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  #761  
Old 02-25-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slap View Post
Melrna has posted a review of the Jeanneau 409 in the "2011 Miami Boatshow" thread. A must read for anyone interested in one.

2011 Miami Boat Show
Hi Slap,

Take a look here:

2011 Miami Boat Show

I had commented the Melrna post on the Jeanneau 409.

Regards

Paulo
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  #762  
Old 02-27-2011
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Jeanneau SO 409, 135nm boat test





Last edition of Voile & voiliers has a nice test sail on the Jeanneau 409. A delivery passage between the coast of Spain and the Balearic Islands, with winds from 0 to 30K and seas from calm to stormy.

On the boat, the tester and Erik Stromberg. I believe this American that works for Jeanneau should be credited with a large part of the boat success. Many times there are a big hole between the designer and the guys that produce the boat. Not in this case, Erik has worked on the boat rigging in close liaison with the designer and has sailed extensively the boat trying to improve it. He is a sailor that likes to sail and you can feel it on the boat. I have talked to him in Paris and I was impressed with is knowledge but also with is oppen personality and modesty. A very nice guy

I am not going to talk about the boat interior, design and quality, that has been vastly addressed and anyway you can form easily your opinion in any boat show. I am only referring here to its sail performance. In this case it is specially interesting because the boat tested was the performance rig version.

The boat is designed to be completely controlled from the helm. Only one winch there at each whell), but also three blocks that permits to change the sheet that is in the winch. German sheeting brings the boom control there also. The boat can come with a self-taking jib.

The tester says about this (translated):

" All the work and tunning can be done from the wheel, but you have to change habits and adapt to the new set up, but we want to adapt because the Jeanneau 409 is a real pleasure at the wheel. The position is comfortable and we have a very good foot support. It has not the precision of a racer but the boat passes softly the short med waves and the powerful hull is easily controlled".

And about sailing performance:

"Even with short waves, going upwind, with gusty winds of 25/30K the boat goes safely without fearing anything at 8/9K, genoa rolled to 2/3 and with 2 reefs on the main".

Later, approaching Palma de Maiorca they can open the sails a bit and:

"With 15k wind we have fun going at 10k and sometimes over (10.9). Who says that a family cruiser has to be slow?".

They have observed this speeds:

14ktw 45º = 8k speed

15ktw 70º = 9K

19Ktw 150º = 10.6K


Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 10-23-2013 at 12:14 PM.
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  #763  
Old 03-02-2011
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Amazing thread!!! Seriously planning a three year "sabbatical" cruising the Med, crossing the pond at the appropriate times and where ever else I may wish to go. My experience is somewhat limited at the moment, but I will be joined by a rotating group of friends with more than adequate skills and I'm sure my own sailing prowess will be greatly advanced with time so a yacht that is designed for single handing is paramount. My question is the following- Of these which is the wisest choice?(Paulo,your input would be fantastic!) Akilaria 950, Pogo 10.50, Sunfast 3200 and my fav, Elan 350. Speed, safety, living aboard for months at a time and the ability to be sailed single handed or with a small crew are of the most important factors. Budget is around $200k US, setting sail by early summer of next year. Thank you in advance.
Best Regards,
Todd
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  #764  
Old 03-02-2011
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Originally Posted by TJMAC View Post
Amazing thread!!! Seriously planning a three year "sabbatical" cruising the Med, crossing the pond at the appropriate times and where ever else I may wish to go. My experience is somewhat limited at the moment, but I will be joined by a rotating group of friends with more than adequate skills and I'm sure my own sailing prowess will be greatly advanced with time so a yacht that is designed for single handing is paramount. My question is the following- Of these which is the wisest choice?(Paulo,your input would be fantastic!) Akilaria 950, Pogo 10.50, Sunfast 3200 and my fav, Elan 350. Speed, safety, living aboard for months at a time and the ability to be sailed single handed or with a small crew are of the most important factors. Budget is around $200k US, setting sail by early summer of next year. Thank you in advance.
Best Regards,
Todd
Welcome Todd and thanks for your kind words.

Those are all great and fast boats but also very different. The Akilaria 950 is the one to have for racing. It has a very spartan interior and if you put all the things you need for cruising it is going to be expensive.

Akilaria 9.50 : fiche technique et caractéristiques détaillées

The Pogo 10.50 is very interesting but it is also expensive and has a long waiting list. It is a bit less spartan than the Akilaria.

The Sun fast 3200 is also spartan and between it and the Elan 350 I would chose the Elan.

The Elan 350 has a great cruising interior and it is not as expensive. I would say that is the most wise choice, but boats and sailing are a passion and not a rational thing .

If I understand correctly you want to cruise, have fun while sailing, have some friends on board as a crew, or sail solo sometimes and have the minimum that is needed to cruise with some comfort. Not a wife and kids thing, and the interior should be functional comfortable but not "nice"? You are not interested in serious racing and ratings. Just want a really fast seaworthy and fun boat capable of cruising on the Med and cross the pond?

Well, I would chose a really fast cruiser that is not competitive anymore at top level racing (and that's why you can have them for not too much money) but that would be faster and less expensive that any of those boats. I would use the rest of the money to prepare the boat for cruising and to spend while cruising. When you want to sell the boat you would also lose less money than with a new boat.

I would look at the "old" generation of A40. They are better rigged for solo sailing than the new ones. Take a look at the huge difference in prices between old generation A40 and the new ones. That's because the new ones are more competitive for racing, not because there is a big difference between the boats

Archambault boats for sale - New and Used Archambault for sale













Segelschule Weber Berlin. Die sportliche Segelschule Berlin

Archambault 40 - New Archambault yachts for sale

A 40 ARCHAMBAULT | Veleiros de ocasião

ARCHAMBAULT 40 | Veleiros de ocasião

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 03-02-2011 at 02:05 PM.
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  #765  
Old 03-02-2011
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beautiful
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  #766  
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Paulo, you don't disappoint! You were right in your assumptions of what I'm looking for nearly across the board. I would say that I am very partial to twin rudders and prefer a tiller( or twins), but could more than live with the Elan 350 set up. When you stated adding a large cost to refit the Akilaria, what else would be required other than what is considered "sail away ready"(electronics included)? I agree it is Spartan, but although I have yet to sail one, it looks pretty well suited to 2 or 3 adults for extended time aboard. I agree on the Pogo 10.50 -beautiful but a bit of a white elephant. The A40 is very nice, but I question if it may be a bit too large? From your previous posts, I see that you are a big fan of the Elan 350 as well. I have seen more than a few listed as "sail away ready" for sub $200k, but again is that lacking in necessary equipment? Essentially what I'm asking is what would you look for if you were in your early 30's, single without children and had 2 or 3 years to sail as much as you wish where ever you wish? Thank you!
Best Regards,
Todd
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  #767  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TJMAC View Post
Paulo, you don't disappoint! You were right in your assumptions of what I'm looking for nearly across the board. I would say that I am very partial to twin rudders and prefer a tiller( or twins), but could more than live with the Elan 350 set up. When you stated adding a large cost to refit the Akilaria, what else would be required other than what is considered "sail away ready"(electronics included)? I agree it is Spartan, but although I have yet to sail one, it looks pretty well suited to 2 or 3 adults for extended time aboard. I agree on the Pogo 10.50 -beautiful but a bit of a white elephant. The A40 is very nice, but I question if it may be a bit too large? From your previous posts, I see that you are a big fan of the Elan 350 as well. I have seen more than a few listed as "sail away ready" for sub $200k, but again is that lacking in necessary equipment? Essentially what I'm asking is what would you look for if you were in your early 30's, single without children and had 2 or 3 years to sail as much as you wish where ever you wish? Thank you!
Best Regards,
Todd
First of all, I have my preference for the boats you outlined but I won't go there.

You should think about seasons and weather / temps you want to be sailing, moored, anchored or docked at. This will have a bearing on the creature comforts and interiors you should be looking for.

2nd, I'd suggest thinking about where you want to cruise - little if any tide swing in the Med, different elsewhere. Do you need a boat that can beach or are you fine anchoring a half mile off the beach ;-).

3rd, how many days / weeks you plan on going without topping off at the docks?

4th, how may people will join you and what time of comforts are they looking for? It's one thing to be a single bohemian... another to expect all guests to do likewise if you want to see them more than once.

5th, why 3 years? That's a very, VERY long time on a boat for about 99.999% of the world population. If it is 3 years non-stop, day in and day out, I'd suggest going with a "comfortable pair of shoes" as opposed to those pocket rockets. A nice compromise is the RM 1050 as has been seen previously on this thread. Other cruisers will give more comfort for the day to day that is more than a "nice to have" after a few months non-stop.

On the boats listed, you have a 2X price differential. Can pick up a very good condition SF2300 for around 75K€ ready to sail. An Elan, Akilaria, or JPK (960) for mid 150K€'s ready to sail, or a Pogo 10.50 but not under 200K€ ready to go outfitted with what you need to do what you're planning on doing. There is no used market for the 10.50 now as owners like them too much. There is the A35 which is a smaller version of the A40. It is a fast, light boat that works well everywhere, but I wouldn't want to live on it for more than a few weeks max. I haven't been on an A40, but the interior looks the same and again, not something I'd initially look to "live" in. The A's do have amazingly light feel on the rudder and are fast, very well built boats (I've races the GS and A31) but they aren't live-aboards in my opinion.

Everything's a compromise so take 20K of your 200K budget and rent for a week the target boats you're looking at and I'm sure you'll find something that works for you.

Good luck and see you out there in the Med some day!
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  #768  
Old 03-02-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TJMAC View Post
Paulo, you don't disappoint! You were right in your assumptions of what I'm looking for nearly across the board. I would say that I am very partial to twin rudders and prefer a tiller( or twins), but could more than live with the Elan 350 set up. When you stated adding a large cost to refit the Akilaria, what else would be required other than what is considered "sail away ready"(electronics included)? I agree it is Spartan, but although I have yet to sail one, it looks pretty well suited to 2 or 3 adults for extended time aboard. I agree on the Pogo 10.50 -beautiful but a bit of a white elephant. The A40 is very nice, but I question if it may be a bit too large? From your previous posts, I see that you are a big fan of the Elan 350 as well. I have seen more than a few listed as "sail away ready" for sub $200k, but again is that lacking in necessary equipment? Essentially what I'm asking is what would you look for if you were in your early 30's, single without children and had 2 or 3 years to sail as much as you wish where ever you wish? Thank you!
Best Regards,
Todd
Todd, I bet that the Akilaria, ready to cruise extensively and ready to cross the pond will cost more 40% than the 98 500€ that are advertised. I am not saying the boat is expensive, it is not, for the performance and overall quality. But I am not talking about the interior. Some years back I had been inside one of the first Akilaria and the cruising version was really spartan. Compared with it the Pogo interior looks very nice and comfortable

The Elan 350 has a much more comfortable interior, one where I could live for extended periods (and I am a lot older than you) but the boat fully equipped is a lot more expensive than its basic price. If you want send me an email (by private message) and I can send you the list of extras with all the prices. Count with 40 000€ or more on extras.

I have already told you what boat I would have chosen, this one:

Andrés Durán, Brokerage & Yachtservice

Fact is that if I didn't had a wife I would seriously consider that one right now. It is fully equipped for extensive cruising (Radar, plotter, Webasto heating, watermaker, and a lot of good sails) it's a 2006 boat and costs 72000€!!!!

I almost regret to have a wife

The new A40, fully equipped like this one would cost 250 000€ or more

I don't understand why you say the A40 is too big. The boat has a huge cockpit but the inside is small. The boat weights less than 6000kg and a big Ballast/Displacement ratio makes it a boat that forgives mistakes. Its rigging is perfect for solo sailing. Its extended waterline and contained beam makes it very fast and comfortable upwind and downwind its lightweight and planning hull makes easy two digit speeds.

When you cruise extensively or when making a passage you will need to carry a non negligible load and the extra length of this boat makes it possible to carry that load without affecting too much the boat performance. The same load on one of the smaller boats will have a much bigger impact on the performance. Besides this A40 is much faster than any of the other boats you have mentioned and a lot cheaper

Off course, it has the disadvantage of the big draft (2.47) but with that performance, with that equipment and for that price...well, you can't have everything and I would have accepted the limitations that a big draft brings to cruising. On the Med you can live with it, I mean, a 2.5m draft.

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 03-02-2011 at 05:54 PM.
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  #769  
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First of all, I have my preference for the boats you outlined but I won't go there.......
I'd suggest thinking about where you want to cruise - little if any tide swing in the Med, different elsewhere. Do you need a boat that can beach or are you fine anchoring a half mile off the beach ;-).


Not your preferences

I agree with you if the cruising grounds where in Brittany or the west coast of England, but on the Med with 2.5m you would not have big problems. My old boat had about 2m draft and on the Med I stayed on the 2.5m line and I was normally among the boats closer to the beach. You could not go closer because of the buoys that delimited the swim area. With a 2.5M draft you would stay 40m more distant from the beach.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bb74 View Post
There is the A35 which is a smaller version of the A40. It is a fast, light boat that works well everywhere, but I wouldn't want to live on it for more than a few weeks max. I haven't been on an A40, but the interior looks the same and again, not something I'd initially look to "live" in. The A's do have amazingly light feel on the rudder and are fast, very well built boats (I've races the GS and A31) but they aren't live-aboards in my opinion.
..
I agree that the A35 has not the interior space for cruising extensively with some comfort, but as you know it is one of the boats that have won the Transquadra (a Transat solo, or duo). Last one on the duo category was won by a A35 and that means that two guys crossed the pond on it .

The A40 is another history, the interior is big enough and comfortable enough for 2 or 3 guys to cruise extensively. The only weak spot is the galley that is really small, but guys don't normally waste a lot of time cooking and I guess that would be enough for most. At least when I was 30 I used to cruise extensively (two months) in a boat that was a lot less equipped.

I am talking about the old A40, because the new A40 has a good galley and a even better saloon. Really cozy. Probably if I could I would have one. It is just the perfect sailing boat, in what concerns performance. The interior is big enough for me (about the Elan 350 size) . I have talked to them and they even would put me two rudders on the boat and a smaller draft (2.2m) with a bulb. But it was just too expensive

Regarding prices, Todd seems to be American and that means he does not have to pay about 20% European Taxes. I am sure he would pay less.

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 03-03-2011 at 03:28 AM.
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  #770  
Old 03-03-2011
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A 40rc movie

Curiously I have not posted yet about the new Archambault 40rc (A40rc). we have posted and talked about the A35 but not about its bigger sister.

I guess that is because I like it a lot and I cannot have one .Too expensive. These boats are made in a small factory by 36 guys that love their work and make it just perfect.

If you want they will modify the boat the way you wanted. I asked for two rudders (for better downwind control on solo sailing) and a bulbed keel (they have a non bulbed keel to maximize IRC rating) with 2.20m draft for cruising and they have said immediately: No problem.

Well, the problem was the price. Not that this boat does not deserve the money it costs, but it is a really top performer and that does not came cheap. Well, it is less expensive than a J 122, but the J is also an expensive boat. This one is just a bit more expensive than a Dufour 40e, for instance.

As I have said the boat has a huge cockpit is SEXY, very fast and offers an amazingly good cruising interior for a boat that can be raced with success at top level. Because it has such a big cockpit, I would say that offers the same interior space of an Elan 350, maybe a bit more, but not much. The interior is of very good quality, well made, harm and cozy. A real nice boat. Not a problem for a couple to live on one for considerable periods of time.

The boat was tested among other magazines by Cruising world. Odd, a Cruising boat magazine testing a really sharp contender and do you now what they have said?:

The model year 2009 appears to be a very good one for performance cruisers with the potential to wreak havoc on a racecourse. ....

Once the sails are up, however, it all translates into breathtaking moments. We sailed the A40RC on a moderate day with winds ranging through 8 to 12 knots. Upwind, in the puffs, we registered an extremely closewinded 8 knots and, once the very able crew of four had the large spinnaker up and flying, lovely bursts into the mid-9-knot province.

Surprisingly, the A40 has a much cozier, more workable accommodation plan than one might expect, with twin doubles aft that also feature the best adjustable pipe berths on any boat introduced this year. They would be good for coastal sailing and even better for an offshore-racing crew. The only problem? You might never want the race to end.

Archambault A40 RC: A Mini Review | Cruising World

Surprise:They find it good for cruising. I didn't know that on Cruising World they liked that kind of boat for cruising

Archambault A40RC yacht



























Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 10-23-2013 at 12:17 PM.
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