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  #921  
Old 05-02-2011
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And then there is the factor of weight and overall "luckyness" of a design. It is interesting to read the test of for instance X-yachts XC-series of yachts. Being very similar from 38- to 50-feet, the test resultats are rather different. The 50-footer got rather dissapointing verdicts in regards to sailing characteristics while the 38- and 42-footer came out great in the tests.

The Opium 39 and the RM1060 should both perform very well, looking at the specifications, especially the weight, but in german Yacht test the Opium last spring came out very well (9,0 knots at 90 degrees, 8-11 knot wind) but the RM 1060 as tested in the last issue did not achiew much more than 7,4 knots at 90 degrees, 12-15 knot wind despite rather windy conditions.

It seems that hull and overall design is still very difficult despite all modern tools.

The Azzuree has got rather mixed tests both in german yacht and in the english magazines. They all recommend the lighter but more expensive version.

Best regards,
Anders
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  #922  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAndersB View Post
And then there is the factor of weight and overall "luckyness" of a design. It is interesting to read the test of for instance X-yachts XC-series of yachts. Being very similar from 38- to 50-feet, the test resultats are rather different. The 50-footer got rather dissapointing verdicts in regards to sailing characteristics while the 38- and 42-footer came out great in the tests.
Yes, but sometimes we forget that all is relative. Yes, the XC 42 come out very well in tests but, in what regards sailing when compared at the same time with the Dufour 425, a boat that costs half the price, the results were similar, including motion comfort.

Voiles et Voiliers : Essais et comparatifs - XC 42 versus Dufour 425 : la bande-annonce

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Originally Posted by JAndersB View Post
The Opium 39 and the RM1060 should both perform very well, looking at the specifications, especially the weight, but in german Yacht test the Opium last spring came out very well (9,0 knots at 90 degrees, 8-11 knot wind) but the RM 1060 as tested in the last issue did not achiew much more than 7,4 knots at 90 degrees, 12-15 knot wind despite rather windy conditions.
Yes, I would say that the RM 1060 is a fast boat but all the tests I have read (and were a lot) without saying the boat does not sails well (in fact they say the boat sails well) are a bit deceiving about it, like if testers were deceived too. Very far away from the enthusiastic comments those same testers made about the Elan 350, a boat that if we look at the numbers should be slow.

Regarding the Opium 39, those speeds on the German magazine are outstanding (and that is probably the most accurate magazine in what regards boat tests) but when the boat was tested with a Dufour 40e (by another magazine) with 18/20K winds, the results were not that different and the Dufour 40e for that type of performance boat is not even particularly fast. A Salona 41 is faster.

On other and I had test sailed the Opium 39 on a bit weaker winds 7 to 9 K winds (compared with the German test conditions) and I was really impressed, the boat was doing always over 6K speed and it reached 8K and I was not using a big Geenaker like the Germans had.

YouTube - Match au sommet voiliers de 40 pieds !

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Originally Posted by JAndersB View Post
The Azzuree has got rather mixed tests both in german yacht and in the english magazines. They all recommend the lighter but more expensive version.
In what regards sailing I would not call them "mixed" results. They all found it a very fast sail boat. I would say that those mixed results had to to more with styling and the type of boat that does not suit to everybody tastes. However they all said that the Azuree 40 is a lot of boat for the money and from all boats from this type is probably the one that offers more for the money. None has such a big interior even if I bet that the one from Wauquiez has a better quality one.

I am not saying that it is the fastest, I have no doubts that the Pogo 12.50 is way faster and that probably the Opium 39 is faster too, unless we are talking about the lighter and more expensive version of the Azuree 40, but even so the Azuree is a fast and interesting cruiser.

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 05-02-2011 at 06:27 AM.
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  #923  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAndersB View Post
The Azzuree has got rather mixed tests both in german yacht and in the english magazines. They all recommend the lighter but more expensive version.
Displacement differs just by 200kg: Fast Cruiser 7,100kg vs Cruiser 7,300kg. Better results due to draft (2.6m vs 2.16m) and sail area (97sqm vs 90sqm) difference. But there is a performance package for Cruiser: Aluminum performance mast + 2.60 m Performance keel with lead bulb + Rod Rigging (+10k euro). Not sure if 50k euro price difference is justified.

p.s. Maybe someone has to share this German magazine test? Azuree 33/Azuree 40: Scharfe Sache mit scharfen Kanten

Last edited by G1000; 05-02-2011 at 06:47 AM.
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  #924  
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Originally Posted by G1000 View Post
Thanks. I have already read discussion twice. Just some time passed and wanted to double ask considering today's perspective.

I wouldn't be so sure about Wauquiez good health, this just based on "Group Experton-Revollier acquires Wauquiez Shipyard", but do we real know anything else? Wauquiez range is so short, that Opium 39 sales should skyrocket to be afloat. But with current competition and upcoming Elan400 and Maxi11 this hardly possible.
Yes you are right in pointing the Maxi 11 as a very interesting boat among this kind of fast cruisers even if I think it is going to be a much narrower boat, but I am afraid that one will cost way too much, as unfortunately all Max boats to be a problem to the Opium 39 and I bet that the Elan 40 is going to be a lot more heavier than the Opium and with a worse quality interior. I think the Opium 39 will only be replaced, commercially speaking, by another similar boat made by Wauquiez. It's bigger problem is to be a several year's old design, even if it is a GREAT design and the god point is that I believe that is the right moment to get great deals on that boat with Wauquiez.

Regarding the wauquiez sailboats, it has not such a small line, they have the pilot saloon line and they are going to have a bigger Opium. When I have said that it is on good health I mean that you would take no risk in commanding an Opium 39 now because they had a huge injection of money and are not in the hands of a small company that tries to survive but in the hands of a group that has an annual turnover of 450 millions € a year. I don't know if they are going to survive at long term (if they are a good business for the group) but I know that they will be fine at least for an year or two. I really hope they make it because Wauquiez has really a big tradition in the sailing world and it would be a shame to lose it.

https://plus.ibinews.com/article/9c5...l=FxIaeWDxv5Zq


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Originally Posted by G1000 View Post
The more I look at Azuree 40, the more I like it. Specially a black one then double windows "merge" with the hull. Plus bowsprit becomes part of the boat. On the over hand I do not like nor Opium 39, nor RM 1260, so "look" factor is really very personal. Azuree interior is really nice and should be perfect for a couple to liveaboard full time.
Yes, I agree that a black hull will look a lot better on that boat and that would hide those two series of hull ports. You have also the visual problem on those two similar ports on the "roof", on the side, over the galley. If you look at the sportive version, the Orange one, you will see that they don't have that opening over the Galley that joins the two ports and make them ugly. I am sure you can have two smaller openings, one in each port (over the Galley) and that would improve a lot the looks.

I agree that this boat has a great interior for cruising, one of the best if not the best in all performance 40fts and that at least for me, it would be more than enough for a couple living aboard.

Some videos:

The one from Yachtingworld test and two with the boat sailing with lot's of wind and another one here they sailed with a sail that should already be reefed . This is a boat that has a lot of stability but that gains in being reefed early otherwise it can take a lot of heel (like the Pogo or the Opium 39). Not dangerous on the boat stability or problematic in what regards sailing but not comfortable in what regards a cruising crew, taking into account the dimensions of the large cockpit and the big transom.

YouTube - Azuree 40 boat test.mov

YouTube - azuree 40 forza 7 cecchini

YouTube - azuree 40 lasco 30 nodi CECCHINI BALLERINI TOMASSI

YouTube - Azuree 40 sailing.MOD


I have found out more and nicer pictures. See what I mean regarding those two port hulls over the galley (orange and white boat) and see how the boat looks better in the Orange version mainly because those port hulls are not so visible. It would look even better with a black hull.

















Azuree 40 | Ceccarelli Yacht Design & Engineering

If you are going to test sail one of those I would be very interested in hearing your comments about it and if you really buy one of those I would loved to have the chance to test sail it with you . Keep us informed please, there is more people around interested in a Azuree, on the 40 and on its little sister, the 33.

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 05-02-2011 at 07:38 AM.
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  #925  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Yes you are right in pointing the Maxi 11 as a very interesting boat among this kind of fast cruisers even if I think it is going to be a much narrower boat, but I am afraid that one will cost way too much, as unfortunately all Max boats
Price target for Maxi 11 is aprox. 200k euro (of course it just a rumors), same as Azuree 40 FC. I guess Elan 40 should be about the same.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Yes, I agree that a black hull will look a lot better on that boat and that would hide those two series of hull ports. You have also the visual problem on those two similar ports on the "roof", on the side, over the galley. If you look at the sportive version, the Orange one, you will see that they don't have that opening over the Galley that joins the two ports and make them ugly. I am sure you can have two smaller openings, one in each port (over the Galley) and that would improve a lot the looks.
Black hull with orange lines is very nice. There is one big opening for all versions, just on some orange one plexiglass is divided (or maybe just a white sticker). I guess some boats could be without this opening just for racing and without oven with burner. Plexiglass
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
I agree that this boat has a great interior for cruising, one of the best if not the best in all performance 40fts and that at least for me, it would be more than enough for a couple living aboard.
Plus if double-handed both aft cabins could be used just for storage or at least one
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
I have found out more and nicer pictures. See what I mean regarding those two port hulls over the galley (orange and white boat) and see how the boat looks better in the Orange version mainly because those port hulls are not so visible. It would look even better with a black hull.
Probably I have already all possible pics Very interesting one are from factory and launch:
Factory Photos 1
Factory Photos 2
Azuree 40 launch
Pennetti Cup 2011
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Originally Posted by PCP View Post
If you are going to test sail one of those I would be very interested in hearing your comments about it and if you really buy one of those I would loved to have the chance to test sail it with you . Keep us informed please, there is more people around interested in a Azuree, on the 40 and on its little sister, the 33.
Maybe we could charter Cruiser in Marmaris and give it a good test drive Azuree 40 Cruiser

Last edited by G1000; 05-02-2011 at 09:14 AM.
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  #926  
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Smile

Nice set up in the factory.

I also like many aspects of these boats inlcuding many hull windows. But (as on the Dufour 40e) I do not like the divided vindows. On the outside the hull and top windows are rather dominant, from the inside they are very small and give the impression of trying to look out from inside a bunker, through narrow slots for the gun , not seeing very much. Do you know if they can make them bigger or continous? The Hanse/Sirius set up where they are standing (and bigger) is much nicer, or like on RM and Opium as one single piece.

Even if many magazines likes the sailing characteristic of the 40 they are somewhat complaining about it beeing nose heavy, especially when heeled. That can also be seen on the videos.

Regards,
Anders
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  #927  
Old 05-02-2011
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Most of the boats in the last few pages share one puzzling little detail. No handholds below, some even missing above. Has safety become an option?
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  #928  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAndersB View Post
Do you know if they can make them bigger or continous?
Doubt it is possible. Check this plain hull photo: Azuree hull. I personally not very much bothered with such hull windows.

Last edited by G1000; 05-02-2011 at 09:58 AM.
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  #929  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G1000 View Post
Price target for Maxi 11 is aprox. 200k euro (of course it just a rumors), same as Azuree 40 FC. I guess Elan 40 should be about the same.
...
Yes, but 200 000 euros...without VAT, and we are only talking about a 37ft and comparing it with 40ft. The price of Elan 410 and Azuree without taxes is a bit over 140 000 €....we are talking here about a 60 000 € difference for a smaller boat. That's huge and that's the price you have to pay for some Swedish and Finn Yactts, like the Sweden yacht or Finngulf.

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 05-02-2011 at 10:22 AM.
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  #930  
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Quote:
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Yes, but 200 000 euros...without VAT, and we are only talking about a 37ft and comparing it with 40ft. The price of Elan 410 and Azuree without taxes is a bit over 140 000 €....we are talking here about a 60 000 € difference for a smaller boat. That's huge and that's the price you have to pay for some Swedish and Finn Yactts, lile the Sweden yacht or Finngulf.
Minus 3ft is just a premium for a factory on Scandinavian soil To be exact Azuree 40 Cruiser 157k euro, Fast Cruiser 205k euro.
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