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  #851  
Old 04-08-2011
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Thank you Eric and Paulo for the extended information.

The low speed while motoring for the opium (and Pogo?) is not a problem in itself for me since I do not like motoring either and prefer to wait for the right wind. It is little bit strange though, if it would be because of big wetted area at low speed the boats should be slow in light winds and it seems that the opium is not.

A little bit disturbing is that the Yacht test was conducted in so light wind. Doing 9 knots in 8-11 knots of wind is of course nice but it seems like that is also the limit, and that not that much more happens in 15-20 knots of wind, as in the french test. As I said before my main dissapointment with traditional performance/cruiser designs is that they do not take off and give a thrilling ride in 18-25 knots wind speed (without a crew and a spinnaker) and it seems that only a light Pogo 12.50 does that.

A rather well equipped Opium 39 costs appr €260 000 today.

Rgrds, Anders.
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  #852  
Old 04-08-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAndersB View Post
...
The low speed while motoring for the opium (and Pogo?) is not a problem in itself for me since I do not like motoring either and prefer to wait for the right wind. It is little bit strange though, if it would be because of big wetted area at low speed the boats should be slow in light winds and it seems that the opium is not.
Probably it has to do with the absence of any hell. The boat when heeled has not a big wetted area. Take a look at a comparison between the wet area of a lighter boat with a hull like the Pogo with the wet area of an heavier and more traditional design. What matters is weight and the keel and ruder dimension. A boat like the Pogo only has more drag going upwind against waves.





Quote:
Originally Posted by JAndersB View Post
A little bit disturbing is that the Yacht test was conducted in so light wind. Doing 9 knots in 8-11 knots of wind is of course nice but it seems like that is also the limit, and that not that much more happens in 15-20 knots of wind, as in the french test. As I said before my main dissapointment with traditional performance/cruiser designs is that they do not take off and give a thrilling ride in 18-25 knots wind speed (without a crew and a spinnaker) and it seems that only a light Pogo 12.50 does that.
Hum, you are exaggerating. Even my old Bavaria 36 could go upwind over 9K (with 30K wind) and with no spinnaker under reefed sail.

For what I have saw from Polar speeds, by reading and talking with sailors, boats like the J 122, the Salona 41 or performance First 40 will go downwind (at the best speed angle, not VMG) typically around 10,5K with 20K wind, a bit over 12 with 25K wind and a bit over 13/14 with 30 K winds. They can also doing this with geenaker or with sufficient wind just with a genoa and a reefeed main.

The difference in speed for the Pogo will be probably about 2K and then it will increase over with 30K and over.

The other boats can really sail faster with a spinnaker and lots of wind. I have heard of speeds close to 20K but that is tricky and for that with those boats you need a good crew and to know a lot. The Pogo is a lot easier to sail downwind fast with a lot of wind.

Take a look at what I have said about it here:

A blue water sailer that can go in light winds

On the other hand boats like the Pogo going against the wind with heavy seas will be slower and less comfortable than the other type of performance boats.

On the overall balance regarding speed and easiness of handling the Pogo wins, but it all depends on what you value most and what type of sailing you are doing most of the time (upwind, downwind, weak winds, strong winds and so on).

Regarding the Opium I believe its speed downwind with 25/30K wind it will be in between the Pogo speed and the other more traditional performance cruisers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JAndersB View Post
A rather well equipped Opium 39 costs appr €260 000 today..
Anders,

That's at least 35 000€ out of my max budget

Anyway if you don't have a dealer in Sweden perhaps I can point you to a dealer that will offer you a better price. Yes I have tried to see if I could afford one


Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 04-08-2011 at 08:29 AM.
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  #853  
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Paulo,
There is no dealer in Sweden or Scandinavia. Kiel in Germany is the closest, so if you have good experience with a dealer I would be interested to know.

Regrds, Anders
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Originally Posted by JAndersB View Post
Paulo,
There is no dealer in Sweden or Scandinavia. Kiel in Germany is the closest, so if you have good experience with a dealer I would be interested to know.

Regrds, Anders
Anders,
I have sent you a private message.

Did you saw the new integrated pole? It looks great and that was one of the things I did not like on the boat I have tried:



Regards

Paulo
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  #855  
Old 04-11-2011
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New boat and a beautiful one. When I am older and wiser I want one ...I hope I will be richer, because it is an expensive boat.

The Southerly 47 is designed by Stephen Jones that has in my opinion made the Southerlies not only good cruising boats but also beautiful boats.

They say about it:

"This blue water cruiser is designed for a high specification, with easy handling, and can be sailed by just two people.

The tall fractional rig with self tacking jib and large mainsail provides powerful sailing performance. An aysmmetric gennaker can be flown from an optional bowsprit, for light wind conditions. A double headsail rig (self tacking jib and overlapping genoa) can be chosen as an option, for optimum sailing performance. As with all Southerly’s, the semi balanced twin rudders give instantly responsive steering and precise directional stability.

The mainsheet track is set across the coachroof with lines led aft to both helm positions, for easy handling, whilst keeping the cockpit free and uncluttered. The cockpit is secure and enclosed, with deep comfortable seating. A central table offers dinette facilities for guests whilst also providing a foot brace, when the yacht is heeled. Teak double seats to the pushpit provide further areas for socialising. The fold down transom door gives access to a large stowage area, ideal for a dinghy."














Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 04-12-2011 at 04:54 AM.
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  #856  
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The bedroom looks like stupid if this boat is heeled ;-)
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  #857  
Old 04-11-2011
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The mainsheet looks like it is quite far forward on the boom; otherwise not too bad for a cruiser aside from the wide-ass/beam factor. I'd prefer a fixed keel over a swing; but so would Paulo as noted in his earlier post on this thread about the Pogo 10.5.
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Originally Posted by myocean View Post
The bedroom looks like stupid if this boat is heeled ;-)
Yes, even if this boat is designed to sail at 17º or something like it. But that's the same with Halberg Rassy or Najad. You cannot have both things, a state room for living aboard and a sea berth on the same bed The front cabin will be smaller and will offer a better grip.

But for what I have understood from the drawings, opposite from the raised saloon you will have a nice sea berth. Not bad for this kind of boat, I mean a really sea berth

Regards

Paulo
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  #859  
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Name of the boat? The pictures won´t load in my explorer.

Rgrds, Anders
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KeelHaulin View Post
The mainsheet looks like it is quite far forward on the boom; otherwise not too bad for a cruiser aside from the wide-ass/beam factor. I'd prefer a fixed keel over a swing; but so would Paulo as noted in his earlier post on this thread about the Pogo 10.5.
Regarding the main-sheet position on the boom it is quite average on this type of system that is well proven and used in almost all contemporary cruising yachts that are not aimed at performance. It will work well and give a good control of the main even if not that extra notch a rail near the wheel will provide.

Regarding a fixed keel over a swing, this boat (as almost all southerlies) can be made both ways. But on this one with 47ft if you want a decent upwind performance a deep draft would be needed and that would limit the places the boat could go. This keel was a 3.12m draft if it was substituted for a big bulbed fixed one it would had to have probably at least 2.4/2.6m draft and that is way too much for cruising. If I bought one of those I would have it with the Swing Keel. If I would have the money for it I would have also the money for the maintenance of the swing keel besides Southerly uses a very sturdy and heavy system and has 30 years of experience with it with remarkable good results.

Remarking the disadvantages you found regarding the beam/ass factor on almost any kind of contemporary cruising let me remind you that Paul & Sheryl Shard changed is old narrow deep keel boat for a Southerly 42 (two years ago) and are just selling it to buy one of the new 47. If there are guys that have experience regarding sailing and cruising are those two, the live aboard and cruised the past 20 years.

They say this about the Southerly 42, regarding the last Trasnsat :

This, our 4th transatlantic passage, was a pleasure rather than an endurance test. We ate well, slept well, spoiled ourselves with luxurious showers thanks to our Schenker watermaker, enjoyed lots of laughs and storytelling, and all had a wonderful time learning what a safe comfortable boat our new Southerly 42RST is for long-distance passage-making.

Southerly - Owners - Trans-Atlantic Lessons

The Southerly 47 is just a more comfortable, faster and better cruising boat.

Southerlies are great long range cruisers. Look at what owners say about them as passage making boats:

Southerly - Owners' Stories

Regards

Paulo
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