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post #721 of 6763 Old 02-18-2011
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Azuree 33

Hello everyone,

I have been following for quite some time, but do excuse me as it is my first post.

I am thinking of purchasing an Azuree 33. Listed as Boat of the Year at the Genoa Boatshow in 2010.

I am very curious to find out what your thoughts are on this boat.

Many thanks and best regards,
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post #722 of 6763 Old 02-18-2011
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Kewl!

A day for many newbie/lurkers to come out of the wood work! Gotta luv it!

Marty

She drives me boat,
I drives me dinghy!
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post #723 of 6763 Old 02-19-2011
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Yes Paulo, I am Flemish!
Although for the time being -8 months now without a new government- I prefer to see myself as a European citizen... But this is of course outside the subject of this thread.

You are also absolutely right about the Pogo 10.50 being quite slow when motoring. With 18 hp for 3.600 kg the power should be sufficient, I think the wet surface of the hull can be a reason. Being very light, there is also little inertia in a seaway.
I suspect this will not be different with the 12.50 (30 hp for 5.500 kg) which is also a very light, beamy boat with a flat hull aft.
But on the other hand, with a Pogo one is supposed to hoist the sails with as little as 4 knts of wind...

Best regards,

Eric
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post #724 of 6763 Old 02-19-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricKLYC View Post
Yes Paulo, I am Flemish!
Although for the time being -8 months now without a new government- I prefer to see myself as a European citizen... But this is of course outside the subject of this thread.

You are also absolutely right about the Pogo 10.50 being quite slow when motoring. With 18 hp for 3.600 kg the power should be sufficient, I think the wet surface of the hull can be a reason. Being very light, there is also little inertia in a seaway.
I suspect this will not be different with the 12.50 (30 hp for 5.500 kg) which is also a very light, beamy boat with a flat hull aft.
But on the other hand, with a Pogo one is supposed to hoist the sails with as little as 4 knts of wind...

Best regards,

Eric
Eric,
Thanks for the first hand info here. So you went for the 12.50? I assume you rented the Viniloc 10.50?

Any thoughts on the upside between a 12.50 and 10.50 which made the difference for you? I'm considering the 10.50 with the idea of double handing with 2 children for extended cruising and then a few long weekends/weeks with 4-5 adults. Ultimately single handing and transquadra (but 2). I've found 35 feet is about the max I'd want if I have to deal with things alone and from your manoeuves feedback, it sounds like the added size, draft, weight could be a barrier for me.

With the keel up you need to keep 2+ kts of speed to maintain trajectory and control or can you drop it down to 1-1.5 kts?

Thanks again.
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post #725 of 6763 Old 02-19-2011 Thread Starter
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Azuree 33

Quote:
Originally Posted by panthene View Post
Hello everyone,

I have been following for quite some time, but do excuse me as it is my first post.

I am thinking of purchasing an Azuree 33. Listed as Boat of the Year at the Genoa Boatshow in 2010.

I am very curious to find out what your thoughts are on this boat.

Many thanks and best regards,
Hi there, welcome to the thread

I have mixed feelings about the Azuree 33. It is an interesting boat, no doubt and I find it more balanced than the 40. It is a fast boat that has an outstanding cruising interior (long galley version) with a very big galley for a 33ft, and a really impressive one in a fast boat. If they propose as an option a supplementary water deposit, it would be a boat with a big cruising range.

It is a boat with two big rudders, very stable downwind, fast and with a relatively good pointing ability. On the Solovela boat test they say that it is a nervous boat close to the wind, but that it is expected in this kind of hull, with a big sail area. You have to have a good hand on the wheel and have a hand on the sail controls, to let it go if necessary. That is also the case with the Elan 350, but for what they say, in a lesser extent.

This boat can plane downwind and as all the boats that are designed to do that should not carry much load and be light. Regarding that, the Cruising version weights 5250kg and that seems a lot. The Elan 350, a bigger boat, weights only 5350kg. If you are going to buy one of those consider buying the fast cruiser that weights 4980kg. It will make a difference downwind and they came with a reasonable draft (2.1M).

I have already said that I like the interior that is very well designed and that seems to be better finished than the one from the Elan 350 but , like on the 40, I don't like that high cabin. I don't understand the need. Looking at the interior we can see that there is more than enough standing weight. I can understand that in a slow cruising sailboat the designer pushes a bit the envelope towards higher interiors and plenty of space, but on a fast boat? It makes no sense to me. Makes the boat ugly even if in a lesser extent than the 40.

And then you have the price. This boat costs about the same as the Elan 350 and I don't think it is a match. The Elan 350, a bigger boat will be faster and in my opinion, nicer. It remains the interior that in this boat seems to be very good and cozy...but again, the one from the 350 is bigger.

Don't take me wrong, the Azuree 33 is an interesting boat, what happens is that the Elan 350 is really an outstanding boat and a boat that will be difficult to match.

On the site they have a very good virtual visit :

Azuree

And Solovela has made a nice video when they tested the boat:
















Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 10-23-2013 at 12:02 PM.
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post #726 of 6763 Old 02-19-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bb74 View Post
Eric,
Thanks for the first hand info here. So you went for the 12.50? I assume you rented the Viniloc 10.50?

Any thoughts on the upside between a 12.50 and 10.50 which made the difference for you? I'm considering the 10.50 with the idea of double handing with 2 children for extended cruising and then a few long weekends/weeks with 4-5 adults. Ultimately single handing and transquadra (but 2). I've found 35 feet is about the max I'd want if I have to deal with things alone and from your manoeuves feedback, it sounds like the added size, draft, weight could be a barrier for me.

With the keel up you need to keep 2+ kts of speed to maintain trajectory and control or can you drop it down to 1-1.5 kts?

Thanks again.
Yes, it was indeed the Viniloc we sailed last summer.

What made the main difference for us is that the 10.50 did not give us the required standing headroom, my sons and myself being quite tall (over 1m90). We also felt the boat was a bit crowded with the four of us, especially if we want to cruise for longer periods of time.
As stated in this thread before, the sailing is just exhilarating once you can bear down a little, but we sometimes felt we would have done even better with less load.

The 12.50 is of course much bigger, especially inside, and it will certainly be a bit more forgiving when loading 4 or more adults and all the gear for a longer cruise.

We did not sail the 12.50 since it was due for the boat show in La Rochelle. But everything we heard and read seems to confirm that she is just as easy to sail as the 10.50. Which means: very easy.

For single or short handed sailing we think the cockpit of the 12.50 may be better. The steering position is more forward, so you can hide behind the full size hood. We also feel the position of the winches is more ergonomic and better within reach of the helmsman.

But let there be no doubt, we are very enthousiastic about the 10.50 and if it were not for the extra (head-) room, we would certainly have saved ourselves the extra cost for the 12.50.

The directional stability when motoring is even better with the keel up than down, also at very low speed. Turning is the problem and the foil in horizontal position is also much less efficient to withstand windage on this very lightweight hull. We hope the heavier 12.50 will do al little better, but since this might be wishful thinking we added a bow thruster on the option list.
Onder other hand, the 10.50 can be pushed off almost like a dinghy!

In port, I think none of these fast yachts does well, easily planing cruisers with twin rudders are probably all quite challenging. But do they sail fast!

Best regards,

Eric

Last edited by EricKLYC; 02-19-2011 at 01:50 PM.
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post #727 of 6763 Old 02-19-2011 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricKLYC View Post
...

The 12.50 is of course much bigger, especially inside, and it will certainly be a bit more forgiving when loading 4 or more adults and all the gear for a longer cruise.

We did not sail the 12.50 since it was due for the boat show in La Rochelle. But everything we heard and read seems to confirm that she is just as easy to sail as the 10.50. Which means: very easy.
...
The directional stability when motoring is even better with the keel up than down, also at very low speed. Turning is the problem and the foil in horizontal position is also much less efficient to whitstand windage on this very lightweight hull. ...
BB74, I think Eric is right. I would expect that the major difference would be on the load that the boat can carry without affecting too much the performance. The 12.50 can probably carry almost the double of the load the 10.50 can carry. The extra boat mass will make it probably a little less nervous than the 10.50.

Regarding directional stability, when I have tested the Opium 39, the first thing the guy that went with me has done, still in the marina, was to lower the keel. It seemed odd to me and I asked why? He told me that the boat was very hard to steer with the keel up. It seems that the problem came with the territory (two rudders, swinging keel, large transom boats). I would not have many hopes that with the 12.50 it would be any better.

Regards

Paulo
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post #728 of 6763 Old 02-19-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricKLYC View Post
Yes, it was indeed the Viniloc we sailed last summer.

What made the main difference for us is that the 10.50 dit not give us the required standing headroom, my sons and myself being quite tall (over 1m90). We also felt the boat was a bit crowded with the four of us, especially if we want to cruise for longer periods of time.
As stated in this thread before, the sailing is just exhilarating once you can bear down a little, but we sometimes felt we would have done even better with less load.

The 12.50 is of course much bigger, especially inside, and it will certainly be a bit more forgiving when loading 4 or more adults and all the gear for a longer cruise.

We did not sail the 12.50 since it was due for the boat show in La Rochelle. But everything we heard and read seems to confirm that she is just as easy to sail as the 10.50. Which means: very easy.

For single or short handed sailing we think the cockpit of the 12.50 may be better. The steering position is more forward, so you can hide behind the full size hood. We also feel the position of the winches is more ergonomic and better within reach of the helmsman.

But let there be no doubt, we are very enthousiastic about the 10.50 and if it were not for the extra (head-) room, we would certainly have saved ourselves the extra cost for the 12.50.

The directional stability when motoring is even better with the keel up than down, also at very low speed. Turning is the problem and the foil in horizontal position is also much less efficient to whitstand windage on this very lightweight hull. We hope the heavier 12.50 will do al little better, but since this might be wishful thinking we added a bow thruster on the option list.
Onder other hand, the 10.50 can be fenced off almost like a dinghy!

In port, I think none of these fast, easily planing cruisers with twin rudders are all quite challenging. But do they sail fast!

Best regards,

Eric
Thanks for the feedback Eric. I also prefer the layout of the 12.50 in the cockpit (with the exception of the hale-bas rigging) but having been on a 10.50, it's manageable enough alone in my opinion. I've sailed a 8.50 and am looking at a fall rental of the Viniloc boat to give the 10.50 a spin.

Good point on the weight of the 10.50 and the windage issue with the keel up. My "lake" boat is an Open 5.00 and on a much smaller scale I know exactly what you mean, it can be trying in strong crosswinds and tight berths!!

I'm sure you will be counting the days to April 2012. The 12.50 is a beautiful boat and I'm envious!
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post #729 of 6763 Old 02-19-2011 Thread Starter
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On design - Italian beautiful boats

The Azuree is an Italian boat...and I have been saying that I don't find it beautiful. I have not been posting much about Italian boats. You guys could even think that I don't like Italian boats or that I find them ugly.

Someone had said about this thread that it was full of beautiful boats that he could never had. Well, that's what happens with me regarding Italian sailing boats. They are generally expensive and very beautiful, almost always designed for fast cruising and great sailing performance. They should have already a place on this thread if their price didn't piss me so much. Well, not really the price, that is really what costs to built them, but the fact taht I would never own one

Let's rectify that with some images that will certainly impress you guys. At least they impress me: Ferraris, I tell you







































Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 10-23-2013 at 12:03 PM.
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post #730 of 6763 Old 02-19-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
They never had a lifting keel, always a swinging keel or a fixed keel. That one has the fixed keel that has a 2.13 draft. The one I had sailed had a swing keel and the interior is not very different.
So are such Opium 39 drawings as shown here (see "Silhouette")
Voiles et Voiliers - Fiche Bateau - OPIUM 39
just bad communication?

Ulf
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