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Interesting Sailboats

3M views 7K replies 205 participants last post by  tdw 
#1 · (Edited)
Sirius 32, Sirius 35

THE OBJECT OF THIS THREAD:

Interesting sailboats in production and available on the new boat market (only boats with modern designs, meaning that the boats still in production but made with old designs are out). Recent designs out of production are also admissible.

Modern boat designs and modern one off, if interesting.

Classical boats and traditional boats.

Small cruisers (less than 35ft)

Seezunge 27ft: PG1-PT9

Hanse 325: PG19-PT185;

Presto 30 : 33-326; 33-327; 34-331; 34-333; 55-543; 55-544;

Tess Yachts: 37-366; 38-373;

Tess 28 Magnum: 37-369; 38-371;

Delphia 28: 38-373;

Vancouver 27/28 : 42-412; 72-717;

Cruisers between 35ft and 49ft


Catalina 355 : 31-306;

RM sailboats: PG5-PT41; 5-42

RM1050: PG5-PT46; 5-47; 5-48;

RM 1060: PG8-PT77; 8-78; 8-79; 8-80; 9-81; 30-295; 40-400; 79-786;

RM 1200: PG9-PT84; 9-85; 19-184; 20-191; 20-192; 41-404; 42-414; 42-418; 43-425; 43-426; 69-688;

RM 1350: PG9-PT82; 55-549; 95-943;

Morris Yachts: PG7-PT61

Bavaria 36: PG19-PT188; 19-190; 20-196;

Bavaria 40: PG10-PT95; 28-278; 29-281; 29-282; 29-283; 29-286; 32-316; 36-356; 51-502; 51-507; 52-518; 53-527; 53-532;

Bavaria 40s: 69-685; 78-775;

Bavaria 45: PG10-PT96; 19-190;

Rustler Yachts: PG11-PT104;

Jeanneau 409: PG11-PT103: 11-106; 30-298; 30-299; 36-356; 51-502; 51-504; 51-505; 51-509; 52-513; 52-514; 52-515; 52-516; 53-527; 54-532; 57-564; 57-570; 58-571; 58-580; 59-581; 59-583; 59-585; 62-614; 74-739; 91-906;

Jeanneau 439: 40-396; 40-397; 59-584; 59-585; 96-956;

Hanse Yachts: 16-154; 16-156; 16-158;

Hanse 400: 81-804;

Bluewater cruising yachts: 21-206

Beneteau Oceanis 37 : 31-306; 31-308; 31-309; 32-314; 55-541;

XC 38: 36-356; 96-954;

Diva 38: 39-386;

Diva 35: 40-391;

Dufour 405: 62-614;

Defline 43: 63-622

Walkabout 43: 93-923; 93-925; 93-927;

Small performance cruisers (less than 35ft)


Performance 32ft test: 29-87;

Sun Fast 3200: PG4-PT33; 4-34; 4-36; 30-293;

Elan 210: 70-691; 70-696; 78-779; 79-781;

Elan 310: PC7-PT64; 7-69; 8-71; 36-356; 41-408;

Quest 33: PG7-PT62

Olea 32: 25-243; 25-245;

First 27.7: 38-373; 38-380; 39-382;

First 30: 30-295; 39-356; 41-408; 55-545; 55-546;

Comet 26: 34-340; 35-345; 35-350; 36-353;

Pacer 30: 36-357;

Django 7.7: 40-399;

Vivace/Evosion 34: 45-442; 45-446; 45-445; 45-446; 45-447; 45-448; 45-449; 45-450; 46-458; 46-460;

Finn Flyer 34: 46-451; 46-453; 60-593;

Salona 34: 46-457;

Heol 7.4: 63-621; 63-622;

Azuree 33: 87-867; 91-902; 91-904;

JPK 10.10: 88-877 ; 88-880; 89-883;

Performance cruisers (between 35ft and 49ft)

Pogo 10.50: PG2-PT20; 3-27; 3-28; 3-30; 4-35; 5-50; 6-51; 6-52; 6-60; 11-101; 11-107; 11-110; 43-425; 44-440; 87-861; 87-867;

Pogo 12.50: PG13-PT125; 20-198; 20-199; 22-214; 27-264; 27-265; 27-269; 32-317; 32-319; 43-425; 43-426; 43-428; 44-432; 44-437; 44-439; 55-546; 55-547; 82-812; 84-831; 87-870;

Este 40: 89-890; 90-893; 90-899;

A35: PG5-PT42; 5-44; 66-660;

A40RC: 92-914;

Hammerhead 35: 64-645

Opium 39: PG5-PT42; 9-85; 9-89; 13-125; 22-220; 22-221; 43-426; 55-547; 86-857;

Aerodyne 35: PG7-PT62

Elan 350: PG7-PT64; 13-24; 13-126; 13-127; 13-128; 14-132; 18-178; 26-255; 36-356; 40-398; 41-405; 57-564; 59-589; 60-591; 72-711; 73-724; 74-738;

Elan 380: 23-223; 25-249; 26-256; 40-398; 59-589; 97-962;

Elan 410: 32-316; 79-784;

JPK 110: PG9-PT85; 10-91

Olea 44: PG10-PT100; 27-268;

Olea Yachts: 25-247;

Dufour 40e: Pg13-Pt125; 32-316; 55-547; 56-558; 56-559; 57-561; 57-562; 57-563; 59-586; 59-588,

Salona 37: 36-359; 41-406;

Salona 41: PG15-PT141; 15-145; 32-316; 36-356; 40-398; 54-538; 57-569; 78-778; 80-796; 80-798; 97-965;

Salona 42: PG15-PT145; 36-359; 40-398; 93-929; 94-932;

Cigale 16: PG15-PT148; 16-152; 17-161; 55-549; 63-625;

Cigale 14: PG17-PT163; 55-549;

Santa Cruz 43: PG17-PT169

Sydney Yachts: PG18-PT171; 18-175;

Sydney GTS 37: 43-423;

Sydney GTS 43: PG18-PT173;

Winner 12.20: PG20-193;

First 40: 31-304; 32-313; 32-316; 35-344; 36-354; 55-546; 55-547;

First 35: 36-356

Dehler 41: 30-296;

Dehler 44: 79-785;

Dehler 45: 36-356; 79-785;

Luffe 40.04: 30-300; 31-301; 31-303;

XP 38: 56-533; 56-544; 56-555; 67-622;

XP 44: 33-325;

Pacer 430: 36-357;

Pacer 376: 36-357; 66-652; 69-683;

Faurby 424: 36-360; 37-361; 37-363; 37-365;

Comfortina 39: 40-395;

J 133: 43-426; 63-620

J 111: 100-993;

Maxi 11: 99-982;

Arcona yachts: 46-456;

Arcona 410: 47-467; 47-468; 47-469; 48-471;

Arcona 430: 48-472;

Arcona 460: 50-495

Finngulf yachts: 46-456;

Varianta 44: 60-594; 60-595; 60-596; 60-597; 60-598; 64-639;

Imagine 53: 63-628;

Zou 40.2: 63-620

Ker 39: 68-676;

Finn-Flyer 42: 77-762;

Azuree 40: 85-842;

Loft 40: 85-848; 85-852;

Vivace 35: 90-895;

Sailing boats over 49ft

Zeydon 60 : PG 12-119;

JP 54: PG18-PT172;

Salona 60: 70-695;

Stadships: PG20-PT193; 20-195;

Pogo 50: 32-318; 32-319;

X-50: 54-537;

Murtic 52: 54-537;

Decksaloons and pilot house sailing boats

Sirius 32: PG1-PT1

Sirius 35: PG1-PT1; 1-10; 2-18; 50-491; 50-492; 60-559; 60-599;

Sirius 31: PG1-PT5; 2-17; 36-356;

Regina 35: 48-478;

Regina 40: PG11-PT104; 49-481; 49-483;

Southerly yachts: PG11-PT104;

Luffe 43DS: PG12-PT111; 12-115; 50-494;

Noordkaper 40: PG14-pt139;

Noordkaper yachts: PG16-PT155

Nordship 36: 30-297; 49-482;

Nordship 38: 49-482; 49-490;

Paulo's pilot house I: 38-376; 39-381; 39-383; 39-384;

Paulo's pilot house II: 69-682

Lyman & Morse 45: 38-379;

CR 38DS: 48-477; 48-478;

CR 40DS: 48-476; 48-478; 48-479; 50-494; 50-496; 50-497; 50-498;

Arcona 40DS: 50-494;

Racers

Figaro 2:pG4-PT36; 4-37; 5-42; 6-52; 6-53; 6-55; 6-56

VOR 70: PG16-PT160; 17-187

Farr 400: 67-661

Soto 40: 96-952;

Lifting keel/centerboarder

Southerly yachts: PG11-PT104;

Allures 45: PG10-PT93; 100-996;

Allures yachts: 25-248;

OVNI 425: 23-228;

OVNI 395 : 68-679; 69-690;

J 108: 67-661

Atlantic 43: 68-67

Boreal 44: 97-970; 98-974;

Multihulls till 34ft

Several Trimarans: 28-273;

Multihulls with 34ft and over

Dragonfly yachts: 26-257;

Dragonfly 35: 26-258; 27-261; 27-262;

Dragonfly 1200: 56-551;

Corsair 37: 28-276;

Farrier 39: 28-277;

Challenge 37: 28-278

Hammerhead 34: 29-385;

Hammerhead 54: 29-288; 30-292;

Trimax 10.80: 29-285;

Sig 45: 54-534; 54-539; 54-540;

Gunboat: 56-551

Fusion: 56-551;

Outremer: 56-551;

Tournier: 56-511;

Classical and Traditional boats

Jclass boats: 54-537;

Tofinou 12: 71-703;

Folck boat: 73-727;

Puffin Yachts: PG14-PT135; 14-138; 16-155;

Bestwind 50: PG12-PT116; 14-123;

Bestevaer 53: PG12-PT116;

Bestevaer yachts: PG16-PT155

Cape George 36: 41-410; 42-412;

Marieholm 33 : 42-412;

This list is not actualized. Please use the advanced search engine of the thread with the name of the model and builder. It works, most of the time.

(actualized till PG100) and it will be no more because that gives a lot of work (500 pages now).

Instead I am actualizing the titles and with the right title the thread search engine (not the one on the top of the page bit the one much below that says search thread) on its advanced option works quite well.

Hello,

Melrna posts on Miami Boat show and the comments of Smackdady about the interest of that thread lead me to think that perhaps I could share more information about sailboats I know and find interesting.

I am interested in boat design (interior and sailing performance) and I go each year at least to one of the main European Boat shows and that means basically Dusseldorf, Paris or Hamburg. On these shows you have the opportunity not only to visit the boats of the main and medium size builders but you have also the opportunity to visit the boats of small and sometime family shipyards.

Normally they build very good sailboats and sometimes they have been doing that for decades. The boats are hugely appreciated by their faithful customers but because they don't advertise their boats and there are very few on the used boat market, they pass unnoticed by the majority of the sail community.

The visit to these boats is a very rewarding experience because they are made with passion by true boat lovers and because when you talk to the guy that is on the boat, you are not talking with a dealer, that many times doesn't know much about boats, but with the builder, or the designer.

Even if you are not a buyer they will have real pleasure in talking with someone that really appreciates and understands their work. Those guys really believe in what they are doing and they do it the best way they can, no matter the cost. In a word, they are in love with what they are doing.
Of course, these boats have to be expensive.

This thread will be mainly about these boats, as a way of letting you know about these gems. Let's see if you are interested. I will not post much. If you want to know more you have just to participate and make questions.

The first one it will be the "Sirius". I have had the pleasure to visit several times their boats and to talk with the builders (father and son).

These boats have the best interiors you can find, or at least that I have seen. Not only the quality, but the design and ergonomy are fantastic. You really won't believe you are in a 32ft boat. Just incredible and amazing; Have a look at it:

Sirius-Werft Plön | Forecabin | 32 DS for 2 forecabin
Sirius-Werft Plön | Owner´s cabin | 32 DS 4-berth comfort owner´s cabin
Sirius-Werft Plön | Workshop | 32 DS for 2 workshop

Now that the son is in charge they have modernized the outside look of the new boats, they look fantastic not only inside but also outside. The boats sail well and they have clients as far as Japan.

Sirius-Werft Plön | Versions of decks house | You have the choice

Another interesting point is the way they develop new boats. They work with the clients to collect suggestions on the shape and design of the boats. A truly interesting affair, between passionate clients and passionate builders.

Sirius-Werft Plön | 35 DS | Philosophy

Take a good look at their interesting site and if you find the boat interesting, please let me know, I can add some information.

Sirius-Werft Plön | english | Welcome at website of Sirius-Werft Plön

Regards

Paulo
 
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#3,130 ·
PCP you have courage to even bring this Hunter subject up on a forum.

I agree with you on all of it and there is a lot more to dislike in this boat. If this is the best Americans can do in a modern designed production boat then we are best off with no new designs at all. We really are in a sorry state on this side of the pond.
Americans will buy them and tell us all what a great boat they have.
 
#3,132 · (Edited)
Actually I am sorry and pissed. Hunter went down was rescued and I hoped they would get it right: How difficult is to get one of the 10 top NA and one of the 10 top interior designers and tell them what you want and what you think American sailors want?

why do they insist in an amateurish endeavor like if it was just a small firm with the owner doing some very particular and odd boat to a niche market of odd guys? Believe me I would like the Hunter to make good boats and to go out of that hard spot.

I believe their building quality is not different from the one of the European mass production boats, it is a design problem what they have and an easy one to solve. Europeans Brands use not only European Architects but Australians, Newzealanders, South Africans and even Americans , why cannot Hunter get a top NA?

I guess the problem is not only with Hunter. Somebody want to bet that the Hunter 40 is going to be boat of the year on one of the American sailing magazines?

Regards

Paulo
 
#3,131 ·
Hey, stop the burn on the Hunter. It probably has a 75hp Caterpillar option that will smoke your Comet upwind:laugher.

Attention to detail is what really distinguishes a careful designer like the mentioned architect. Check out that built-in stern ladder. On your way up from your swim, do not knock yourself on the head with the seat rail above while trying to avoid the platform rigging installed on the same side!

Finally, that is not any chine, it is a motorsailing deep vee, so at 15 deg heel and 12 kts under full power, it chops waves! It's all about creating apparent wind these days!
 
#3,133 ·
Dusseldorf boat show

Guys, I have to make bookings for the Dusseldorf boat show. Hotels are booked well in advance and airplane tickets get expensive when you book later. I have a free calendar and If somebody have a less free timetable I can adjust to have some beers and meet some of you, so the ones interested just send me a PM on the next days, say, till the middle of the next week.
 
#3,134 ·
Paulo... you certain about Steck designing this newest boat? That listing shows designs from the 80s and none since. Hunter has always talked about an in-house design team, variously led by Warren Luhrs, Henderson, and I heard/read lately that Rob Mazza (formerly of C&C) is the latest..
 
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#3,136 · (Edited)
I guess you are right. I looked for Hunter 40 designed by...and the only name that turn in was Steck but I checked better and they were referring to a Hunter 40 from the 80's. I am going to edit the post.

Anyway the point is valid. It seems even worst. All big brands have in house architects but they do not design the boats they make the interface between what the brand wants and the best world Architectural Naval offices that actually design the boats. They also help in the building, adjusting small details and modifying small things.

Thanks!

Regards

Paulo
 
#3,135 · (Edited)
Paulo,

I think we all would like to see hunter build good boats even just for coastal cruising boats.

I do not know the NA so I will not totally blame him. Maybe he had to work with handcuffs on. But if he did design under restrictions I do not know why unless he was hungry. But remember hunter wants its market to people with the big dream of becoming a sailor. I have met many hunter owners over the years and they did not know what to look for in a boat when they bought it. The wife had never been in a galley under sail but going in a hunter galley at the boat show looked more like her kitchen at home so that helps make sales. I could go on but not worth it, it is just sad. So you see it is not about what sailors want, it is about what non sailors want, that is the Hunter market. I have never met an experienced sailor who owned a reputable sailboat and who decided to change to a hunter.

And yes hunter40 will win boat of the year in the American rags because the people who read the rags are ? read above.

So what does an American company do to build a good production boat? How do they educate to new ideas and good old ideas alike.

Cheers
Say hi to JFE in Dusseldorf, stop in and see the boat I think there will be one there.
 
#3,137 · (Edited by Moderator)
...
Say hi to JFE in Dusseldorf, stop in and see the boat I think there will be one there.
For sure. I have never saw a Boreal 44 inside and I want to see it. I Have been inside Allures, OVNI and Cigale and I want to see how it compares in quality. After I let you know:D

Just kidding, I know that the quality and strength of the boat are great. Is not your boat by any chance?

Regards

Paulo
 
#3,139 ·
Sorry I do not understand the Ice gate thing. Is there a limit set by the race officials of how deep they can go into the ice?

If so then the top 7 or 8 boats in 90 hours are going to all be in light winds if they have to stay in the 40's. The 500 mb charts look bad for good wind. But that would let the slower boats make up ground.

Speaking of weather, looks like the ARC is all over the map as the weather is still weird. I do not think this will be a traditional trade wind year and I think there will be lots of beam on swell coming from up north.

No not mine, someone else. Boreals boat, Juan Sa Bulan is off to do a nice run around Cape Horn. 3 young men sailing her and having a great adventure as young sailors should.

Cheers
 
#3,140 ·
Vendee globe

Sorry I do not understand the Ice gate thing. Is there a limit set by the race officials of how deep they can go into the ice?

If so then the top 7 or 8 boats in 90 hours are going to all be in light winds if they have to stay in the 40's. The 500 mb charts look bad for good wind. But that would let the slower boats make up ground.

Speaking of weather, looks like the ARC is all over the map as the weather is still weird. I do not think this will be a traditional trade wind year and I think there will be lots of beam on swell coming from up north.

No not mine, someone else. Boreals boat, Juan Sa Bulan is off to do a nice run around Cape Horn. 3 young men sailing her and having a great adventure as young sailors should.

Cheers
If you want to post about ARC be my guest. Last year I have posted but I have not find the time this year. The ARC with so many boats can give an idea of how the boats behave in what regards speed but it is all relative. It depends on the crew and on other things. Last year a big Island Packet was making a fast ARC...and then started to slow down. I guess they started to become short on diesel:D

Regarding the gates, yes there are plenty of them and the finality is to put the guys on a safe path out of icebergs and growlers. On the first editions there was no gates there was some nasty accidents and many just had a lot of luck and on that place the only guy that can help you is another racer, everybody else is thousands of miles away.

They have to leave Gouph Island to port and then they have to cross several gates along the way. The first one is south of Cape da Boa Esperança (I don't understand why you guys translate the name of capes:rolleyes:, we don't call "chifre" to the horn:D). To see all the gates just open the tracker, don't touch the scale and follow the route. You will see all the gates.

Cheers

Paulo
 
#3,143 · (Edited)
Blue Jacket 40

Yes, about two months ago. I well repost for you.

Big surprise:D: Island packet is going to launch a series of performance cruisers. They will be called Blue Jacket line and will be designed by Tim Jackett (ex-President and Chief Designer at Tartan and C&C) in collaboration with Bob Johnson (CEO and Chief Designer at Island Packet).

The first one is already on its way to production and even if in what regards cabin design I find the boat too classic, not to say old fashioned, in what regards hull design and technical characteristics I love the boat.

Well, the keel could be more modern and efficient (it is similar to the one on my boat) but in what regards all the rest it looks perfect to me. In fact it is very close to the Comet 41s in what regards weight, ballast and hull design. It fits on the Italian way of looking to performance cruisers.

A relatively narrow boat with a good B/D a deep draft (2.30) and a big stability that is the opposite in design conception of the also new Tartan(and the CC121). I like a lot more this one;).

Well, there are some things I don't like: The traveler over the cabin and only one winch on each side of the cockpit that will have to be used for the mainsail and the genoa, but I believe that could be changed if clients ask otherwise.

Technical Characteristics
LOA: 39' 10" (12.14 m)
LWL: 35' 0" (10.67 m)
BEAM: 12' 4" (3.76 m)
DRAFT: 7' 5" (2.29 m) deep
5' 2" (1.56 m) shoal
DISP: 16, 500 lbs (7,484 kg)
BALLAST: 6, 100 lbs (2,767 kg) deep
SAIL AREA: 883 sq ft (82.03 sq m) (100% FT)
MAST HEIGHT: 62' 6" (19.05 m)
POWER: 40 HP (30 kW)
FUEL: 40 US gal (151 l)
WATER: 110 US gal (417 l)
WASTE: 25 US gal (80 l)
SA/D: 21.8
D/L: 172
DESIGNER: Tim Jackett w/Bob Johnson, N.A.



















They say about the boat:

Sailplan and rig:
The large sailplan is a further refinement of the Solent style rig featuring standard double head sails with a working jib and a lightweight 150% reacher that mounts on the integral bow prod, both furled with Harken® systems. The working jib is fitted with a carbon fiber Hoyt Boom® that is self-tending and improves performance with its close sheeting and self-vanging feature while the large reacher boosts performance in light air or when off the wind. The fully battened mainsail is equipped with a standard electric halyard winch and a low friction Battcar system and drops easily into a carbon fiber pocket boom with an integral cover and lazy jack system.

This easily managed rig has ample horsepower and versatility for optimizing performance in a wide range of conditions. All sheets lead to the cockpit near the helm and primary winches for short-handed convenience.
On deck:
On deck, anchor handling has been simplified and made especially convenient with a cleverly designed roller recessed in the bow prod providing secure stowage of the anchor and directing the rode to the anchor locker with a (optional) below deck electric windlass that keeps the deck and profile uncluttered. A deck hatch gives access to this area. Wide side decks with full length raised bulwarks, double lifelines, bow and stern rails and cabin top handrails provide security on deck.

The large cockpit has deep coamings, long seats and twin helm stations with great visibility and ready access to all sail control lines. Seat hatches provide access to storage areas and a (optional) central drop-leaf table makes for a great social area. Hinged transom doors open to the integral stern platform with a retractable swim ladder under a central hatch.

Materials used:
The Blue Jacket's hull and deck are made with a state of the art vacuum infusion process utilizing 100% vinylester resin, quadraxial knitted E-glass reinforcements and a structural foam core. The end result is superior strength and stiffness with significantly reduced weight compared to conventional laminates. …

The use of premium structural foam coring produces better interlaminar bond properties with freedom from potential core deterioration compared to other choices and allows for an industry-best extended hull and deck warranty.


http://www.bluejacketyachts.com/

..
Regards

Paulo
 
#3,142 ·
Hi Faster,
That is a nice boat for a family, even a couple that likes to enjoy everything but bluewater cruising, very nice for that. What I love most is that the company advertises the boat for exactly what it is,'Delightful enviroment for family vacations and over night getaways.' I respect a company that sell its product truthfully. Unlike the one that was discussed earlier that claimed their boat was for serious cruisers when in fact it was probably far less sturdy than the Bluejacket.
 
#3,144 · (Edited)
Bluejacket 40

Hi Faster,
... What I love most is that the company advertises the boat for exactly what it is,'Delightful enviroment for family vacations and over night getaways.' I respect a company that sell its product truthfully. Unlike the one that was discussed earlier that claimed their boat was for serious cruisers when in fact it was probably far less sturdy than the Bluejacket.
I don't know where you read that but on the Design brief Tim jacket says this is a cruiser/racer able to be raced competitively around the buoys and in offshore races and that as a cruising boat it will be comfortable and easy. One can assume in coastal and Offshore conditions since this is also an Offshore racer and therefore an offshore cruiser when used that way.

This is not certainly a weekend cruiser and if it was advertised as that it was wrongly advertised. This boat has a overall good stability and a cruising interior that will support extensive cruising having not any problem in sailing offshore and crossing oceans. The boat has a water capacity of over 400L and the 150L of fuel will not be a problem since this is a boat that needs very little wind to sail and the water will be good for at least three weeks, I mean with a couple and you can always install an watermaker if needed. I have seen many circumnavigating with ease in boats with far less capacity in what regards tankage/storage and seaworthiness.

Well, it would not be indicated for extensive cruising with two couples, but with a couple (or one with kids) I don't see any problem and it would be the type of boat that I would choose for coastal sailing and occasionally cross an ocean or two;)

I guess that if they advertise it like that it is because it does not make much sense that the builder of an old designed and anachronistic boat like the Island Packet joins on his line a modern performance cruiser. People would just ask:

An Interview with Tim Jackett and Bob Johnson:...

Q: Bob, given Island Packet's successful 33 year track record with over 2,500 yachts built and sailing in all corners of the world, how do you see the Island Packet line evolving, and what impact might the Blue Jacket series have on future Island Packets?

A: (BJ) Wow…give me a crystal ball! I guess I'd respond by first saying the "design brief" for Island Packet will almost certainly remain unchanged, with its focus continuing to be on seakeeping, safety, livability and ease of handling for a cruising couple. Different manufacturing technologies (infused composite hulls and decks, carbon fiber components, etc.) introduced with the Blue Jacket line may eventually find their way into Island Packet construction if deemed appropriate, but the two product lines address different market segments with different sets of priorities.

I certainly would prefer to go offshore or cross an ocean on the Bluejacket than on a 40ft Island Packet, seaworthiness and sea motion included:D and I am sure I am not the only one that think that way.

But he is right saying that the old shoe is addressed to other type of sailors:rolleyes:

Regards

Paulo
 
#3,145 · (Edited)
I read that on the Bluejacket website. I'm not saying you can't cross oceans in this boat because it is a nice boat and seaworthy. But I believe that Island Packet used accurate words describing their boat. The Bluejacket 40 would be a great boat for taking the family down to the caribbean from the southern USA for the winter. But with only 40 gallons of fuel making full ocean passages seems not all that practical to me. After many ocean passages over forty years I like the idea now of being able to motor if needed for at least 800 miles. Tonga to NZ is a good example where there are some passages where a stationary high pressure was right in the middle of the passage. Everyone no matter how romantic about sailing would like to be able to get to NZ as fast as possible before the next nasty weather shows up. I have done it with 10 gallons of fuel and did not mind because that is what we had on board. But I'm wiser now and if you are lucky enough to be able to have a cruising boat with lots of fuel you should. I would own the Bluejacket if we decided to stay in Mexico and sail the Sea of Cortez where distance for fuel is not a problem.

I always wanted a Hinckley SWester but now I realize they were made with the New Englander in mind for two week cruises and trips down south, little fuel and water for trips across the Pacific and the Indian Ocean, but they could do it, that's for sure.

Cheers.
 
#3,146 · (Edited)
Cruising Styles and different pleasures.

I read that on the Bluejacket website. I'm not saying you can't cross oceans in this boat because it is a nice boat and seaworthy. But I believe that Island Packet used accurate words describing their boat. The Bluejacket 40 would be a great boat for taking the family down to the caribbean from the southern USA for the winter. But with only 40 gallons of fuel making full ocean passages seems not all that practical to me. After many ocean passages over forty years I like the idea now of being able to motor if needed for at least 800 miles. Tonga to NZ is a good example where there are some passages where a stationary high pressure was right in the middle of the passage. Everyone no matter how romantic about sailing would like to be able to get to NZ as fast as possible before the next nasty weather shows up. I have done it with 10 gallons of fuel and did not mind because that is what we had on board. But I'm wiser now and if you are lucky enough to be able to have a cruising boat with lots of fuel you should. I would own the Bluejacket if we decided to stay in Mexico and sail the Sea of Cortez where distance for fuel is not a problem.

I always wanted a Hinckley SWester but now I realize they were made with the New Englander in mind for two week cruises and trips down south, little fuel and water for trips across the Pacific and the Indian Ocean, but they could do it, that's for sure.

Cheers.
Well, some would think that regarding what you say this is the better boat for offshore cruising or to circumnavigate:



I knew once a guy that circumnavigated solo without any problem on a 33ft sailboat without any engine. That was back in the first years of the 80's and the boat was heavy and not particularly fast (the Bluejacket is much faster and sail with much less wind). He was not a poor guy, he was a sailing instructor, a great sailor and didn't need or want any engine.

Almost 10 years ago I remember a member of this forum that sailed from US to Australia on a 40ft fast J boat with much less fuel tankage than the one the Bluejacket has. At the time that make me some confusion and I asked how mach fuel he had wasted. I don't remember the right numbers but it was ridiculously little, less than half the tankage that if I remember rightly was 90L. He used that mostly for charging the batteries....and its average speed was awesome too (I don't remember the number but I know I was impressed and I am not easily impressed).

The type of boat you favor is a better sailer than the Nordhaven, by a large margin but also by a large margin is a worse sailer than the Bluejacket. I am not referring to seaworthiness or storage but simply to speed and most of all the amount of wind needed to sail. While the Bluejacket will probably make with a Geenaker 4K speed with 4K wind your boat would be almost dead on the water. That makes for a lot of fuel;)

Note that I don't defend on this thread any type of boat over another. There are sailors for all of them. Neither I try to impose my personal tastes to other sailors, but describing a boat like the Bluejacket 40 has a boat for "over night getaways" is ridiculous and inappropriate. That would be a description that would fit in another beautiful american sailing boat, the Morris 36 classic:



Regarding circumnavigating and the boat different kind of sailors would chose to do it, we are following the circumnavigation of a French Young couple, both very experienced sailors, that have chosen a boat with even less storage or tankage than the Bluejacket. They are having a great time, have not any problem and love their boat, a Fox 10.20: a small and fast performance cruiser



Regards

Paulo
 
#3,147 ·
Again as far as the bluejacket 40 goes and what the company says on its website, " The Bluejacket 40 is a delightful enviroment for family vacations and overnight getaways as well as racing around bouys." I just think the company is being honest. But don't get me wrong the Bluejacket 40 can sail anywhere a sailor wants to take it.

As far as the young French couple go in their Fox, I congratulate them they are out there in a great boat and enjoying life. I wish more young people could do the same instead of having to work their butt of just to make ends meet. Remember, "Life is not a practice run it is the real thing." My wife and I in our 60's now enjoy being in the same anchorages as the young. We still think young but I can't surf 15 foot hollow waves anymore. That explains who we have become and out of senseability. The point is there are many more of us in our 50's and 60's out sailing oceans and we have different needs. If I was 28 years old I would want a Pogo or a Fox because they are great boats and affordable. But in our old age we are wise enough and experienced enough to understand we want things like motoring through a high pressure with no wind if it looks like there is bad weather on the way. We will sail our new boat until she will not sail because there is no wind but I then turn the engine on for how many hours it takes to find wind. And believe me we are not in a hurry just want to be prudent.

As far as those who sail without an engine aboard, they are few and are very romantic or just never had the money to get a boat with an engine. Nothing wrong with that remember that's what I did at 22 years of age.

We picked our new boat because we are lucky to be able to afford it. We wanted to do something new and exciting. We could have gone out and bought an old valiant or a mason 44 like we had before or a new Oyster. but the idea of a more modern design was our desire. We could have gone out and bought a Fox, a Pogo or a Bluejacket40, we like them but they just did not fit our needs for a bluewater cruiser. We now on our new boat coming have good speed, tankage, comfort and safety and the ability to go to atolls all over the world and jungle rivers of S. America or Borneo and on our terms. That is what fit our needs to enjoy our last bluewater boat. I think the majority of Bluewater cruisers wish if they could have it would like something a little more than the BlueJacket 40. Mind you not that much more.
Cheers
 
#3,148 · (Edited)
Long range cruising and sailboat preferences.

Again as far as the bluejacket 40 goes and what the company says on its website, " The Bluejacket 40 is a delightful enviroment for family vacations and overnight getaways as well as racing around bouys." ....

I think the majority of Bluewater cruisers wish if they could have it would like something a little more than the BlueJacket 40. Mind you not that much more.
Cheers
More important than whatever the message the company that is making and selling the boat want to pass is what the boat was designed for and the one that knows about that is the one that had designed it, Tim Jackett and he says about it: The design challenge presented was to create a yacht with a performance pedigree, one that could compete effectively in around-the-buoy and offshore races yet provide a level of comfort, build quality and ease of use that would gratify the entire family.

I know enough of sailingboats to recognize what they are made for in what regards cruising and racing and I am quite sure that describing Bluejacket sailing cruising program as a boat particularly suited for "overnight getaways" makes as sense as describing a Hunter 40 as a boat specially suited for bluewater cruising:D. Brands can say what they want to sell the boats, we would be fools if we believed in all what they say;)

Regarding bluewater cruisers wanting something more than the BlueJacket, it all depends on the cruisers. Some would want a smaller boat, others a bigger boat and the ones that would want a bigger would not want necessarily an aluminium centerboarder. Some would want an heavier fiberglass boat like an Amel, others would want a faster and lighter one like a Pogo 50, others would want a even faster ocean cat like the Outremer 49.

Personally If I was going to circumnavigate I would not chose a boat not bigger than 40ft, I would chose a light boat easy to maintain, easy to sail solo (with small sails), stable, and that would sail with very light winds. I guess that a JPK 38 with a swing keel would be a possible choice. I find the Pogo 12.50 already too big to be sailed solo comfortably, and solo because if I do that there is no way I could bring my wife alone. She likes to do coastal cruise but simply is not interested to be 15 days in a boat without going to shore, and by the way I have almost 60 years old but like to sail fast and get bored in a slow boat;) and I am not the only one, I mean "old" sailors that like to cruise while enjoying sailing fast.

Each case is a case, sailors are different and that's why there are so many different type of boats designed for bluewater cruising and voyaging. As an example look at the difference in cruising style and sailing between the bigger sister of your boat, an Aluminium Boreal 50, a Pogo 50 or an Outremer 49. All are designed having in mind long distance cruising, but how different can they be? As different as the type of sailors that will prefer each one, and that has nothing to do with age;)

The Boréals are aluminium sailing yachts with a centerboard, designed for long offshore voyaging.
- This means that the approach is totally different from a 'holiday' cruising boat
- built in aluminium (which, whilst not an absolute necessity for long voyages, remains the best choice of material)
- with a centerboard inside a keel box.

Introduction

Like its siblings in the Pogo range, the Pogo 50 is tailored for fast cruising : it is light, wide, and features a deep (lifting !) draft and generous sail area. Its speed and its seaworthiness put far, far away shores within reach ! Its shallow draft, once the keel is up, allows access to all little paradisiac coves. Its lean deck plan and large cockpit make it the ideal boat at the mooring.
Pogo 50 | finot-conq architectes navals

Go fast, go far, enjoy yourself
The Outremers were created from a solid concept: the design and build of catamarans which are all seaworthy, fast and simple. ...Seaworthy, to be free to go anywhere. Seaworthy means to favour security. ...Fast for both safety and the sensations.
Speed is an element of safety and comfort. When facing a particular weather scenario, the average speeds our boats are capable of, allow routes which would otherwise be impossible at lower speeds. Speed is a source of pleasure. It is the very essence of sailing.
Since 1984, 200 such craft have sailed all the seas of the globe crewed by couples and families making their dreams a reality.....The majority have sailed far and wide, with numerous circumnavigations of the globe being achieved.

Outremer Catamaran - The Concept

Regards

Paulo
 
#3,149 ·
Vendee Globe

And Voila, Armel given as first doing 17.4K , Jean-Pierre much more South doing 20.9K at only 20.3Nm, François on the same course doing 20.4K at 40.9Nm and Stamm in an intermediate course regarding Armel and Jean-Pierre doing, 20.5K and at 98.8Nm.

Things seem clear now and tomorrow Jean-Pierre will be probably leading, François is going to take more time but probably will pass also Armel and Stamm will be closer also. Armel has not so much pressure but most of all it has a worst wind angle. But they all will be very close and that's what we want:D

Fantastic race!!!

Last night I had said that François Gabart and Jean-Pierre Dick were going probably have record speeds. Here it is the confirmation:

Breaking News:Yesterday, between 11am GMT Thursday 29th to 11am GMT Friday 30th November François Gabart (MACIF), travelled from point to point, 482.91 miles in twenty-four hours, averaging speeds of 20.1 knots. This breaks the record held previously by Alex Thomson in 2003. Confirmation of the record is subject to the WSSRC validation.

Vendée Globe 2012-2013 - Tracking


Day 21 highlights - Friday, November 30, 2012 por VendeeGlobeTV
 
#3,150 · (Edited)
Re: Vendee Globe

....

Things seem clear now and tomorrow Jean-Pierre will be probably leading, François is going to take more time but probably will pass also Armel and Stamm will be closer also. Armel has not so much pressure but most of all it has a worst wind angle. But they all will be very close and that's what we want:D

...
Well, I was 100% right, how coll is that:cool:

Jean-Pierre is leading, making 20.3K and with an advantage of 11.7Nm over Armel that is making 19.7K. That lateral distance has almost disapered and we will have a drag race again:D.

François also recovered to Armel and it is only at 25.7Nm, about the same distance that separated him from Armel when they went for different strategic options. He is making 19.9K, he is close to the same course as Jean-Pierre and have maintained the same distance to Jean-Pierre.

The two big winners of the last days were Jean-Pierre that won 97Nm to Armel, since they went to different strategic options and Stamm that won 85nm to Armel and it is now at 78Nm from Armel. He is sailing in about the same course has Armel and doing 20.1K.

I guess that we have in Stamm an unsuspected Swiss contender for the victory. He was discussing the first places some weeks back, he had big problems, went to the top of his mast with the boat sailing at speed (quite incredibly that), repaired his light geenaker, recovered brilliantly and his back again on the head of the race (4th now). Great sailing, great sailor;)

...
 
#3,157 ·
Dufour 410 Grand Large



















Technical Characteristics:

Dufour 410 Grand Large

LOA: 12,35 m
HL: 11,98 m
LWL: 11,15 m
Beam: 4,20 m
Displ.: 9430 kg
Ball: 2600kg
Draft: 2,10 m
Fuel Tankage: 200 l
Engine: 30 cv
Main: 38 mq
Genoa: 33 mq

.................................................................COMMENTS?

...
I like much of what Dufour has been doing, but even among the recent crop of plumb stemmed boats I find these boats particularly 'boxy' in profile.. not exactly pretty.. I think the sheer must be more parallel to the DWL than most others....
Like in the D36P, I like everything I SEE in the new D410, but it needs to shed weight. Thanks for posting!.
I like the overall design (graphically speaking) even if I prefer boats less beamier. But I understand the concept in what regards to having a more stable platform and a boat that heels less for the average cruiser that wants his boat mostly to sail downwind and will not sail with a head on wind. After all the vast majority of cruisers motor on those conditions, so yes, this boat makes sense. The boat was bettered in that respect in what regards the previous model, the 405. This one is considerably more beamy (4.20 to 3.98m) and has all beam brought back.

This is, as the last Dufour a Felci design so I have no doubt that it is an efficient and well designed boat for what it is intended to do but I fail to understand why the previous boat weighted 8 990kg and this one 9 430kg. Weight certainly is not an advantage and serves no purpose. Maybe the bigger volume of this boat? Anyway I don't like that extra weight.

Like on the previous model I don't like the B/D ratio of this boat, that is on the low side: 27.5%. I know that it is a bit better than the one of the 405 and this boat has more draft (2.10 for 2.03). This two factors and a substantially bigger beam will give it a bigger RM compared with the previous model, but than it is needed because the boat will have more wave drag and more wet area (more heavier).

I did not saw the keel design but I don't believe that it will be less modern than on the previous model and then we are talking about a torpedo keel with all the ballast down. That will give to this boat a sufficient AVS, but I like boats with a bigger part of its stability coming from the ballast. This boat will sail well, I am sure, in almost all conditions, except close against the wind in a blow were the power needed to overcome the waves and the added wave drag will not be probably enough for a good speed. The boat will heel and the ballast will not be able to give him that extra pull to cope well with those conditions.

Other mass productions boats will do better on those conditions.

Regarding the sail area I don't understand also why the previous boat that was 560kg lighter and had less have drag had more sail upwind (81.90m2 to 71.0m2). That is a big difference and hardly understandable since this boat has more RM and can therefore carry more sail.

A jeanneau 409, that has a better B/D ratio (30%), less beam (3.99m) and weights 1980kg less has more 7m2 of sail and I am not talking about the performance version but about the standard one.

I guess the infusion process is responsible for that big weight difference, but I really don't see how the Dufour 410 can compete with the jeanneau 409, that seems just a better sailing boat. I have also looked recently to other boats on this class and remember that the Hanse 415 has a performance almost as good as the one from the Jeanneau.

The Hanse 415 is, in what regards the hull more similar to the Dufour, both boats have a similar beam and the Hanse is even heavier, weighting more 530kg but it has a much better B/D ratio (32.5%), having a bigger RM and carries more 16m2 of sail and that is a lot.

So I guess I don't like very much the Dufour in what likes its general sailing picture.

Regarding the interior it is a bit risky to talk only about designs but I would say that it seems nice, following the general tendency of a polivalent chart table but I don't like the galley. I mean, it seems big enough but will not offer any support for the back, so I guess that on that one if on the sea you will have to tack the boat to the right side, or maybe the boat heels so little than that it would not be necessary, especially because the boat really only heels hard when pressed against the wind and again, the ones that are going to do buy this boat will not do that (or they have chosen the wrong boat) and therefore all is well:D

Regards

Paulo
 
#3,152 ·
I like much of what Dufour has been doing, but even among the recent crop of plumb stemmed boats I find these boats particularly 'boxy' in profile.. not exactly pretty.. I think the sheer must be more parallel to the DWL than most others....
 
#3,160 ·
Vendee Globe.

I don't remember of any year where the competition was so tight:D. This is racing at the most higher level, those guys are given 100% and I have some difficulty in understanding how the 4 first can maintain that rhythm.

Yesterday Armel was leading, then, at the middle of the night, Jean-Pierre took the lead and now is François that is leading again after having been 3th for a week or so. Incredible racing:eek:

The three first are separated by 16Nm and the 4th is only at 69Nm from the 3th.

Drag race again for the three fist that are sailing at almost 20k and sommer will be sailing faster then that. Some strong winds ahead;)

Vendée Globe 2012-2013 - Tracking

The story of the day, Le Cam dived to free is boat from a net:

Jean Le Cam (SynerCiel) realised last night that he was slowing down and that all was not well with his Bruce Farr designed Open 60. After a thorough examination of his boat, and asking himself many questions about the set up, he realised that his problem was below the waterline. The following morning, he checked under his hull and realised a fishing net was stuck around his lower part of his keel.

After three failed attempts to get rid of the net by moving his boat, the SynerCiel skipper eventually decided that he was left with no choice but to dive under it, which took around thirty minutes at 10am GMT this morning. He stopped the boat, put on his scuba diving equipment and took his knife with him. Everything went well and SynerCiel is now back in the race.

At midday, Jean Le Cam called his team and explained: "After trying everything I could to get rid of that net, I had no choice, I had to dive. I geared up, stopped the boat, and went for it. At first I tried to cut it all at once but it just wasn't working. I said to myself 's**t, that's not good'. So I cut one part after the other and it worked out. It was a huge net!"

Despite being born to sail Jean Le Cam, nicknamed 'Le Roi Jean', or King Jean, does not like swimming at all, so it was very grumpy King that was forced to make like a rebellious fish, and cut himself free of the net today.

The incident has cost him a few miles and a place in the rankings to Mike Golding but he is now back in action and returns to his the warpath.



Day 23 highlights - Sunday, December 2, 2012 por VendeeGlobeTV
 
#3,164 ·
Short board windsurfing's a huge buzz - deep respect for the guys doing it on big waves - I found small wave sailing a physically challenging pursuit - and that was when I was young & frisky ;) Time on windsurfers did help to refresh my dinghy techniques, in the same way now that time in a Laser helps to refresh the way you helm a 40 footer (even when cruising !) - how many times have you heard from the family "Dad we're not racing this is a family cruising holiday" :rolleyes: I say "thanks for the feedback now just wind the genoa in some more " :D
 
#3,165 · (Edited)
By mistake last night I repeated two movies instead of posting this one. This guy not only sails up big waves as it fly over them...and never stops sailing. Enjoy:)



...a Laser helps to refresh the way you helm a 40 footer (even when cruising !) - how many times have you heard from the family "Dad we're not racing this is a family cruising holiday" :rolleyes: I say "thanks for the feedback now just wind the genoa in some more " :D
I am lucky; even if my wife can say something like that things are balanced and I never heard "Dad we're not racing this is a family cruising holiday" more like "Dad, why are you reefing? Stay on the wheel let me take care of the sails and let's having fun:D". Fact is that I have a problem with the boy (now 21) that since a kid was bored with sailing except when it was going very fast. At the age of 12 if I let him he would stay all night at the wheel with 25/30K winds surfing waves at 10K:D
Even my wife hates to be overtaken by other boats.

Take a look at another movie of that little boat, that I am convinced, it is a great boat, the XP 33.



Of course, they are sailing it with a crew but even so those speeds are impressive for a 33ft mass production performance cruiser:

With 20K wind, upwind speed 6.8/7.2K, downwind speed 14.8K, are speeds that many bigger boats would have difficulty in achieving and in what regards downwind would not achieve at all. There are many boats that are good downwind but few that are fast downwind....and upwind.

Regards

Paulo
 
#3,166 ·
The XP-33 looks like a great production boat package at that size with nice hull lines and generally a simple set-up - almost as if X-boats going one better than J-boats. Will be interesting to see it's IRC rating.

The funny thing about my family is they'll say "we're cruising, relax, it's not a race" followed soon after "why is that other boat going faster than us ? " :)
 
#3,167 ·
Transat classique

Not only fast performance boats owners like to race, the owners of slower but not less beautiful old ladies like that too.

A lot of boats (12) on the the Cascais - Barbuda Panerai Classique Transat.

You can follow the race here:

L

Transat Classique 2012

With 10k wind on the back they are making 6/6.5K speed. Not bad for old ladies;).

 
#3,170 ·
Vendee Globe

Incredible!!!!! Not only Armel is leading again as he is the owner of the new race record for the fastest Open 60 from Les Sables d'Olonne to the Cape of Good Hope.

The leadership should change again quickly because François went South and I think he is in the best position for the next two days. I believe that Stamm that is also diving South has a good chance to continue to close on the leading trio. HOT RACE, do hot that it is just unbelievable :D

Vendée Globe 2012-2013 - Tracking

The Jackal, Armel Le Cléac'h (Banque Populaire) is the new race record holder for the fastest Open 60 from Les Sables d'Olonne to the Cape of Good Hope, clocking a time of 22 days 23 hours 48 minutes and managing to knock an astounding 24 hours 2 hours and 22 minutes off the record set by Vincent Riou in the 2004 edition of the Vendée Globe.

But the leading trio, lead by Armel Le Cléac'h (Banque Populaire) but with Jean-Pierre Dick (Virbac Paprec 3) and François Gabart (MACIF) hot on his tail are engaged in a fight with unusual intensity. It will be recorded in the annals of Vendée Globe history as one of the fiercest charges into the Indian Ocean as the three pretenders shuffle continually up and down the leaderboard each day.


Let's have a look at Axel's race and to an amazing interview in direct for the British TV:eek:


Alex Thomson's race highlights - Week 3 por VendeeGlobeTV
 
This post has been deleted
#3,174 ·
Thanks. If I would make it that way I would make some money with it over paid publicity and that would have me tied to the thing. I sail/cruise 3 or 4 months in a year and I don't want internet or any complication in my live on those periods, so look at this ad just a temporary hobby to me, one that I can leave at any time.

Regards

Paulo
 
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