Interesting Sailboats - Page 74 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Boat Review and Purchase Forum
 Not a Member? 


Like Tree1262Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #731  
Old 02-19-2011
PCP's Avatar
PCP PCP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal, West Coast
Posts: 16,160
Thanks: 21
Thanked 95 Times in 79 Posts
Rep Power: 10
PCP will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by myocean View Post
So are such Opium 39 drawings as shown here (see "Silhouette")
Voiles et Voiliers - Fiche Bateau - OPIUM 39
just bad communication?

Ulf
No, it seems that you are right and that my memoir is not what it used to be

I never saw one with the lifting keel. They were pretty more expensive. That's why they probably changed for a swinging keel.

Regards

Paulo
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #732  
Old 02-19-2011
PCP's Avatar
PCP PCP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal, West Coast
Posts: 16,160
Thanks: 21
Thanked 95 Times in 79 Posts
Rep Power: 10
PCP will become famous soon enough
Hei Ulf, found out the old page from Opium 39. It is still on line, the one from the time Opium was made by Alize. Now Opium is still a very modern boat, some years back it was just revolutionary

http://www.opium39.com/french.html

I have picked up the photos regarding the lifting keel and one of them is the one that was on that add that you have posted. The interior is not very bad, taking into consideration the lifting keel, but now with a swing keel it is almost "normal".







Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #733  
Old 02-20-2011
PCP's Avatar
PCP PCP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal, West Coast
Posts: 16,160
Thanks: 21
Thanked 95 Times in 79 Posts
Rep Power: 10
PCP will become famous soon enough
Jpk 10.10

Le Jury that have chosen this year European boat of the year said:

The panel of judges assessed performance, comfort, construction quality, price -performance ratio, design and the unique selling criteria of each candidate. 'Performance levels were incredibly high this year. This made our decision very difficult in some cases,' said YACHT editor-in-chief Jochen Rieker, summarizing the current results. 'We were also impressed with the level of innovation shown by the boat builders and by their readiness to adapt elements from the regatta scene, for example,' added the yachting expert.

I think they are talking mostly about the choice for the Performance Cruiser. There was three truly great boats on that category, each of them deserving would have won, in a normal year. It is a pity that they had to compete in the same year against each other:

I am talking about the First 30, the Elan 350 and the JPk 10.10.

Take a look at the comments of the Swiss Jury:

Elan 350
The category of the performance cruiser was the most exciting this year. At the end, the Elan 350 won, because she has the best chances on the market. She combines classy sailing-performance with the comfort-needs of a non-professional crew.


It gives you a hint that the election was not easy and also that personally, if it was not for the market (price), we would have chosen another boat and I believe that boat would be the JPK 10.10, probably the fastest of all the boats involved. The boat is almost new and is already winning some major international races that were dominated by the A35, that is an incredible fast boat.

Compared with the Elan 350 the JPK is less of a cruiser and more of a racer. That does not mean that the JPK 10.10 is not a cruising boat and cannot be used for cruising. It can, but its interior and storage spaces are just not as good as on the Elan 350, that is, of course, a bigger boat.

So let's have a look at the JPK 10.10:




















Some speed numbers taken from the Yacht magazine test sail:

40ºTW with 15K wind = 7.0 60ºTW with 15K wind = 7.2K 90ºTW with 15K wind = 7.2K

120ºTW with 15K wind (with spy) = 7.8K 150ºTW with 15K wind (with spy) = 6.6K

These are impressive results, specially close to the wind.

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 10-23-2013 at 12:05 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #734  
Old 02-20-2011
Faster's Avatar
Just another Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: New Westminster, BC
Posts: 14,604
Thanks: 67
Thanked 178 Times in 174 Posts
Rep Power: 10
Faster has a spectacular aura about Faster has a spectacular aura about Faster has a spectacular aura about
I like it! I could even sell my wife on the cockpit, if only the interior wasn't so austere..... looks like a retractable sprit is an option?
__________________
Ron

1984 Fast/Nicholson 345 "FastForward"

".. there is much you could do at sea with common sense.. and very little you could do without it.."
Capt G E Ericson (from "The Cruel Sea" by Nicholas Monsarrat)
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #735  
Old 02-20-2011
PCP's Avatar
PCP PCP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal, West Coast
Posts: 16,160
Thanks: 21
Thanked 95 Times in 79 Posts
Rep Power: 10
PCP will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faster View Post
I like it! I could even sell my wife on the cockpit, if only the interior wasn't so austere..... looks like a retractable sprit is an option?
Hei Faster, with this one you would be the Fastest

About the Sprit, the place for it is there so I am sure you can mount one. This boat (the one you see on the photos) is maximized for IRC.

If you want one maximized for Ocean racing (I am sure this one is going to be one of the Favorites on the next Transquadra) Kleber will mount a bulb on that keel and a long sprit, for maximizing righting moment and downwind speed ride.

Regards

Paulo
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #736  
Old 02-20-2011
PCP's Avatar
PCP PCP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal, West Coast
Posts: 16,160
Thanks: 21
Thanked 95 Times in 79 Posts
Rep Power: 10
PCP will become famous soon enough
JPK 10.10 movies

Nice JPK 1010 video(put it in HD-720p):



This one is from a JPK 960, an older and slower boat. You can imagine how it would be with the 1010


sailing yacht charter JPK 9,60 (2 cab)

Last edited by PCP; 10-23-2013 at 12:05 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #737  
Old 02-20-2011
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 260
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 6
bb74 is on a distinguished road
JPK knows how to make aboat for sure. The design works very well for compensated time racing as well as first to cross the line racing. Very sleek design. The 9.60 did have a couple of teething pains with the keel bolts but those were addressed by the shipyard and plans were updated.

The 10.10 is probably about 150K€ fitted, maybe another 10 depending upon the sails you want. That's a big premium on the First 30 or SF3200 for teh same size boat. It will certainly be better built, "stronger", and faster.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #738  
Old 02-20-2011
EricKLYC's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Antwerp, Belgium
Posts: 468
Thanks: 16
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Rep Power: 4
EricKLYC is on a distinguished road
Pogomania

Quote:
Originally Posted by bb74 View Post
Thanks for the feedback Eric. I also prefer the layout of the 12.50 in the cockpit (with the exception of the hale-bas rigging) but having been on a 10.50, it's manageable enough alone in my opinion. I've sailed a 8.50 and am looking at a fall rental of the Viniloc boat to give the 10.50 a spin.

Good point on the weight of the 10.50 and the windage issue with the keel up. My "lake" boat is an Open 5.00 and on a much smaller scale I know exactly what you mean, it can be trying in strong crosswinds and tight berths!!

I'm sure you will be counting the days to April 2012. The 12.50 is a beautiful boat and I'm envious!
The downhaul on the 12.50 is indeed a quite "racy" and unconvenient construction for a cruiser, you are absolutely right about that. The designers wanted to keep the sailplan -and thus the gooseneck- as low as possible, which left no sufficient place for a traditional downhaul.
But as long as the mainsail traveller is in charge, it has no use. This peculiar downhaul will therefore only need to be rigged when going deep downwind, when the apparent wind brings the traveller out of range and the twist in the mainsail becomes excessive.
With this kind of boats, one will then probably already have jibed to keep up the VMG. If not, this downhaul can be rigged in quite comfortable conditions, it will also be much more effective and may even serve as a jibe preventer.

But please make no mistake, also for us the cockpit of the 10.50 worked very well indeed.
Especially the central console aft, which is not only useful for stocking the liferaft, but also provides very secure and comfortable leaning - sitting - holding in the very beamy aft portion of the cockpit. It is also a practical alternative for the now popular so-called German sheeting system, with the main sheet on a winch and within reach of the helmsman. Only take care to watch the sheet when jibing!
And the twin helms make it much easier to move from one steering position to another, especially when berthing.

We will certainly miss this console on the 12.50, where the aftermost and even more beamy part of the cockpit has been kept completely open to accept an inflated dinghy. There isn't even a backstay to hold on to when p... I'm aware that we will not want to be there in any but the most quiet conditions, while on the 10.50 you will always be very secure all the way aft.

Since you have already sailed the 8.50, I trust you will also enjoy your trip on the 10.50. Weather permitting, there probably is no better way to convince your family than by a sunny afternoon anchoring within the Glénans archipel, with the keel up and almost right up the sandy beach. It's only a short sail away from Viniloc's berth in Concarneau.

Since you already got used to tricky berthing with your open 5.00, I very much welcome your tips & tricks!
In my sweetest dreams we have stressless surfes at 15+ kts, but in my worst nightmares I smash our future 12.50 into yachts, pontoons, harbour walls and anything else within close range.

You're quite right, we are counting the days until spring 2012. But it's us who should be envious, since you will be sailing a Pogo again in Brittany long before we do. Enjoy!

Best regards,

Eric
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #739  
Old 02-20-2011
PCP's Avatar
PCP PCP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal, West Coast
Posts: 16,160
Thanks: 21
Thanked 95 Times in 79 Posts
Rep Power: 10
PCP will become famous soon enough
On design Keels and rudders

Some very interesting information about the JPK 1010 that probably is relevant for other similar cases:

They have compared a 1010 in IRC set up (Keel without a bulb and a single rudder) with a 1010 on Ocean Racing configuration, with a bulbed keel and two rudders. Boats in the water at the same time with wind conditions between 13 and 20K.

They have found out that close to the wind the speeds are about the same but over 15/16K the bulbed version, that gives more righting moment, permits to close more on the wind and gives more power with a slightly better speed.

Downwind the speeds are the same but the twin rudders give a safer and easier ride and that with a reduced or solo crew means faster.

With a complete crew, the rating favors the non bulbed keel/ single rudder version. JPK is going to maintain that version, but as with a short crew the twin rudder and the bulbed keel is clearly a better option, they are going to make both versions, according to the boat use.

The difference in rating between the two boats is not big (in 2010 was 1/6000 and it is going to be even more reduced this year).

So now you know the advantages and disadvantages of a single and twin rudder and what solution to chose

The JPK 1010 is a relatively narrow boat (3.39M) and the use of twin or single rudder has nothing to do with the boat being too large for a single rudder to be effective on the water at large angles of heel.

Last edited by PCP; 10-23-2013 at 12:07 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #740  
Old 02-20-2011
EricKLYC's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Antwerp, Belgium
Posts: 468
Thanks: 16
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Rep Power: 4
EricKLYC is on a distinguished road
Pogomania

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
BB74, I think Eric is right. I would expect that the major difference would be on the load that the boat can carry without affecting too much the performance. The 12.50 can probably carry almost the double of the load the 10.50 can carry. The extra boat mass will make it probably a little less nervous than the 10.50.

Regarding directional stability, when I have tested the Opium 39, the first thing the guy that went with me has done, still in the marina, was to lower the keel. It seemed odd to me and I asked why? He told me that the boat was very hard to steer with the keel up. It seems that the problem came with the territory (two rudders, swinging keel, large transom boats). I would not have many hopes that with the 12.50 it would be any better.

Regards

Paulo
I think you're right on top again, Paulo.

With the swinging keel up, you not only get less resistance to windage abeam, you also miss the deepness of the keel as a central turning point. Therefore there is more slipping than turning, which is an issue one needs to get used to.

I certainly will have to, since 3.00m will be quite a lot of draft!
But I think this drawback can be acceptable, considering these boats are first designed for sailing, not for maneuvering.

Best regards,

Eric
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 11 (0 members and 11 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Cruising sailboats for sale welch Cruising & Liveaboard Forum 10 04-25-2012 05:20 PM
THE Yacht Builder List T37Chef Boat Review and Purchase Forum 26 07-08-2011 05:51 AM
Noob wonderings and questions about sailing, life at sail and sailboats Vans General Discussion (sailing related) 49 06-20-2011 12:18 AM
A List of ALL sailboats made with layouts? Myblueheaven Boat Review and Purchase Forum 8 10-08-2010 11:32 AM
Failure to Navigate - interesting post on Panbo Blog & from the NewsReader Mass Bay Sailors 0 12-11-2006 06:15 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:27 AM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012