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  #741  
Old 02-21-2011
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Without sounding too lazy for a Pogo, I have the think the "Dock and Go" solution Beneteau have launched would be great on a wide and shallow hull platform with the keel raised.

I don't know the weight it would add to the saildrive system, probably a few hundred Kg's, ???, but that would give you a pivot point at the bottom of the motor and make the boat very maneuverable.

With the dual rudder, you can't count on prop wash for direction, so I think the key is just maintaining forward motion and than hitting reverse once the final trajectory is set. Practice makes perfect and the good thing is the inertia isn't so bad that you can't slow it down quickly.

It's a trade-off I'd gladly make to be able to approach the beach so closely and get into those holes the larger boats can't access. That's a huge asset (at least in the Med) in the summer-time.
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  #742  
Old 02-21-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricKLYC View Post
T...
Since you already got used to tricky berthing with your open 5.00, I very much welcome your tips & tricks!
In my sweetest dreams we have stressless surfes at 15+ kts, but in my worst nightmares I smash our future 12.50 into yachts, pontoons, harbour walls and anything else within close range.
...
Eric
How about to put the boat on the berth with a partially raised keel? It should improve things.

Regards

Paulo
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  #743  
Old 02-21-2011
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Originally Posted by PCP View Post
How about to put the boat on the berth with a partially raised keel? It should improve things.

Regards

Paulo
This was my thought while working on my boat yesterday. If the keel all the way down is tough to maneuver, along with all the way up, how about playing with the keel up or down in different places to see which might be best for slow speed engine maneuvering?

Marty
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  #744  
Old 02-21-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blt2ski View Post
This was my thought while working on my boat yesterday. If the keel all the way down is tough to maneuver, along with all the way up, how about playing with the keel up or down in different places to see which might be best for slow speed engine maneuvering?

Marty
Technically it can be done Paulo and Marty, since there is an emergency button to stop the lowering or lifting of the keel. On the other hand, there is no indication of the position of the keel during this movement, although experience would certainly give one a good idea. Even if the keel must be swinged up more than half way before getting a draft reduction of 1m, that should already help a lot while still giving a better turning ability.

But as far as I know, the head is only blocked securely in the keelbox when the keel it is fully down. Sailing with a partially lifted keel is e.g. strictly prohibited. But the lateral forces on the keel should be much smaller when slowly maneuvring. So then this may not be such an issue, even when accidently hitting the ground? Which of course should be avoided in all circumstances, especially because the outer skin of the foil is fiberglass...
I will ask Structures this question at the very next occasion and give you feedback!

Best regards,

Eric

Last edited by EricKLYC; 02-21-2011 at 11:49 AM.
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  #745  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bb74 View Post
Without sounding too lazy for a Pogo, I have the think the "Dock and Go" solution Beneteau have launched would be great on a wide and shallow hull platform with the keel raised.

I don't know the weight it would add to the saildrive system, probably a few hundred Kg's, ???, but that would give you a pivot point at the bottom of the motor and make the boat very maneuverable.

With the dual rudder, you can't count on prop wash for direction, so I think the key is just maintaining forward motion and than hitting reverse once the final trajectory is set. Practice makes perfect and the good thing is the inertia isn't so bad that you can't slow it down quickly.

It's a trade-off I'd gladly make to be able to approach the beach so closely and get into those holes the larger boats can't access. That's a huge asset (at least in the Med) in the summer-time.
The "Dock and Go" system looks very smart indeed. I don't know what the extra weight would be and only time will tell if this quite elaborated technology will also prove to be reliable on the long term.

Meanwhile, as in sailing, practise will certainly help us out with docking. Ours will certainly start with your good advise: sufficient speed to stay in control, before stopping off and manually take care of the details.

A very deep centre of gravity when sailing, plus the ability to reach all but the shallowest places, probably don't come without a price. A lot of exercise and some extra fenders?

Best regards,

Eric
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  #746  
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Este 40 movie

Hey Guys, do you know the Italian Pogo? I mean the Este 40?

4500kg of weight, 1600Kg of ballast on a 3m deep bulb (that can be raised to 1.6M) and 115M2 of sail will make it a very fast boat.

The interiors are a bit crude, but I would have no problem in upgrading them in a very light, effective and inexpensive way. The layout is interesting...and the boat has doors

Take a look:















Scheda tecnica barca: Este Class 40

http://www2.solovela.net/immagini/pd...9_Este40_I.pdf



Last edited by PCP; 10-23-2013 at 12:08 PM.
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  #747  
Old 02-22-2011
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[QUOTE=PCP;700623]Hey Guys, do you know the Italian Pogo? I mean the Este 40?

4500kg of weight, 1600Kg of ballast on a 3m deep bulb (that can be raised to 1.6M) and 115M2 of sail will make it a very fast boat.

The interiors are a bit crude, but I would have no problem in upgrading them in a very light, effective and inexpensive way. The layout is interesting...and the boat has doors

Take a look:

That boat reminds me of my old Alfa Romeo. Looks sexy on the outside but once you have to live with it is is a huge PIA...

I'm sure it goes well, but the interior layout is a mess and the boat is really a race boat with some fixtures as opposed to a racer/cruiser. Just my opinion of course and I'd still love to sail one for a long weekend.
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  #748  
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[QUOTE=bb74;700928]
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Hey Guys, do you know the Italian Pogo? I mean the Este 40?

4500kg of weight, 1600Kg of ballast on a 3m deep bulb (that can be raised to 1.6M) and 115M2 of sail will make it a very fast boat.

The interiors are a bit crude, but I would have no problem in upgrading them in a very light, effective and inexpensive way. The layout is interesting...and the boat has doors

Take a look:

That boat reminds me of my old Alfa Romeo. Looks sexy on the outside but once you have to live with it is is a huge PIA...

I'm sure it goes well, but the interior layout is a mess and the boat is really a race boat with some fixtures as opposed to a racer/cruiser. Just my opinion of course and I'd still love to sail one for a long weekend.
Especially from astern, this Este 40 could easily be mistaken for a Pogo 40, both clearly designed to take maximum advantage of the class 40 box rule. And the figures certainly are impressive!

But I also agree that the interior does not look convincing and probably would need a rebuild to make it work, either for racing or cruising. It seems as if they had a big struggle to get rid of the keelbox and I'm shure the Alfa Romeo was much more stylish.
Having not raised the topsides a little, the way Structures did when they designed the 12.50 out of the 40S2 hull, they end up with this very high coachroof, which is also not my taste.

But no doubt this yacht will be one of the very fastest 40 footers on the market. So I'd be happy to join for a short sail!

Regards,

Eric
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Este 40 cruising 40class racer

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricKLYC View Post

Especially from astern, this Este 40 could easily be mistaken for a Pogo 40, both clearly designed to take maximum advantage of the class 40 box rule. And the figures certainly are impressive!

But I also agree that the interior does not look convincing and probably would need a rebuild to make it work, either for racing or cruising. It seems as if they had a big struggle to get rid of the keelbox and I'm shure the Alfa Romeo was much more stylish.
Having not raised the topsides a little, the way Structures did when they designed the 12.50 out of the 40S2 hull, they end up with this very high coachroof, which is also not my taste.

But no doubt this yacht will be one of the very fastest 40 footers on the market. So I'd be happy to join for a short sail!

Regards,

Eric
Not as bad as you paint it. Fact is that this boat offers 3 cabins with good privacy, a good sea galley (they have not photos but it is described as so on the test from Solo Vela), a chart table were it should be, at the center of the boat, with the engine below the seat on a central position and a spacious saloon.

I would have preferred an open space (saloon/Galley) but I could live better with this solution than with a solution without doors, like on the Pogo. Sure, if that boat is to be used for a couple it would be alright, but for two couples, or for one with grown up kids? And that would be my case.

Yes, BB74 is right. This is a race boat, but also one that has everything needed to cruise (with privacy) and a reduced draft. Contrary to the Pogo 12.50 the Este 40 is a boat that can race on the 40class without being ridiculous (was won already some races). It's a true dual purpose Ocean fast boat.

Call me crazy but if they offer me the two boats to chose I would have taken the Este 40. I wouldn't resist to race the boat occasionally and cruise it most of the time and with a boat like that...I guess that I would cruise to far away places

Of course, all good things come with a price and the one for this baby is substantially bigger that the one for the Pogo.





Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 10-23-2013 at 12:10 PM.
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  #750  
Old 02-23-2011
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Originally Posted by EricKLYC View Post
Having signed the contract in september 2010, we now look forward to a handover in april ... 2012.
Dear Eric,
I would be interested to know how are the payment conditions for such a deal.
How much pre-payment is requested if the lead time is so long and when has the full sum to be paid?
Best Regards,
Ulf
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