona 460: 50-495

Finngulf yachts: 46-456;

Varianta 44: 60-594; 60-595; 60-596; 60-597; 60-598; 64-639;

Imagine 53: 63-628;

Zou 40.2: 63-620

Ker 39: 68-676;

Finn-Flyer 42: 77-762;

Azuree 40: 85-842;

Loft 40: 85-848; 85-852;

Vivace 35: 90-895;

Sailing boats over 49ft

Zeydon 60 : PG 12-119;

JP 54: PG18-PT172;

Salona 60: 70-695;

Stadships: PG20-PT193; 20-195;

Pogo 50: 32-318; 32-319;

X-50: 54-537;

Murtic 52: 54-537;

Decksaloons and pilot house sailing boats

Sirius 32: PG1-PT1

Sirius 35: PG1-PT1; 1-10; 2-18; 50-491; 50-492; 60-559; 60-599;

Sirius 31: PG1-PT5; 2-17; 36-356;

Regina 35: 48-478;

Regina 40: PG11-PT104; 49-481; 49-483;

Southerly yachts: PG11-PT104;

Luffe 43DS: PG12-PT111; 12-115; 50-494;

Noordkaper 40: PG14-pt139;

Noordkaper yachts: PG16-PT155

Nordship 36: 30-297; 49-482;

Nordship 38: 49-482; 49-490;

Paulo's pilot house I: 38-376; 39-381; 39-383; 39-384;

Paulo's pilot house II: 69-682

Lyman & Morse 45: 38-379;

CR 38DS: 48-477; 48-478;

CR 40DS: 48-476; 48-478; 48-479; 50-494; 50-496; 50-497; 50-498;

Arcona 40DS: 50-494;

Racers

Figaro 2:pG4-PT36; 4-37; 5-42; 6-52; 6-53; 6-55; 6-56

VOR 70: PG16-PT160; 17-187

Farr 400: 67-661

Soto 40: 96-952;

Lifting keel/centerboarder

Southerly yachts: PG11-PT104;

Allures 45: PG10-PT93; 100-996;

Allures yachts: 25-248;

OVNI 425: 23-228;

OVNI 395 : 68-679; 69-690;

J 108: 67-661

Atlantic 43: 68-67

Boreal 44: 97-970; 98-974;

Multihulls till 34ft

Several Trimarans: 28-273;

Multihulls with 34ft and over

Dragonfly yachts: 26-257;

Dragonfly 35: 26-258; 27-261; 27-262;

Dragonfly 1200: 56-551;

Corsair 37: 28-276;

Farrier 39: 28-277;

Challenge 37: 28-278

Hammerhead 34: 29-385;

Hammerhead 54: 29-288; 30-292;

Trimax 10.80: 29-285;

Sig 45: 54-534; 54-539; 54-540;

Gunboat: 56-551

Fusion: 56-551;

Outremer: 56-551;

Tournier: 56-511;

Classical and Traditional boats

Jclass boats: 54-537;

Tofinou 12: 71-703;

Folck boat: 73-727;

Puffin Yachts: PG14-PT135; 14-138; 16-155;

Bestwind 50: PG12-PT116; 14-123;

Bestevaer 53: PG12-PT116;

Bestevaer yachts: PG16-PT155

Cape George 36: 41-410; 42-412;

Marieholm 33 : 42-412;

This list is not actualized. Please use the advanced search engine of the thread with the name of the model and builder. It works, most of the time.

(actualized till PG100) and it will be no more because that gives a lot of work (500 pages now).

Instead I am actualizing the titles and with the right title the thread search engine (not the one on the top of the page bit the one much below that says search thread) on its advanced option works quite well.

Hello,

Melrna posts on Miami Boat show and the comments of Smackdady about the interest of that thread lead me to think that perhaps I could share more information about sailboats I know and find interesting.

I am interested in boat design (interior and sailing performance) and I go each year at least to one of the main European Boat shows and that means basically Dusseldorf, Paris or Hamburg. On these shows you have the opportunity not only to visit the boats of the main and medium size builders but you have also the opportunity to visit the boats of small and sometime family shipyards.

Normally they build very good sailboats and sometimes they have been doing that for decades. The boats are hugely appreciated by their faithful customers but because they don't advertise their boats and there are very few on the used boat market, they pass unnoticed by the majority of the sail community.

The visit to these boats is a very rewarding experience because they are made with passion by true boat lovers and because when you talk to the guy that is on the boat, you are not talking with a dealer, that many times doesn't know much about boats, but with the builder, or the designer.

Even if you are not a buyer they will have real pleasure in talking with someone that really appreciates and understands their work. Those guys really believe in what they are doing and they do it the best way they can, no matter the cost. In a word, they are in love with what they are doing.
Of course, these boats have to be expensive.

This thread will be mainly about these boats, as a way of letting you know about these gems. Let's see if you are interested. I will not post much. If you want to know more you have just to participate and make questions.

The first one it will be the "Sirius". I have had the pleasure to visit several times their boats and to talk with the builders (father and son).

These boats have the best interiors you can find, or at least that I have seen. Not only the quality, but the design and ergonomy are fantastic. You really won't believe you are in a 32ft boat. Just incredible and amazing; Have a look at it:

Sirius-Werft Plön | Forecabin | 32 DS for 2 forecabin
Sirius-Werft Plön | Owner´s cabin | 32 DS 4-berth comfort owner´s cabin
Sirius-Werft Plön | Workshop | 32 DS for 2 workshop

Now that the son is in charge they have modernized the outside look of the new boats, they look fantastic not only inside but also outside. The boats sail well and they have clients as far as Japan.

Sirius-Werft Plön | Versions of decks house | You have the choice

Another interesting point is the way they develop new boats. They work with the clients to collect suggestions on the shape and design of the boats. A truly interesting affair, between passionate clients and passionate builders.

Sirius-Werft Plön | 35 DS | Philosophy

Take a good look at their interesting site and if you find the boat interesting, please let me know, I can add some information.

Sirius-Werft Plön | english | Welcome at website of Sirius-Werft Plön

Regards

Paulo
 
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#2,882 · (Edited)
Sven Yrvind

This guy is incorrigible:D

After having crossed the Atlantic in this:



He is going to circumnavigate non stop on a 10ft boat:rolleyes:and probably he is going to manage it:D

His general theory:

"Most people misunderstand life. Let me explain.

Comfort does not make you happy, on the contrary it is dangerous to your health. It makes you lazy, fat and bored. It is only by using energy that you can create energy and it is the surplus of energy that makes you happy and healthy. Happiness cannot be bought for money...

n a thousand ways our civilization over stimulates us. Not just by nicotine, by cars or by lending us money. Most people nowadays are slaves to many masters.

As with all addictions we need more drugs, more borrowed money, bigger cars and bigger boats. We get deeper and deeper into trouble and misery.

With my voyage I hope to show mankind that, luckily there is an opposite way, a more natural, sane and ecological way to be happy. Slowly as I have gained insight I have made myself less and less dependent on stimulants, I have become less and less a slave. I have never used coffee, beer, vine, or tobacco, not even once. Twenty years ago I stopped drinking tee. I have no TV. Ten years ago I stopped listening to the radio. It took about a year for me to get detoxed. Now I need no radio. I hear my inner voice loud and clear. I do my own thinking...

In my planned trip I will be at sea for more than a year. There I will be protected from over stimulation. Hopefully that way I will gain much of my senses potential power and increase the clarity of my mind. A voyage like my planned one will give plentiful stimulation. I aim to come back a younger man to start building a nice small cruising boat; one not restricted by a ridicules ten feet rule".


Well, Sven is peculiar but is not mad at least in what regards sailing. Its accomplishments speak for themselves:

"Yrvind has made several ocean crossings in his tiny boats. In 1980, Yrvind rounded Cape Horn in 'Bris II', a 20'/5.90m boat of his own design, alone and in the middle of winter, a record for smallest boat to round the Cape. This achievement won Yrvind the 1980 Royal Cruising Club medal for seamanship. In the Roaring Forties he allegedly collided with a whale."



The last crossing was last year, from Europe to the US (Florida).

About sailboats he says:

"A small boat well made is safer than a big one. It is less complicated and smaller forces are acting on it. On a small boat you have more control."

And he really means small:D Take a look at the model for the circumnavigation:



A true nutshell:D You know that in Portuguese, that is a language with a lot of expressions taken from the sea and boats mean figuratively the weakest of all boats: "A casca de noz".

Obviously he don't think that way;)

The project:



The boat:





 
#2,883 · (Edited)
Bavaria 33.

Well, in what regards new, the hull, it is the same that was designed by Farr some years ago, but all the rest is different.

It seems that it is the first one on the cruiser line that will share a new look, in the outside and inside... and it was needed. The actual line is, with the exception to the new Visions, ugly and with strong but not very well designed interiors. I mean they are practical but are ages away from the design quality on Italian and French boats.

I like the new design and interiors. Pity that this boat will not offer a traveler. Maybe a good dealer with good contacts on the factory can command one with reinforcements on the settee bench near the wheel to install one. Of course that will imply to ditch that table and have a removable one.







For the ones that are interested on this size an interesting comparative test between the new Hanse 345 and Bavaria 33 can be found on the last edition of yacht magazine, both boats at the water at the same time?:



 
#2,885 ·
Hanse 325/345

Hanse 325:



Well, I don't understand why they have a relatively new 325 and now they make a 345:rolleyes:. Less than a ft difference seems not to make sense in what regards a line but in fact the boats are very different. I don't think the 325 is a match for the Bavaria, that looks better and nicer but the 345 is another story and that's probably why Yacht magazine chose to make a comparative between the Bavaria 33 and the 345 and not the 325 that is closer in size and probably in price.

As I said the 345 is a very different boat and I like it. It seems to me the better design on the new line of Hanse: Not too beamy with 3.50 and with a high B/D for this class of boats (33%) the boat looks bigger than a 34ft and the interior looks better designed than on other Hanse.

I bet this boat is going to be a best seller notm only among the Hanse boats, but globally. A pity the lack of a traveller but maybe a big dealer can convince the guys from Hanse to put on the top of the cabin the necessary reinforcements to mount one.



 
#2,888 ·
Re: Hanse 325/345

Hanse 325:

Well, I don't understand why they have a relatively new 325 and now they make a 345:rolleyes:. Less than a ft difference seems not to make sense in what regards a line but in fact the boats are very different. I don't think the 325 is a match for the Bavaria, that looks better and nicer but the 345 is another story and that's probably why Yacht magazine chose to make a comparative between the Bavaria 33 and the 345 and not the 325 that is closer in size and probably in price.

As I said the 345 is a very different boat and I like it. It seems to me the better design on the new line of Hanse: Not too beamy with 3.50 and with a high B/D for this class of boats (33%) the boat looks bigger than a 34ft and the interior looks better designed than on other Hanse.

I bet this boat is going to be a best seller notm only among the Hanse boats, but globally. A pity the lack of a traveller but maybe a big dealer can convince the guys from Hanse to put on the top of the cabin the necessary reinforcements to mount one.
Hi Paulo

There is a rumour that the new H345 will replace the 325 and the 355 which would then make sense - the range would then be 345, 385, 415, 445, 495, 545, 575 and 630e

The Hanse owners website now has a separate section for the H345 - New Hanse 345 - myHanse - Hanse Yachts Owners Forum - Page 1

I have reviewed the H345 in this forum.

I think Hanse introduced the H345 in response to the Dufour 335. Both boats offer a lot of boat for their size and include some really interesting innovations. One point to note is the mainsheet system with Hanse opting for the coachroof block system and Dufour opting for a pad eye in the cockpit system that is fitted to the cockpit table.

Voile et Voilier in the November edition commented that the H345 offered pleasure with complete security and found the boat to be very seaworthy. At Euro 100,344 the new H345 will be hard to beat if you are looking for a cruiser of this size. Just my opinion as a Hanse owner without any other affiliations
 
#2,887 · (Edited)
Hi there Paolo!

I haven´t checked in for a couple of days, you guys have really been posting! :D

As you know I have a weakness for lead free sailing... Say hello two some lucky bastards :eek::
<....

Cheers!

//Mr W
Paulo, not Paolo:rolleyes:

Well, probably you did not see these guys on a Jeanneau 3200 going fast. Ok, it is a lead one but also one that costs 1/3 of the Dragonfly. They say the max speed was 2K superior of the max one on that Trimaran and they don't say it is a record so...:D. The guys look also a lot less nervous:D



Since we are talking about the Jeanneau 3200, look at this guy racing on a Dufour 45e that cannot believe he cannot go faster than a small 32ft performance cruiser.

I cannot wait to see if the new Jeanneau Sunfast 36 will be faster;)



Regards

Paulo
 
#2,892 · (Edited)
Elan 400

Here´s the latest addition from Elan, the 400!









And specs:

Overall Length 11.95
Length WL 11.26
Beam 3.87
Draft 2.40
Engine 40 hp
Water Capacity 310 liters
Fuel Capacity 170 liters

Mainsail 54.56
Genoa 37.6
Gennaker 135

Weight???

"Expected to be seriously fast and responsive, the Elan 400 will feature a completely rethinked and restyled interior, among the tried and tested VOR inspired wide transom, chined hull and twin rudders."

"In principle, it is an overgrown 350, but geared a little more towards IRC so that it does not fall outside of the measurement systems"

"It has been taken quite a lot more stability into the design with more weight in the keel and a narrower boat, proportionately, than the Elan 350"

What´s your opinion?

//Mr W
 
#2,895 ·
Hey Paulo,

of course I know that there is a big difference between the Salona and maybe a SunFast. What I do not know up to now is how much comfort I am going to need. I guess the Salona is too much but the SunFast might be too less.

There are some boats on my wishlist that I want to have a detailed view on.

From racer to cruiser (as I think):

Jeanneau SunFast 36
Archambault A35
Summit 35 (wheeled version)
MacConaghy MC R35
Beneteau First 35
J/108
Salona 35s (Performance or IBC)
 
#2,898 · (Edited)
MacConaghy MCR35

Hey Paulo,

of course I know that there is a big difference between the Salona and maybe a SunFast. What I do not know up to now is how much comfort I am going to need. I guess the Salona is too much but the SunFast might be too less.

There are some boats on my wishlist that I want to have a detailed view on.

From racer to cruiser (as I think):

Jeanneau SunFast 36
Archambault A35
Summit 35 (wheeled version)
MacConaghy MC R35
Beneteau First 35
J/108
Salona 35s (Performance or IBC)
Jesus, every guy that likes to go fast would dream to have a MacConaghy MCR35 bur unless you have a lot of money to give for a small boat it is just a dream. The boat costs USD 280 000 without tax and I am not sure that is not the price in Australia, I mean you would have to add shipping costs. This is a boat on the A35 class but faster and more expensive. A boat that weights only 4025Kg and I bet, at least 40% is ballast.







McConaghy Boats - MC-R 35

We never talked about the Summit 35, probably because the boat has some years but we talked about its big brother the King 40, also called Summit 40.

The Summit 35 it is also on the same class of the A35, a bit heavier but with a bigger B/D ratio and as fast if not more. It is also a lot more expensive.



Compared with all those the Jeanneau 3200 is inexpensive;)

I don't understand why you put the J108 on that list. It is a slow boat much slower than any of the others. If you want to put a J there put the J111.

I guess you have to define a budget, I mean what money do you have for a boat? and then what use are you going to give to your boat?

Remember that one thing is a boat that needs a full crew to exploit its potential, other boats that are easy to sail solo and that for the price of a high-tech boat used mostly for racing you can have a bigger performance cruiser that can go as fast with a solo sailor, with more comfort and a better sea motion and a lot more of interior space.

Of course if it is mostly for racing with a crew that is a different story;).

Regards

Paulo
 
#2,896 · (Edited)
Elan 400

Some more images:









And still nothing on the Elan website:rolleyes:

They had removed the "old" Elan 410 and have nothing about this boat.

Regarding this boat why do i think it is going to be a much lighter boat?

If the information posted by K is correct in what regards sail area, this boat will have 92.12m2 of sail. The 410 has 105.1m2 for 8300kg. The 410 is a great fast cruising boat but it proved to be too slow on the regatta course.

So they need a faster boat and they will have one with less 13m2 of sail? That can only mean a much lighter boat.

If we compare both boats:





We will see that the last one has less wet area, less rocker and that particularly on the aft part of the hull the boat has a soft line from the keel till the transom. That is a boat designed to plane downwind and for that it has to be light;)

We can see also that they have a more efficient keel and two rudders instead of one. All good news in what regards speed and control. Not so much in what regards sea motion and comfort, but we cannot have it all can we?;)
 
#2,897 · (Edited)
Nautical Market

Some interesting facts and comments:

Europe:

Today the number of produced boats is less than half of what it was is 2007.

There is a 40% increase in the boats over 40ft and a 60% decrease on boats with less than 40ft. That make the total decrease in market value effectively a lot less than 50% comparing with 2007.

The average age of the buyer of a new boat is 60 years old:eek:

Somme comments:

It seems to me that the crisis is here to stay at that many of the boats are bought by retired guys, with age to enjoy the boats, by guys that have been saving all along their live or enjoy a comfortable financial position at the end of its working life.

Young people are not buying and I guess the reasons are clear:

One factor is that what was initially convenient for big boat builders seems to be turning against them: Most of them change of model each 3 or 4 years and that leads to a devaluation of almost new boats on the market making in fact a good business to buy a 5 year old boat at 50% of a new boat.

Another factor is the cost of owning a boat in a nice place. They are high and have been increasing. When I sold my 6 year's old mass market 36ft I made some calculations and found out that it had cost me over 15 000 euros a year:eek: and that is in Portugal. On most Europe you will pay a lot more, and even more if it is a bigger boat.

This kind of money will allow you to charter a new boat for 7 weeks on a year (on the nicest spots) and that is more than what most people enjoy in a year, so it is only natural that young guys that have money for new boats opt for charter and leave all the hassle and money that cost to maintain a boat behind.

Conclusion:

I don't see any indication that the costs associated with having a boat are decreasing, nor the crisis, quite the contrary, so I would guess this is a tendency that is going to be maintained:

A bigger target market for old guys that want boats bigger than 40ft (many retired), a target Charter Market for 40ft boats or bigger, a small market for guys rich enough to race/cruiser on new top of the cream boats, and a tiny market for true racing boats. The market for cruisers smaller than 38ft will continue to decrease, while inexpensive day boats (and even expensive ones) will be on the raise.

Looking at the positive side, the interest on sail and sailboats and the boats on the water seems not having decreased I would say that has even increased:

The Boat show tickets had not decreased in number and it seems to me that on charting grounds the number of sailing boats is bigger each year.

Care to comment?

...
 
#2,900 · (Edited)
Re: Nautical Market

Some interesting facts and comments:

Europe:

Today the number of produced boats is less than half of what it was is 2007.

There is a 40% increase in the boats over 40ft and a 60% decrease on boats with less than 40ft. That make the total decrease in market value effectively a lot less than 50% comparing with 2007.

The average age of the buyer of a new boat is 60 years old:eek:

Somme comments:

It seems to me that the crisis is here to stay at that many of the boats are bought by retired guys, with age to enjoy the boats, by guys that have been saving all along their live or enjoy a comfortable financial position at the end of its working life.

Young people are not buying and I guess the reasons are clear:

One factor is that what was initially convenient for big boat builders seems to be turning against them: Most of them change of model each 3 or 4 years and that leads to a devaluation of almost new boats on the market making in fact a good business to buy a 5 year old boat at 50% of a new boat.

Another factor is the cost of owning a boat in a nice place. They are high and have been increasing. When I sold my 6 year's old mass market 36ft I made some calculations and found out that it had cost me over 15 000 euros a year:eek: and that is in Portugal. On most Europe you will pay a lot more, and even more if it is a bigger boat.

This kind of money will allow you to charter a new boat for 7 weeks on a year (on the nicest spots) and that is more than what most people enjoy in a year, so it is only natural that young guys that have money for new boats opt for charter and leave all the hassle and money that cost to maintain a boat behind.

Conclusion:

I don't see any indication that the costs associated with having a boat are decreasing, nor the crisis, quite the contrary, so I would guess this is a tendency that is going to be maintained:

A bigger target market for old guys that want boats bigger than 40ft (many retired), a target Charter Market for 40ft boats or bigger, a small market for guys rich enough to race/cruiser on new top of the cream boats, and a tiny market for true racing boats. The market for cruisers smaller than 38ft will continue to decrease, while inexpensive day boats (and even expensive ones) will be on the raise.

Looking at the positive side, the interest on sail and sailboats and the boats on the water seems not having decreased I would say that has even increased:

The Boat show tickets had not decreased in number and it seems to me that on charting grounds the number of sailing boats is bigger each year.

Care to comment?

...
Hi Paulo

My thoughts

  • Sailing is an expensive hobby that requires some serious disposable income
  • It also requires time
  • Unless you are a trust account kid, it is totally understandable that the average age for private ownership is on the up for these 2 reasons
  • This also explains the massive growth in the charter market that can cater to sailors of all ages. If you want to sail for 2 or 3 weeks a year, then charter
  • If you are wanting to sail for more than 2 or 3 weeks , I believe that fractional ownership is the way to go. The initial cost is shared as are all the running costs.
  • If you are able to sail for 12 weeks and longer, then you could consider outright ownership either via a charter company ownership scheme or direct where you are responsible for maintenance etc
  • Some charter companies have ownership schemes which offer a lot of flexibility providing you are able to make use of the boat for around 12 weeks per year. Sailing for less than 12 weeks makes these schemes expensive. The downside with these schemes is that you are often told what to buy by the charter company. This of course may or may not be a bad thing :D:D. At the end of these schemes, you can either roll your investment into another new boat or adopt fractional ownership. The other downside is that the depreciation in value is often under estimated by the the charter companies
  • If you have the time to sail for at least 3 months a year, then buying your own boat makes sense. If you wanr to avoid the inevitable depreciation of buying new, then the best value purchase is from a reputable charterer at the end of 5 years when you can have the boat surveyed, have all the problems fixed and get a new set of sails. The engine hours on the boat should be irrelevant. A well maintained diesel engine is capable of doing 15000 hours. If you want to sail for more than 2 to 3 weeks but don't have the time to sail for more than say 12 weeks per year, then buy one of these boats and get some co-owners to share the costs - this way, you will avoid the capital depreciation cost.
  • The charter companies are buying boats that are becoming bigger and bigger because many charterers are sharing the costs and the need for more accommodation on board is on the up
  • On the other hand we know that sail boats and common sense often have nothing to do with one another :)))))

Just my opinion of course

Onwards n upwards

David
 
#2,903 ·
Vendee Globe

Regarding sailboat popularity in Europe, particularly in France, some good news:

"The first week of the Race Village opening drew a record number of spectators. Since 20 October, no less than 230,000 people (including 10,000 school children) have walked the pontoons where the 20 participating boats are moored. The race's popularity is clearly evident.


The success of this 7th edition is also obvious online. The race's official website drew 200,000 visitors in a week."

Vendée Globe: record attendance | Yacht News | Yachting World


Webisode 6 : La vie s'accélère aux Sables d'Olonne por VendeeGlobeTV

The race starts in about a week;)

...
 
#2,909 · (Edited)
Pogo 30

Looking good!! :D



//Mr W
I am very curious about this boat. As you know the Pogo 30 is a remake of the Pogo 8.50, a famous boat on Pogo story. The Pogo 8.50 was the first Pogo that, being more pointed to competition, namely the Transquadra, was what we could call the first Pogo that was also presented as a boat that could be used as a camping cruising boat.

I expect the Pogo 30 to have a better cruising interior and certainly with its swing keel will be a better cruising boat, but will it be faster than the 8.50?

Let's have a look at the 8.50:













The boat won the 2001 Transquadra but the boat is not competitive anymore and since The jeanneau 3200 and the A31 come to scene the difference in real time on the Transquadra is huge. Can the Pogo 30 beat the A31? I have some doubts. The boat is very similar to the 8.50 but 64cms longer . It has more 10cm of beam (3.60 to 3.70m) has more 6m2 of sail (53 to 59m2) but regarding the weight we don't know nothing and I doubt the boat can be lighter than the 8.50 (2800kg), probably it will be heavier.

So, I am very curious because this will be very relevant in what regards the performance of two different types of boats, the A31 and the Pogo 30.

Of course we are talking about a Transat that is basically a downwind race. In a upwind race the A31 would smoke the 8.50. In fact the 8.50 and the Pogo 30 in what concerns racing will be limited to Transats or offshore downwind races while the A31 is not only a great solo boat but also a winner in regatta with a crew. Of course, the running rigging will be completely different for crew and solo racing.

The A31:





We don't know the Pogo 30 ballast or B/D ratio but probably it will be similar to the 8.50 (30%) That is low if compared with the one from the A31 (43%). So we have two very different hulls, one more narrow (3.23) but with a bigger B/D ratio and other beamier (3.60) but with a smaller B/D.

Till now the A31 comes out with flying colors but the A31 is a 9.55m boat against one with 8.50m. Now the things will be more even, with the 9.14m of the new Pogo 30. I guess we will have to wait for the next Transquadra to know;)

The new Pogo 30:



 
#2,907 · (Edited)
New boat: Solaris 42

I post many types of boats that please many different sailors. I find them interesting and may beautiful but there are few that I like to own. This is one of those.

What a beautiful sailboat:)! Well some would say it is expensive but it costs not more than a HR for a similar quality, has a great interior and gives 2 times the sailing pleasure. I know, I know, some just like to cruise and want a sailboat that does the job with the least of sensations and max efficiency. Ok, ot is comprehensibly and makes sense...to some, I am not one of them:D

























They say about the boat:

For over 35 years Solaris has been creating yachts with the same philosophy, designed and built to navigate safely for many years&#8230;

Design of the waterlines is entrusted to Soto Acebal, one of the world's best naval architects, Ensuring excellent performance thanks to modern hull shapes and volumes designed for speed, stability and righting moment.

The main feature of this new 42', planned and implemented during the design stage, is a particularly solid construction unaffected by deformation and torsion in all sea and wind conditions. For this reason the 42', like all other Solaris models, boasts virtually unique reinforcing structures, that are very costly and not possible without labor-intensive techniques:

all the 40 mm thick composite bulkheads are laminated not only to the hull, but also and in particular to the deck without need of inner mouldings and silicone. &#8230;To further increase the structural stiffness all joinery is laminated to the hull. Moreover there is a structural continuity of the mast, main bulkhead, chainplates and keel attachment.
..
The 42', thanks to a precise distribution of weight and ballast, shows reduced pitch and roll ensuring smooth sailing through the waves; the boat is perfectly balanced and light at the wheels, ensuring, safe, fast and enjoyable whelming...

The new 42' is consistent with the philosophy that has always distinguished Solaris: building yachts for people who really go to sea and who appreciate: structural strength, stiffness and rigidity, combined with excellent performance in real time. All these are the real essence of seaworthiness.



Technicalcharacteristics Solaris One 42'
Loa 12.36 m
Beam 3.99 m
Draft 2.25/2.50/
Displacement 8.8t
Ballast 3.00 t
Mainsal 52 m2
Genoa (108%) 45 m2
Engine (Volvo Penta)40/55 hp
Fuel 220 l
Water 350 l
Designer Javier Soto Acebal
Interior design Lucio Micheletti

And I would say that this boat offers a moderated beam in what concerns modern tendencies (considerably lesser than most mass production 40ft cruisers) a modern hull with beam brought back (but nor really on the waterline), an highly efficient torpedo keel and an acceptable draft for cruising (2.25) while being enough to give a good performance to the ballast without the need of increasing it too much to compensate a lesser draft.

And with that high efficiency keel and considerable draft this boat has a a B/D of 34%. A stiff boat no doubt,

Not being an ultra light boat its weight is smaller than many mass production 40fts while having a sail area that will put it on the side of the more conservative performance cruisers.

A great boat, I am sure;)

I hope to see one on the Dusseldorf boat show. This one was presented in Hamburg.

....
 
#2,910 · (Edited)
Pogo 50

New movie with the Pogo 50



I have to say I am not impressed: making 10.5K with 26.3K of wind at 100º is not a big deal for a performance 50ft boat ad the sea was pretty flat for that wind. Just to give you an example the XP 44, a boat with a better interior and smaller indicates on its ORC file 10.8K with 20k wind at 110º.

This impression is confirmed by the speeds measured on a test made by voile and voiliers. they got: 8.6K speed at 45º with 16k TW.......7.5K at 50º with 10k TW....8.3K at 110º with 9k TW....12K at 140º with 13k TW. All this with almost flat sea.

If we compare this values with the ones from the Xp44 ORC file: 8.53 at 52º with 16k wind, 7.80k at 52º with 10k wind, 8.44K at 120º with 10k wind. The 140º speed value is not comparable since on the ORC file it is a value without a Spinaker and they used a big geenaker om the Pogo test.

The angles are not exactly the same (I have to use the ones on the ORC file) and they slightly favor the Xp 44, but then the XP 44 is a 13.29m boat and the Pogo 50 a 15.10m boat.

I am sure Pogo will make the difference downwind with 25/30k winds, but then, who cruises with 30K winds?

On other hand, upwind with waves the Pogo's wave drag will be much bigger than the one of the Xp 44 and I am sure that those almost similar numbers will turn clearly in favor of the XP44. Of course we are talking about a smaller boat, now, if the new XP 50 proves to be proportionally faster regarding the XP44...;)

Polars, contrary top the values on a ORC file not always completely accurate but have a look at the XP 50 Polar speeds:

http://www.x-yachts.com/uploads/Xp_50_-_Polar_-_Portrait.pdf.pdf

And the XP 50 is a boat with a gorgeous cruising interior...of course, more expensive but probably faster than the Pogo almost all the time on normal sailing circumstances.

But we are only talking about speed. The Pogo 50, that seems to have a basic but decent and practical interior will be probably easier and simpler to sail than the XP 50 and it will be a more appropriated boat to sail downwind and that's what we do on a circumnavigation, where the Pogo, will be a perfect boat: Fast, stable, easy and with a ridiculously small draft for a boat of that size.

...
 
#2,914 · (Edited)
Seascape 27

If the speed performance of the Pogo 50 did not impress me on the Voile and Voiliers magazine test, the ones obtained with the Seascape 27 test did:eek:

Well, have a look:

6.6K speed with 10k wind, close to the wind.

8.6K speed with 10k wind, at 120º

11.1K speed with 12k wind at 120º


They had called it on the article: The Slovenia Rocket:D.

This boat, a bit less longer than the Pogo 8.5 represents the other contemporary way (without a big beam) designers are following to get very fast boats.

Let's compare some numbers:

Lenght: P-8.50 S-7.99 Beam: P-3.60 S-2.54 weight: P-2800kg S-1250kg Draft: P-1,75 S-0.85/1.95m

B/D: P-30% S-48%

I have no doubts that the Pogo is a much seaworthy offshore boat, made to cross oceans and easier to sail while the Seascape is a Coastal small cruiser, but in what regards speed and fun, I guess the Seascape is on another world:D

They say about the project guidelines:

Seascape 27 offers a truly unique experience: the comfort of a 4-berth sailing boat with a separate wet room and toilet compartment, perfect for family cruising, as well as for inshore and offshore regattas, thanks to her superior sailing performance, versatility and easy handling. The boat is ready for sailing or transport in an hour or so, whereas her dimensions allow for trailer or shipping container transportation. Both innovations ensure the owner the benefits of easy accessibility to diverse cruising locations without the costs associated with year-round berthing....

The .. biggest problem that we noticed during our extensive involvement in yacht racing is: assembling a crew larger than 3-4 people is a real pain in the a**, not to mention that it is very difficult to recruit it from the members of our own families.

Therefore both our boats, 18 and 27, are designed to be shorthanded and family friendly. In practice that means that full crew for Seascape 27 in inshore races is 3 or 4, but she can easily sail double handed or solo for navigations or long distance races. Since she is light, the loads on the ropes are relatively low, and her deck gear is generously sized so that everybody can participate.



Take a look:







Curiously the boat was designed by a Racer/designer, one of the best, Sam Manuard that is a specialist on the minis. His minis are dominating the class. It is nice to see a designer specialized in fast beamy boats with not to much ballast doing a hell of a boat, relatively narrow and with a big B/D. Definitively Sam Manuard is very good and is one of NA that deserve to be followed closely.

Take a look at this. It is really interesting:

http://www.biehlmarin.com/mediapool/3/35906/data/Seascape_27/2x-stage2_ver6.pdf

The boat costs 56 500 euros, including French Vat and if you want 5 sails, an engine and a trailer, you can add about more 16 000 euros. A lot of fun for the money;)

....
 
#2,946 ·
Re: Seascape 27

If the speed performance of the Pogo 50 did not impress me on the Voile and Voiliers magazine test, the ones obtained with the Seascape 27 test did:eek:

Well, have a look:

6.6K speed with 10k wind, close to the wind.

8.6K speed with 10k wind, at 120º

11.1K speed with 12k wind at 120º


They had called it on the article: The Slovenia Rocket:D.

This boat, a bit less longer than the Pogo 8.5 represents the other contemporary way (without a big beam) designers are following to get very fast boats.

Let's compare some numbers:

Lenght: P-8.50 S-7.99 Beam: P-3.60 S-2.54 weight: P-2800kg S-1250kg Draft: P-1,75 S-0.85/1.95m

B/D: P-30% S-48%

I have no doubts that the Pogo is a much seaworthy offshore boat, made to cross oceans and easier to sail while the Seascape is a Coastal small cruiser, but in what regards speed and fun, I guess the Seascape is on another world:D

They say about the project guidelines:

Seascape 27 offers a truly unique experience: the comfort of a 4-berth sailing boat with a separate wet room and toilet compartment, perfect for family cruising, as well as for inshore and offshore regattas, thanks to her superior sailing performance, versatility and easy handling. The boat is ready for sailing or transport in an hour or so, whereas her dimensions allow for trailer or shipping container transportation. Both innovations ensure the owner the benefits of easy accessibility to diverse cruising locations without the costs associated with year-round berthing....

The .. biggest problem that we noticed during our extensive involvement in yacht racing is: assembling a crew larger than 3-4 people is a real pain in the a**, not to mention that it is very difficult to recruit it from the members of our own families.

Therefore both our boats, 18 and 27, are designed to be shorthanded and family friendly. In practice that means that full crew for Seascape 27 in inshore races is 3 or 4, but she can easily sail double handed or solo for navigations or long distance races. Since she is light, the loads on the ropes are relatively low, and her deck gear is generously sized so that everybody can participate

Take a look at this. It is really interesting:

http://www.biehlmarin.com/mediapool/3/35906/data/Seascape_27/2x-stage2_ver6.pdf

The boat costs 56 500 euros, including French Vat and if you want 5 sails, an engine and a trailer, you can add about more 16 000 euros. A lot of fun for the money;)

....


Thanks for posting the Seascape 27. This design has a lot going for it. Fast, trailerable, shipable in a 40ft container, lifting keel all helps to expand your cruising grounds. The price is also attractive. Hopefully they will have one in Duesseldorf.
 
#2,915 ·
Paulo,

Just to clarify a couple of points ....

My objection to torpedo keels is both concern re picking up stray objects and when combined with a fast boat the damage that keel would do to any creature it came into contact with. That is also my concern with fast boats overall. Hit a sunfish e.g at under ten knots and you may scare the hell out of both you and the fish but hopefully the encounter would not be fatal. Hit the same fish at 20 knots with one of those super sharp keels and I'm thinking minced fish.

So I'm not against those keels on performance grounds, nor do I object to lightness in a boat as such. It is simply that to a very large extent I am content with moderate performance and moderate weight if that combines to make for a nice comfortable ride.



That said, as someone who is most often sailing short handed the smaller the gear I have to manage the better and all things considered a lightweight fractionally rigged boat is likely to be easier to handle than a heavy masthead.

I'm thinking that our Malo is somewhere in the middle though more towards heavy than light. I do love the solidity of the thing, the quietness and not so lively movement particularly at anchor though I do sometimes wonder if something a wee bit lighter might be easier to handle without moving to the noise of very lightweight hulls. Newer generation boats from Malo and HR, plus the XC Series and the Swede you posted earlier would all be on my list were we to move up but frankly they are all out of my price range at roughly twice to three times what we paid for our old girl.

cheers

Andrew B
 
#2,916 · (Edited)
Paulo,

Just to clarify a couple of points ....

My objection to torpedo keels is both concern re picking up stray objects and when combined with a fast boat the damage that keel would do to any creature it came into contact with. That is also my concern with fast boats overall. Hit a sunfish e.g at under ten knots and you may scare the hell out of both you and the fish but hopefully the encounter would not be fatal. Hit the same fish at 20 knots with one of those super sharp keels and I'm thinking minced fish.

So I'm not against those keels on performance grounds, nor do I object to lightness in a boat as such. It is simply that to a very large extent I am content with moderate performance and moderate weight if that combines to make for a nice comfortable ride.

That said, as someone who is most often sailing short handed the smaller the gear I have to manage the better and all things considered a lightweight fractionally rigged boat is likely to be easier to handle than a heavy masthead.

I'm thinking that our Malo is somewhere in the middle though more towards heavy than light. I do love the solidity of the thing, the quietness and not so lively movement particularly at anchor though I do sometimes wonder if something a wee bit lighter might be easier to handle without moving to the noise of very lightweight hulls. Newer generation boats from Malo and HR, plus the XC Series and the Swede you posted earlier would all be on my list were we to move up but frankly they are all out of my price range at roughly twice to three times what we paid for our old girl.

cheers

Andrew B
Well, I guessed you thought like that, but I did not resist to a little provocation:D

Regarding hitting sea animals, mainly mammals, I guess that a bulbed keel would make almost as much damage as a torpedo keel at 20k.

I believe that mammals just are not used to have relatively silent boats to arrive so quickly. I don't hear stories of mammals being hit by motor yachts or ships and those are as fast or faster than most sailing boats even very fast ones.

I have no doubt that the mammals know and hear or fell that a sailboat is approaching they just don't are used that with that kind of noise, not typical from a power boat, a sailboat will come so fast. I guess it is a question of time till they get used to fast sailing boats and get out of the way. They are not stupid;)

Regarding catching stuff with the keel I guess you are right. I guess it is a small disadvantage to a gain of many hundreds of kg and a boat less expensive (lead is expensive).

Regards

Paulo
 
#2,917 ·
Weight, sailing fast cruisers and modern design

I cannot resist to post this small "article" that is a kind of introduction to the Seascape 27 presentation. I don't know if this was written by Sam Manuard (the boat designer) even if I have no doubt he thinks this way. Me to;).

Watching the incredible development of offshore racing yachts in the past 20 years, we realized that the gap between custom-made racing and mass production yachts was getting bigger and bigger. Even though some companies finally started following the trend set by the former, by applying chines to the hull and twin rudders on the transom, we believe the gap is far from being closed, as it lies deeper in mentality of the boatbuilders.

Until recently both racing and cruising yachts were too heavy to plane which meant that your boat-speed was defined by the length of the yacht measured on the water line. With other words, longer was by default faster, and better hull shape and lower displacement of the yacht could only help her get to her maximum speed a bit sooner.

The main problem was sailing downwind where yachts quickly ended up with excessive energy generated by their sails which couldn't be transfer to speed due to yacht's inability to plane. This energy was therefore burned as excessive rolling that often ended up in so called "death rolls" which broached or even worse, uncontrollably jibed the yacht.

Consequently, spinnakers were used only by experienced crews, and downwind sailing in strong wind was neither fast, nor safe nor comfortable.
More importantly, such racing yachts were not much different to fast cruisers. Since none of them could plane, heavy wooden furniture didn't make a major difference in performance.

And then the racing boats started to plane.

Industry launched a new term - the racer-cruiser. At their conception, racer-cruisers looked more like racers, while today, with notable exception of J-boats, Pogo Structures, and a few other non-mainstream manufacturers, look more like cruisers with bigger steering wheels and better ergonomics in the cockpit.

Problem of the modern racer-cruisers is that they are weight sensitive. Add 10% displacement and, instead at 15K the yacht will start to plane at only 20 knots of wind. However, this is true only if a gennaker is used.

Not being able to handle big gennakers at high wind speeds, some crews will therefore bestuck at the uncomfortable and slow displacement speeds, even though the hull would allow them to plane.

The modern racer-cruisers should therefore provide their crews all the necessary comfort without bulky visual luxury in interior and exterior.

The main luxury that this kind of a yacht has to offer is her safety, ergonomics and performance close to those of the modern racing yachts, but achievable with a shorthanded crew.

.....
 
#2,918 · (Edited)
"Problem of the modern racer-cruisers is that they are weight sensitive. Add 10% displacement and, instead at 15K the yacht will start to plane at only 20 knots of wind. However, this is true only if a gennaker is used."

First quote that addresses weight sensitiveness in 319 pages or a long time. I wonder if 10% displacement should be a rule of thumb for testing the performance cruisers we so much enjoy to learn about. These boats are generally tested empty. Having said that, what is the ideal payload (persons, gear and consumables) and added displacement (installed equipment) of a cruising couple or family of four, and how it should affect, say, a Dufour 36P (6,400kg), an Elan 350 (5,350kg) or a J111 (4,216kg). Added displacement being equal, will it negatively affect more a lighter boat than a same length heavier boat? Or does it mean the contrary, that saving weight on the boat per-se leaves more "room" for crew, gear, consumables and fixed equipment? Are cruisers throwing away money at lighter boats?

In my boat, I used the one design crew weight limit of 748kg as a guide and have ended up with approx. 1000kg, all-in. This equals (a whopping) 21% of empty displacement. (Ok, I carry too much, but 500 of those kg are in water and batteries!).

So I keep wondering about all these super-performers, especially the recent wide stern shapes for downwind planing and if we should be making an observation on cruising added displacement and how different hull shapes "cope" with it. Just a thought.
 
#2,919 ·
Weight.

Yes, your re right about that. That is why I consider that in what regards performance cruising it makes more sense to buy a bigger boat than a smaller boat, I mean for cruising. If you have a light fast 33 ft with 3000kg, 10% will be 300kg.

If you have a fast 42ft with 6500kg, 10% will be 650kg. You cannot cruise with a 300kg payload, at least extensive cruising but with 650kg, if you travel light it is just possible, specially if you have a watermaker.

Anyway in a boat like the Seascape 27 you can have a hell of a boat to enjoy everyday, day sailing, or racing and a fast boat for cruising, but while cruising and with a boat with a reasonable load the performance will be completely different (in what regards planing), unless we are talking about weekend or camping cruising and that is perfectly possible since the boat has a swing keel and can go anywhere, even be pulled to land.

Regards

Paulo
 
#2,921 · (Edited)
#2,923 · (Edited)
Re: Renewables on board

One of the most interesting aspects in yacht development these days is in electric energy systems. The Acciona 100% Ecopowered Vendee Globe entry is a commendable racing campaign. Check out the power equipment on this vessel!

Energy on board ACCIONA 100% EcoPowered - Vendée Globe 2012-2013 - YouTube
Yes, That is remarkable. I had posted that video some time ago;)

They use the same brand and type of batteries I have installed on my boat, just not so many:D

From all the systems the one I like more is that water generator. I have posted already about that. It is really amazing and can deliver 500w at 8K speed (if I remember correctly). The product is already commercialized in racing and cruising version. It was developed for Transat racers, now it is available for cruisers too;):



Emission de solution from Watt&Sea on Vimeo.



Hydrogenerateur Watt&Sea from Watt&Sea on Vimeo.

http://www.wattandsea.com/en/cruising-hydrogenerator

Regards

Paulo
 
#2,924 ·
Sea

On another thread there is a discussion about if an old sailing ship should or not have sailed on an hurricane, because some say it is safer on the sea.

Guys, stay safe out there. Any sailor that has not a big respect to the sea and is not afraid of bad weather ... is not a good sailor and probably is a bit crazy.

Some images to remind us that the sea is the boss and that we just do what he permits us to do.





 
#2,926 · (Edited)
Salona Yachts/Sydney yachts

Yes!!!

This is a great new and one I had not yet seen on any sailboat magazine!

I love Sydney yachts, they make my style more than the Pogo, but they were very expensive had no European dealer and if they had, any problem with the boat with be dealt not by the factory but by someone that would not give the same kind of warranty in their work and evaluation of the problem.

Not anymore on both counts:

Sydney yacht, the superb GTS 43 and 37, Ker designed boats, are going to be made in Europe by Salona:D:D:D

I don't know the therms of the deal but it should be a strong one since they are going to sell the boat for less money due to the use of industrial equipment.

This makes all the sense for both brands (I don't know if Salona had bought a share of Sydney yacht or not): Sydney will be able to sell less expensive boats in Europe and will have the benefice of Salona already installed dealership and Salona will pass to offer fast cruising boats and super fast cruising boats:D I mean boats that will be able to win in compensated and real time almost every race.

I think this have probably to do with Ker himself that has been working, in what regards production boats, mainly with these two brands.

Just a small press new from Sydney will Salona remained silent but has already in their site the Sydney yachts:

GTS 37 - Salona Yachts
GTS 43 - Salona Yachts

Sydney Yachts, the Australian manufacturer of performance racer / cruisers and AD Boats, builder of Salona Yachts reached an agreement on the production and distribution of Sydney Yachts.

As a first step, both companies agreed to enter into a global production and distribution contract. This agreement enables a selected group of Salona dealers to represent Sydney Yachts and their new GTS range. The latest model of Sydney Yachts is the GTS43....

"We are very proud to present this Australian icon to our dealers and performance orientated clients. The unique Sydney Yacht brand will continue to develop successfully under our multi-brand strategy with the new GTS37 to be presented soon."

" We see this cooperation as a natural progression of our very successful Salona Brand of cruiser racers and believe it will offer our customers more choice in the performance yacht market. Sydney Yachts will retain its own identity and operational independence", said Krešimir, director of AD Boats.

Sydney Yachts will now produce its yachts closer to their main markets and will benefit from AD Boat's strong dealer and service network.
"In AD Boats, a well-established manufacturer of sailing yachts in Europe known for Salona Yachts, we have found an ideal strategic partner who shares our values of customer focus, innovation, quality, and customer service."...

"The path is clear for a bright future together. This cooperation will enable us to significantly strengthen Sydney Yachts and further expand Sydney Yachts product portfolio with fascinating new performing yachts", said Darren Williams, managing director of Sydney Yachts.

This cooperation allows Sydney Yachts to deliver custom build quality for a production price. Sydney Yachts will be competitive with all known European production yards on price but with the advantage of our many years of experience in the development of performance racer cruisers for the tough Australian conditions.



This is am older model and it would nor be produced by Salona, at least right now, but it will give the idea about the interior that is a bit Pogo like but with doors:D

 
#2,928 · (Edited)
Re: Bavaria Vision 46 Review

Paulo,

I believe you were talking a bit about the new line from Bavaria. Here's a new review on youtube i found today (from yachting world). Enjoy!

Bavaria Vision 46 - YouTube
Thanks for posting it:). I have posted already about this boat and it seems that Toby Hodges is reading what I post:D. I am kidding off course, but he says about the boat the same things I had said and confirm some others that I suspected, in what regards sailing. It is true that I would prefer a bit more B/D ratio but it seems that even like that the boat sails very well.

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/boat-...341-interesting-sailboats-185.html#post794687

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/boat-...341-interesting-sailboats-213.html#post819559

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/boat-...341-interesting-sailboats-243.html#post852168

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/boat-...341-interesting-sailboats-288.html#post879417

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/boat-...341-interesting-sailboats-291.html#post888902

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/boat-...341-interesting-sailboats-297.html#post903214

I had not been inside the boat yet but by the photos and designs the boat appeared to have excellent ergonomics, inside and outside and be different in what regards other deck saloons that are that way to have a king's aft bedroom and have worse ergonomics outside on account of that.

It is not the case with this one that also provides 4 winches, 2 in each side of cockpit at easy reaching from the wheel when the competition only provides two, making necessary to take the main sail out of the winch, or the genoa to use it.

It is not shown on the boat test but another interesting particularity is that it has a large locker one one of the sides of the boat (the boat comes standard only with one cabin on the back). Contrary to other DS boats this one is a better boat to live aboard and a better sailing boat in a sense that its ergonomics are better, it has a better and bigger storage space and it sails at least as well as the others, namely the Jeanneau DS that is a good sailing boat.

Lots of details that point out this boat was made to be out of the marina and that includes not only the big storage spaces but also very good holding points.

Regards

Paulo
 
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