Interesting Sailboats - Page 82 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Boat Review and Purchase Forum
 Not a Member? 


Like Tree1265Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #811  
Old 03-15-2011
JAndersB's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Sweden
Posts: 467
Thanks: 6
Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 4
JAndersB is on a distinguished road
Paulo,
I have had a thorough look at Elan 410 and Dufour 40e, but not testsailed them. Both of them lack the double rudder option and also have quite a low ballast ratio. I can also not see out in any of them (standing) since the windows are too high. I do not like the divided hull window in the Dufour and the hull windows in the Elan are very small. I have asked for bigger and more hull windows in the Elan 380 but they could not do that. I had the people doing the hull windows for Najad install bigger hull windows (and cabin top windws) than the original in the Dehler, so it is very close to a semi-deck saloon right now. One other nice point with the Dehler is the targa arc and low wind screen. You can store the cockpit canopy against the arc and very quickly cover the cockpit as an outdoor deck saloon solution (as on a Malö).

Both the Elan and the Dufour are also slightly too big for me. I would like to stay under 12 m x 4 m x 2 m. I also like a mast at maximum 18.00 m. The Dehler is not fulfilling all these either but due to narrower stern and lower hull sides often goes as an under 12m long in marinas. Salona 41 was not around when I bought the Dehler and now feels a little bit outdated by all these new breeds.

Beneteau Sense would be very interesting if it would be possible to do a 39 feet version at 3,95m wide.

By the way, the Olsen 38 P that I had before was pretty much an slightly smaller version of the Luffe 43 DS and I am astonished that no one buys the moulds and starts making them again. I totally agree with what you say about the Luffe. It is sad that (until now - Beneteau Sense is a first step, I do not count the Jeanneau DS-series or Bavaria Vision as anything close to a deck saloon) no bigger manufacturer makes a deck saloon at a decent price. I do not think it is only rich retired eldery people that are interested in deck saloons. Hanse did a version of the 371 some years ago but not in any bigger numbers though. I wonder if it would be more of the right time for it now.

Regards,
Anders
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #812  
Old 03-16-2011
PCP's Avatar
PCP PCP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal, West Coast
Posts: 16,162
Thanks: 21
Thanked 95 Times in 79 Posts
Rep Power: 10
PCP will become famous soon enough
Salona 41 boat speed

Quote:
Originally Posted by JAndersB View Post
Paulo,
I have had a thorough look at Elan 410 and Dufour 40e, but not testsailed them. Both of them lack the double rudder option and also have quite a low ballast ratio. ....... Salona 41 was not around when I bought the Dehler and now feels a little bit outdated by all these new breeds.

Beneteau Sense would be very interesting if it would be possible to do a 39 feet version at 3,95m wide.
..
There is more to reply to your post, but let's begin with these points:

The Elan (and the Salona) are not " quite low ballast ratio" sailing boats. They have a "normal" Ballast ratio for these type of boats: 33%. The Dufour is a bit "lighter" with 30%. But remember that your Oceanis had only 27% and the bulb was higher (CG higher) because these boats have a lot more draft.

I don´t understand why you want a Beneteau sense. They don't go well against the wind are heavy and slow and they have a low ballast ratio. A 39 ft version of a Sense would make the RM 1200 a very fast boat, by comparison and the ballast ratio is similar to the Beneteau Oceanis.

I guess that when you talk about outdated you are not talking about aesthetics or are you? If you are it can make sense to have a Beneteau Sense but if we talk about performances that is an entire different story .

For me aesthetics are important but what really make a boat outdated is its sailing performance, after all it is for that they are designed, specially performance boats, to sail well. There are several ways to design a fast boat (shape of the hull, beam) and in the end what counts is how well the boat sails.

To understand the comparative sailing performance of the Salona 41 we can take a look at the last world ORCi championship (September 2010). The Salona 42, that is a 41 with only one steering wheel made overall third place in the fastest category.

ISAF : Countdown To 2010 ORCi World Championship Is On

Third place for Salona 37 and Salona 42 at ORCi World Championship in Flensburg, Germany - Salona Yachts

Of course, ORCi is an handicap championship with many races but with one big offshore race that has raced on the two ways, up and down (the boats went downwind and upwind) and it was raced with stormy conditions, with winds of 30k and over. That was what I wanted to really have a look at the performance of the Salona 42, and of course I was interested on the real times, not on the compensated times.

The Salona racing was a 42R, that does not mean a truly racing boat but only the standard Salona built to IBC specifications and with a lighter interior. The things that make it IBC are on the option list of a standard Salona, not a carbon boat like some other racing versions of cruising boats. That boat is used to cruise and even had a webasto heating system mounted.

On that race the Salona arrived in 5th place (real time).

The one that arrived first was a DK 46, a carbon cruiser/racer with 9 hours 10m 26s
dk yachts builders of high-tech composite yachts and boats
next a Ker 11.3 (a racing boat) with 9hours 51m 31s Race1 Ker 11.3
the third at only 28s, a Rodman 42, a racer that was won already ORC championships and that is one of the fastest race boats around
https://www.thedailysail.com/inshore...n-championship
the fourth was a Dubois 40, a carbon/kevlar race boat with 10h 01m 45s.
the fifth was the Salona at only 3s from the Dubois
In sixth arrived a King 40, a very expensive and exclusive cruiser/racer with 10h 04m 10s
| Sailing World
In seventh the Grand Soleil 42R, a factory boat completely different from the cruising boat
Grand Soleil - Cantiere del Pardo
another racing boat a Rainbow 42 arrived next
and then the second big production boat, a First 40 comes next wit 10h 12m 21s

and that was a good result behind come a lot of fast boats including some racers: IMX 40, a x-41, a Luffe 43, a Dubois 40, a Pacer 376, a Prima 38...and the two Elan 410, the fastest of them made it in 10h 48m 23s.

http://www.fsc.de/fileadmin/Regatta/...a_-_Race_4.pdf

I confess that the study of those numbers helped me to understand better the Salona 41 performance. Actually they say in the shipyard that the 41 is going to be just a bit faster because they managed to make it slightly lighter.


Hei Anders, do you still think that the Salona 41 is " a little bit outdated by all these new breeds"?

Well regarding aesthetics it is a personal thing. Personally I find that the classic Salona look will make it fashion prof. I mean when boats that today seem very trendy were substituted by the next trend, they will look outdated but the Salona will continue to look.... Classic

Some photos of the World championship: First one the DK 46 with the Salona in hot pursuit. The second, the Salona 42.





Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 10-23-2013 at 12:36 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #813  
Old 03-16-2011
JAndersB's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Sweden
Posts: 467
Thanks: 6
Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 4
JAndersB is on a distinguished road
Hi Paulo,
there are so many variables to boat design and "your own favourite design" so it is very difficult to consider all of them all the time. I my self, partly as a result from this thread, has more or less given up the thought of finding a fast (going up on plane without spinnaker in above cruising gennaker wind) boat, since sailing for me is also bringing with me what I need for the trip and enjoying the scenery at anchor or beeing able to watch TV with more than 2 people onboard and our feets up on the sofa (strange, no one seems to think about that aspect among the designers).

So the Sense might be heavy, but instead it has beutiful views from inside and from the wheel and a well designed saloon. And a boat is OK to have low ballast ratio (and for me that is everything below 38%) if it depends on form stability AND has double rudders. The Oceanis was a wonderful boat to sail if winds and waves where constant. I have given many "racer cruisers", for instance Arcona 400, a match in open sea and windy but steady conditions, but they very very seldom stay that for a longer time. So you pass the optimal 15 degrees of heel and you need the rudders to stay in control since not even dumping the main helps if you have the sail area you want for a thrilling ride. The Oceanis with double rudders though would have prevented me from selling it and I even talked with a yard about rebuilding it. I already had rebuilt most of the deck set up to make it work as a sailing boat, not a caravan.

It is a total different story to talk about competitions and results in them. I do not have 5 guys on the rail nor somebody that all the time can release the main sheet when I come out from the wind shadow behind an island or is hit by a gust. I have had boats that are doing well in competitions but that are not good at all in loaded down state and sailed by myself only. So I personally look very little at competition results when choosing a boat, since to many unknown variables affect these. Instead I desperately try to gasp all variables that I think are important and that in itself is a very though job.

And, yes, I find the new wide sterned, chined, with double rudders and to some extent with pilot houses or small deck saloons much more sexy than many new but still traditional boats.

Regards,
Anders
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #814  
Old 03-16-2011
PCP's Avatar
PCP PCP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal, West Coast
Posts: 16,162
Thanks: 21
Thanked 95 Times in 79 Posts
Rep Power: 10
PCP will become famous soon enough
On design - Ballast

Quote:
Originally Posted by JAndersB View Post
Hi Paulo,
there are so many variables to boat design and "your own favourite design" so it is very difficult to consider all of them all the time. ... And a boat is OK to have low ballast ratio (and for me that is everything below 38%) if it depends on form stability AND has double rudders. The Oceanis was a wonderful boat to sail if winds and waves where constant. I have given many "racer cruisers", for instance Arcona 400, a match in open sea and windy but steady conditions, but they very very seldom stay that for a longer time. So you pass the optimal 15 degrees of heel and you need the rudders to stay in control since not even dumping the main helps if you have the sail area you want for a thrilling ride. The Oceanis with double rudders though would have prevented me from selling it and I even talked with a yard about rebuilding it.
Anders,
Yes there are many parameters in boat design and exactly for that reason I believe you are wrong in assuming that a boat with low ballast ratio and single rudder is always prone to lose control at high angles of heel. I know for a fact that depends on many things including hull design, keel and rudder design, and I know that because my old boat a Bavaria 36 (with lead deep keel) sailed close to the wind with 25º/30º of heel, all the time (I like to go fast ). I know what I am talking about because I had on the cockpit an instrument to measured it. To lose the control of the boat you had to be seriously overpowered and you could feel it on the wheel well before it happens.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JAndersB View Post
It is a total different story to talk about competitions and results in them. I do not have 5 guys on the rail nor somebody that all the time can release the main sheet when I come out from the wind shadow behind an island or is hit by a gust. I have had boats that are doing well in competitions but that are not good at all in loaded down state and sailed by myself only. So I personally look very little at competition results when choosing a boat, since to many unknown variables affect these. Instead I desperately try to gasp all variables that I think are important and that in itself is a very though job.
Here I disagree with you, I mean, If someone is interested in a performance and fast boat (like me). Of course you have to know what you are looking at and the meaning of things, but a boat that is faster with 5 guys on the rail than another boat with 5 guys on the rail, will still be faster if you take from the rail of both boats the 5 guys. So a Salona 41 without guys on rails would be faster than a First 40, a Luffe 43 or an Elan 410 on the same condition.

Also, a boat that is stiff because is made taking into consideration the extra righting moment needed for racing will be more forgiven than a pure cruising boat, providing you have the right sail up. That need for extra stiffness on the cruiser-racers is the reason why the norm on the market among mass production boats in what regards ballast ratio for them is about 33% while the pure cruisers have normally a ratio between 27% and 30%. You say that for you everything below 38% is low ballast ratio, but there are very few boats with 38% ballast ratio and they are the exception and not the rule. More weight on the ballast than what is needed adds almost nothing and makes a boat heavier and slower.

Having only 27% ballast ratio on a beamy boat like the Vision that has not a big draft can be a big problem. True that the huge form stability will give it plenty of stability but that is when the hull has 15/20º of heel. Have it knock down and I don't know if with the weight of the radar and sails he comes back. Have the bad luck of having it capsized and upside down and that huge form stability will still be there, but this time with the boat inverted. It would take a long long time for the boat to re-right itself, maybe too long.

Regarding weight on a performance boat the rules are simple. Live light (and I have already understood that it is not your style) and have a bigger boat than what you would have needed if load capacity/speed was not a concern. And here again the way you think about this does not seem right to me. If you want a reasonable fast boat and know that you want to carry a lot of stuff, look for a bigger boat, not a smaller one.

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 10-23-2013 at 12:38 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #815  
Old 03-17-2011
JAndersB's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Sweden
Posts: 467
Thanks: 6
Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 4
JAndersB is on a distinguished road
Hi Paulo,
The boats used for racing are (always) tuned very much, both in obvious matters as carbon mast and 3D-sails but also with deeper keels, super finished keel profiles, taken out anchor gear etc. and sailed by big crews so the results with the same boats in standard mode could be very different in my opinion. And since I am not choosing between a Salona 41, Elan 410 and others similar it is of low interest for me which win in super tuned mode.

Having had boats with everything from 27% to 43% ballast ratio I know what I would prefer (as do buyers of X-yachts and Hallberg-Rassy for instance). The biggest reason for low ballast ratio on many boats are lower cost. Light keel, less reinforcements, ligther rig and so on. Cost saving can be huge.

An older Bavaria 36, and also my previous Dufour 38 classic and my current Degler all have narrower sterns than modern boats and yes, they can handle heel much better. They do not plane though. And, yes, add a heavy keel and still they do not plane :-)

I have also test sailed boats with dubble rudders, as for instance the Southerly 35 already 2005, and I can only agree with the testers of for instance the Elan 350, the difference in control is huge even if the high weight of the Southerly prevented it from taking off down wind.

So I had hoped for these new designs but if that meens I have to keep filling up my water tanks every day or leaving my bikes at home, they are not the solution either.


Life is always a question of compromises and boat choise even more so. A bigger boat is though not an alternative for me. I want to be able to moore bow to the cliffs here in our archipelago, with only myself as a crew, and also be able to find a marina space in the small danish harbours with 3 m between the poles for the aft mooring lines. I want to be able to crane out the mast in the autumn without 5 helpers and I want to get under some bridges 18.00 high. The search goes on....

Regards,
Anders

Last edited by JAndersB; 03-17-2011 at 02:19 AM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #816  
Old 03-17-2011
PCP's Avatar
PCP PCP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal, West Coast
Posts: 16,162
Thanks: 21
Thanked 95 Times in 79 Posts
Rep Power: 10
PCP will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by JAndersB View Post
The boats used for racing are (always) tuned very much, both in obvious matters as carbon mast and 3D-sails but also with deeper keels, super finished keel profiles, taken out anchor gear etc. and sailed by big crews so the results with the same boats in standard mode could be very different in my opinion. And since I am not choosing between a Salona 41, Elan 410 and others similar it is of low interest for me which win in super tuned mode.
Hi Andrews,
I hope you don't mind I continue this conversation. I am not trying to pick on you and I am enjoying it .

Yes you are right. I have said that you have to know what to look. Both the Elan and the Salona on the world championship had high specifications but if the hull of the boat and global design was not good, they could tune what they want but they would never make a decent racing boat.

This comparative performance between Salona 42 an Elan 410 had interested me specially because it is not only a comparison between two boats but between two very different hulls. The Salona has a more traditional hull, with less beam (3.82m to 3.91m) and a less broader stern. I was interested to see if the more slick Salona hull could be a match for the more powerful Elan hull and that in real time. Both proved to be fast boats (as the First 40) and the differences are negligible to me. What I was afraid was that the Salona could be fast on compensated time but not on real time. Well, I am enlighted about that.

Regarding that tune up that you are talking about it is also necessary to know what you get from a standard boat and what is the cost to make it a fast boat (tune up as you say). I have said before that I would chose the Salona 41 over the new Dehler 41 because I can get a tunned up boat by the price I can get a basic Dehler, and as you have implied, the difference is huge, specially with the Dehler

By the way are you not interested by the new Dehler 41? I expect it to have sweet interiors and finish.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JAndersB View Post
Having had boats with everything from 27% to 43% ballast ratio I know what I would prefer (as do buyers of X-yachts and Hallberg-Rassy for instance). The biggest reason for low ballast ratio on many boats are lower cost. Light keel, less reinforcements, ligther rig and so on. Cost saving can be huge.
Yes I agree about that. But that is not always the case when we are not talking about the ones that are fighting for the lower prices (Beneteau Oceanis, Dufour grand large, Jeanneau or Bavaria). The truth is that the boats should be light to sail well and add more ballast than what is necessary can make unnecessarily a boat slow. Besides you can not look only for the ballast ratio you have to look at draft and the way it is distributed on the keel: All in one torpedo on the bottom, on the bottom but more distributed or all distributed by the entire keel. These different situations can make a big diference.

One of the boats that has the ballast it needs by design and not to be cheap is the Salona. It has a stainless steel structure that made the distribution of all efforts by the hull. I have asked them if they could put more lead on the ballast if I wanted and they said they could and that would not be any structural problem with it. They half jocking said that if I wanted the keel of the 44 on the 41 it would be possible

Quote:
Originally Posted by JAndersB View Post
I have also test sailed boats with duble rudders, as for instance the Southerly 35 already 2005, and I can only agree with the testers of for instance the Elan 350, the difference in control is huge even if the high weight of the Southerly prevented it from taking off down wind.
That is interesting. I mean that you have tested the Southerly 35. I found it a very interesting boat. I have read a lot of good things about it and I remember a boat test (for a magazine) with 30k of wind. The boat not only behave admirably as have show a remarkable speed for that type of boat.

Do you mind to give us your impressions? I think that boat deserves a post

Regarding twin rudders I agree with you. But a single rudder can work perfectly well if it is big enough. Of course that is sometimes unpractical and on the cruising boats they make them not sufficient long to have a good control on limit situations. On cruiser racers they make them so long that you would better not chose a 2.00 draft boat because the rudder is dangerously close to the boat max draft and risks damage in any grounding.

Yes a two rudder system is in my opinion a better solution, but pay attention, that will make the boat very hard to maneuverer in the marina, specially backwards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JAndersB View Post
So I had hoped for these new designs but if that meens I have to keep filling up my water tanks every day or leaving my bikes at home, they are not the solution either.

Life is always a question of compromises and boat choise even more so. A bigger boat is though not an alternative for me. I want to be able to moore bow to the cliffs here in our archipelago, with only myself as a crew, and also be able to find a marina space in the small danish harbours with 3 m between the poles for the aft mooring lines. I want to be able to crane out the mast in the autumn without 5 helpers and I want to get under some bridges 18.00 high. The search goes on....
Could not agree more. Choosing a boat is always a compromise and you are lucky to have a choice. Many times the choice is very limited...to what one can afford

Yes, I have seen photos of your archipelago. It is a wonderful place.

But you really have a lot of limitations regarding the boat you want. The choice is going to be difficult. Of course the perfect boat for all your needs seems to me the Nordship 38...but it is really an expensive boat.

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 03-17-2011 at 02:09 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #817  
Old 03-18-2011
PCP's Avatar
PCP PCP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal, West Coast
Posts: 16,162
Thanks: 21
Thanked 95 Times in 79 Posts
Rep Power: 10
PCP will become famous soon enough
Boreal 44 Boat of the year VM boat test

New boat. Have you heard about the Boreal 44? Well that's a fantastic boat. The new one is a 44ft it is a long range cruiser the kind of boat to live aboard all time and to circumnavigate.

It was elected by the jury (and the readers) of Voile Magazine the 2010 boat magazine and that is amazing because this is not a boat that fulfills the program of the vast majority of sailors ,it is a very specific boat and to have won with this handicap says a lot about who impressed the testers were with its qualities.


Bretagne Info Nautisme : Boréal 44, la victoire d'une équipe

The boat, as it was almost inevitable being a French passagemaker, it is an aluminum centerboarder, like the OVNI but had an incredible number of innovations: Lower ballast, centralization of weight/Ballast, foils near the ruder and an ice breaker stem are just some of the unusual features. The jury found out also that it was a pleasant and fast boat to sail with an excellent performance to windward (for this type of boat). And besides, it is a lot of boat for the money.

This is boat is an evolution of a 50ft and the designer is an experienced sailor that circumnavigates with kids, so he should know what is needed

The chief writer of Voile magazine said about it: «The Boréal 44 is a concentrate of nautical thinking», (redaction Voiles Magazine)

This is a dream boat for all who dream to circumnavigate with comfort and are not "plagued" with the virus of speed

Boreal 44 Expedition Aluminum Sailboat

Bienvenue chez Boreal





































They say about the boat:

The Boréal is an aluminium sailing yacht with a centerboard, designed for long offshore voyaging. This means that the approach is totally different from a ‘holiday’ cruising boat
built in aluminium (which, whilst not an absolute necessity for long voyages, remains the best choice of material) with a centerboard inside a keel box.

«I wanted to build a solid performance boat, a roomy all-rounder, as comfortable at sea as at anchor, easy to handle and to maintain. Our doghouse with an incorporated chart table is quite unique in this boat length category. »
A fast boat, simple to use and to maintain, which makes you feel at ease in Cowes harbour, in a Polynesian lagoon or even in the Furious Fifties. »

A well ballasted boat with a centerboard for going windward, without slamming in waves and with a balanced helm… (quite a challenge!) wit an ergonomic cockpit with 2 sheltered outside seats, allowing you to stand up and remove wet weather gear before entering the boat. The cockpit also had to offer good visibility to the helmsman while sailing and maneuvering. A boat with a true watertight companionway door,a doghouse with a huge chart table, allowing you a 360° view from inside whilst navigating.

A deck saloon and a living area with an outside view, full hull and deck insulation throughout for the tropics and high latitudes, large storage volumes and substantial diesel and water tank capacities, the ability to store large items such as a RIB, a paraglider or a motorcycle
a roomy and welcoming cockpit, a well thought out ventilation a centreboard, enabling you to beach the boat, and to visit many places off limits for a deep draught boat.

Profiled appendices to guarantee the best possible sailing performance, centralized weight (lead ballast cast in one piece, chain and anchor winch brought back to the mast) an ice-breaker stem with watertight bulkheads fore and aft double glazed portlights, the anchor winch at the base of the mast, allowing it to hoist the mainsail or someone up the mast without any effort, a writing desk in every cabin, where blue water children can do their homework…

The shape of the hull is modern with narrow entries, fine at the bow, a wide but not extreme beam, and a load carrying stern. The lines aft are relatively firm to obtain the maximum dynamic waterline, with a minimum of drag, remembering that whilst we hope to be able to surf before the tradewinds, this remains a displacement hull.The hull form is balanced and undergoes little distortion when heeled.
The keel and skeg has several functions:
It allows beaching and drying out without resting on the bottom plate. It forms an anti-drift surface increasing course stability, It effectively protects the propeller and rudder It lowers the centre of gravity of the boat (engine, ballast, batteries and diesel tanks are in the keel section)

The NACA profiled centreboard increases the boat’s draught from 1m to 2m85 (Boréal 50). Changing the board’s angle moves the anti-drift center forward and backwards, which can help to balance the rudder. The two 14° inclination and 4,5° incidence aft dagger boards, help to balance the boat when going to windward and reduce loads on the autopilot… This is done by adjusting the immersed (downwind) dagger board. Going downwind, with the centreboard (almost completely) raised and the two dagger boards down, the boat is on rails, gentle and pleasant to steer.

A lot of work has been carried out to centralise weight and lower the centre of gravity of the boat. The chain locker (carrying up to 250 kg of chain) is at the mast foot. The chain goes below the deck through a tube from the bow to the locker.The engine and the batteries are in the keel box, placing the CG of the boat 400 mm below the water line and about 1400 mm further forward than in the case of its “classic” alternative. The ballast is housed in the keel box. Compared to a centreboarder, this again lowers the CG by several dozen cms. Unlike normal practice, we don’t pile up lead blocks as ballast. We construct moulds of every ballast compartment and we make massive lead blocks to fit each of them, resulting in a gain of 20 % in density. All this efforts contribute to an impressive stability curve.

LOA 13.80 m
LWL 11.63 m
Beam 4.30 m
Draft 1.02/2.48 m or 3' 3'' to 8' 1''
Displacement, fully equipped: 10 290 kg , 26, 638 lbs
Engine 55 hp (optional 75 hp)
Sail area : Mainsail 45 m² and Genoa 55 m²
Fuel: 600 l or 158 gals.
Fresh water: 760 l or 200 gals






Regards

Paulo
daviid likes this.

Last edited by PCP; 10-23-2013 at 12:40 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #818  
Old 03-19-2011
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 5
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
phollings is on a distinguished road
Boreal 44

I have a question that is related to the Boreal 44. BTW, thanks for the excellent photos. The photos of the boat in a beached state seem to show that it's painted below the waterline. My question relates to a potential maintenance issue. Inevitably, when beaching a boat, there must be some abrasion against the bottom due to the shifting forces of wind and current. I suppose this works through the paint down to bare metal. Wouldn't this initiate a blistering process in the paint surrounding the abraded area due to oxygen starvation? Wouldn't it be better (anti-fouling issues aside) to leave it unpainted? What's the "correct" thinking here?
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #819  
Old 03-19-2011
PCP's Avatar
PCP PCP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal, West Coast
Posts: 16,162
Thanks: 21
Thanked 95 Times in 79 Posts
Rep Power: 10
PCP will become famous soon enough
Hello Phollings,

Wellcome to the thread and to sailnet
I guess you would be right if the boat would not need anti-fouling.

I am not an expert on aluminum boats, but the French have 40 years of experience making aluminum boats. They are low maintenance boats and are the ones that they use most for extensive voyaging and I am sure that their accumulated experience (that is huge) will provide you with the right answer.

Unfortunately I don't have that experience and can only guess but I can tell you that almost all the boats are still in th water and going strong, even the old ones

Regards

Paulo
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #820  
Old 03-19-2011
Top Sekret Ninja Sailor
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Somewhat near Naptown
Posts: 128
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 7
slap is on a distinguished road
Boreal 44

On the Boreal 44, it looks like the chain is kept near the mast - very nice.

Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 43 (0 members and 43 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Cruising sailboats for sale welch Cruising & Liveaboard Forum 10 04-25-2012 05:20 PM
THE Yacht Builder List T37Chef Boat Review and Purchase Forum 26 07-08-2011 05:51 AM
Noob wonderings and questions about sailing, life at sail and sailboats Vans General Discussion (sailing related) 49 06-20-2011 12:18 AM
A List of ALL sailboats made with layouts? Myblueheaven Boat Review and Purchase Forum 8 10-08-2010 11:32 AM
Failure to Navigate - interesting post on Panbo Blog & from the NewsReader Mass Bay Sailors 0 12-11-2006 06:15 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:58 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.