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Interesting Sailboats

3M views 7K replies 205 participants last post by  tdw 
#1 · (Edited)
Sirius 32, Sirius 35

THE OBJECT OF THIS THREAD:

Interesting sailboats in production and available on the new boat market (only boats with modern designs, meaning that the boats still in production but made with old designs are out). Recent designs out of production are also admissible.

Modern boat designs and modern one off, if interesting.

Classical boats and traditional boats.

Small cruisers (less than 35ft)

Seezunge 27ft: PG1-PT9

Hanse 325: PG19-PT185;

Presto 30 : 33-326; 33-327; 34-331; 34-333; 55-543; 55-544;

Tess Yachts: 37-366; 38-373;

Tess 28 Magnum: 37-369; 38-371;

Delphia 28: 38-373;

Vancouver 27/28 : 42-412; 72-717;

Cruisers between 35ft and 49ft


Catalina 355 : 31-306;

RM sailboats: PG5-PT41; 5-42

RM1050: PG5-PT46; 5-47; 5-48;

RM 1060: PG8-PT77; 8-78; 8-79; 8-80; 9-81; 30-295; 40-400; 79-786;

RM 1200: PG9-PT84; 9-85; 19-184; 20-191; 20-192; 41-404; 42-414; 42-418; 43-425; 43-426; 69-688;

RM 1350: PG9-PT82; 55-549; 95-943;

Morris Yachts: PG7-PT61

Bavaria 36: PG19-PT188; 19-190; 20-196;

Bavaria 40: PG10-PT95; 28-278; 29-281; 29-282; 29-283; 29-286; 32-316; 36-356; 51-502; 51-507; 52-518; 53-527; 53-532;

Bavaria 40s: 69-685; 78-775;

Bavaria 45: PG10-PT96; 19-190;

Rustler Yachts: PG11-PT104;

Jeanneau 409: PG11-PT103: 11-106; 30-298; 30-299; 36-356; 51-502; 51-504; 51-505; 51-509; 52-513; 52-514; 52-515; 52-516; 53-527; 54-532; 57-564; 57-570; 58-571; 58-580; 59-581; 59-583; 59-585; 62-614; 74-739; 91-906;

Jeanneau 439: 40-396; 40-397; 59-584; 59-585; 96-956;

Hanse Yachts: 16-154; 16-156; 16-158;

Hanse 400: 81-804;

Bluewater cruising yachts: 21-206

Beneteau Oceanis 37 : 31-306; 31-308; 31-309; 32-314; 55-541;

XC 38: 36-356; 96-954;

Diva 38: 39-386;

Diva 35: 40-391;

Dufour 405: 62-614;

Defline 43: 63-622

Walkabout 43: 93-923; 93-925; 93-927;

Small performance cruisers (less than 35ft)


Performance 32ft test: 29-87;

Sun Fast 3200: PG4-PT33; 4-34; 4-36; 30-293;

Elan 210: 70-691; 70-696; 78-779; 79-781;

Elan 310: PC7-PT64; 7-69; 8-71; 36-356; 41-408;

Quest 33: PG7-PT62

Olea 32: 25-243; 25-245;

First 27.7: 38-373; 38-380; 39-382;

First 30: 30-295; 39-356; 41-408; 55-545; 55-546;

Comet 26: 34-340; 35-345; 35-350; 36-353;

Pacer 30: 36-357;

Django 7.7: 40-399;

Vivace/Evosion 34: 45-442; 45-446; 45-445; 45-446; 45-447; 45-448; 45-449; 45-450; 46-458; 46-460;

Finn Flyer 34: 46-451; 46-453; 60-593;

Salona 34: 46-457;

Heol 7.4: 63-621; 63-622;

Azuree 33: 87-867; 91-902; 91-904;

JPK 10.10: 88-877 ; 88-880; 89-883;

Performance cruisers (between 35ft and 49ft)

Pogo 10.50: PG2-PT20; 3-27; 3-28; 3-30; 4-35; 5-50; 6-51; 6-52; 6-60; 11-101; 11-107; 11-110; 43-425; 44-440; 87-861; 87-867;

Pogo 12.50: PG13-PT125; 20-198; 20-199; 22-214; 27-264; 27-265; 27-269; 32-317; 32-319; 43-425; 43-426; 43-428; 44-432; 44-437; 44-439; 55-546; 55-547; 82-812; 84-831; 87-870;

Este 40: 89-890; 90-893; 90-899;

A35: PG5-PT42; 5-44; 66-660;

A40RC: 92-914;

Hammerhead 35: 64-645

Opium 39: PG5-PT42; 9-85; 9-89; 13-125; 22-220; 22-221; 43-426; 55-547; 86-857;

Aerodyne 35: PG7-PT62

Elan 350: PG7-PT64; 13-24; 13-126; 13-127; 13-128; 14-132; 18-178; 26-255; 36-356; 40-398; 41-405; 57-564; 59-589; 60-591; 72-711; 73-724; 74-738;

Elan 380: 23-223; 25-249; 26-256; 40-398; 59-589; 97-962;

Elan 410: 32-316; 79-784;

JPK 110: PG9-PT85; 10-91

Olea 44: PG10-PT100; 27-268;

Olea Yachts: 25-247;

Dufour 40e: Pg13-Pt125; 32-316; 55-547; 56-558; 56-559; 57-561; 57-562; 57-563; 59-586; 59-588,

Salona 37: 36-359; 41-406;

Salona 41: PG15-PT141; 15-145; 32-316; 36-356; 40-398; 54-538; 57-569; 78-778; 80-796; 80-798; 97-965;

Salona 42: PG15-PT145; 36-359; 40-398; 93-929; 94-932;

Cigale 16: PG15-PT148; 16-152; 17-161; 55-549; 63-625;

Cigale 14: PG17-PT163; 55-549;

Santa Cruz 43: PG17-PT169

Sydney Yachts: PG18-PT171; 18-175;

Sydney GTS 37: 43-423;

Sydney GTS 43: PG18-PT173;

Winner 12.20: PG20-193;

First 40: 31-304; 32-313; 32-316; 35-344; 36-354; 55-546; 55-547;

First 35: 36-356

Dehler 41: 30-296;

Dehler 44: 79-785;

Dehler 45: 36-356; 79-785;

Luffe 40.04: 30-300; 31-301; 31-303;

XP 38: 56-533; 56-544; 56-555; 67-622;

XP 44: 33-325;

Pacer 430: 36-357;

Pacer 376: 36-357; 66-652; 69-683;

Faurby 424: 36-360; 37-361; 37-363; 37-365;

Comfortina 39: 40-395;

J 133: 43-426; 63-620

J 111: 100-993;

Maxi 11: 99-982;

Arcona yachts: 46-456;

Arcona 410: 47-467; 47-468; 47-469; 48-471;

Arcona 430: 48-472;

Arcona 460: 50-495

Finngulf yachts: 46-456;

Varianta 44: 60-594; 60-595; 60-596; 60-597; 60-598; 64-639;

Imagine 53: 63-628;

Zou 40.2: 63-620

Ker 39: 68-676;

Finn-Flyer 42: 77-762;

Azuree 40: 85-842;

Loft 40: 85-848; 85-852;

Vivace 35: 90-895;

Sailing boats over 49ft

Zeydon 60 : PG 12-119;

JP 54: PG18-PT172;

Salona 60: 70-695;

Stadships: PG20-PT193; 20-195;

Pogo 50: 32-318; 32-319;

X-50: 54-537;

Murtic 52: 54-537;

Decksaloons and pilot house sailing boats

Sirius 32: PG1-PT1

Sirius 35: PG1-PT1; 1-10; 2-18; 50-491; 50-492; 60-559; 60-599;

Sirius 31: PG1-PT5; 2-17; 36-356;

Regina 35: 48-478;

Regina 40: PG11-PT104; 49-481; 49-483;

Southerly yachts: PG11-PT104;

Luffe 43DS: PG12-PT111; 12-115; 50-494;

Noordkaper 40: PG14-pt139;

Noordkaper yachts: PG16-PT155

Nordship 36: 30-297; 49-482;

Nordship 38: 49-482; 49-490;

Paulo's pilot house I: 38-376; 39-381; 39-383; 39-384;

Paulo's pilot house II: 69-682

Lyman & Morse 45: 38-379;

CR 38DS: 48-477; 48-478;

CR 40DS: 48-476; 48-478; 48-479; 50-494; 50-496; 50-497; 50-498;

Arcona 40DS: 50-494;

Racers

Figaro 2:pG4-PT36; 4-37; 5-42; 6-52; 6-53; 6-55; 6-56

VOR 70: PG16-PT160; 17-187

Farr 400: 67-661

Soto 40: 96-952;

Lifting keel/centerboarder

Southerly yachts: PG11-PT104;

Allures 45: PG10-PT93; 100-996;

Allures yachts: 25-248;

OVNI 425: 23-228;

OVNI 395 : 68-679; 69-690;

J 108: 67-661

Atlantic 43: 68-67

Boreal 44: 97-970; 98-974;

Multihulls till 34ft

Several Trimarans: 28-273;

Multihulls with 34ft and over

Dragonfly yachts: 26-257;

Dragonfly 35: 26-258; 27-261; 27-262;

Dragonfly 1200: 56-551;

Corsair 37: 28-276;

Farrier 39: 28-277;

Challenge 37: 28-278

Hammerhead 34: 29-385;

Hammerhead 54: 29-288; 30-292;

Trimax 10.80: 29-285;

Sig 45: 54-534; 54-539; 54-540;

Gunboat: 56-551

Fusion: 56-551;

Outremer: 56-551;

Tournier: 56-511;

Classical and Traditional boats

Jclass boats: 54-537;

Tofinou 12: 71-703;

Folck boat: 73-727;

Puffin Yachts: PG14-PT135; 14-138; 16-155;

Bestwind 50: PG12-PT116; 14-123;

Bestevaer 53: PG12-PT116;

Bestevaer yachts: PG16-PT155

Cape George 36: 41-410; 42-412;

Marieholm 33 : 42-412;

This list is not actualized. Please use the advanced search engine of the thread with the name of the model and builder. It works, most of the time.

(actualized till PG100) and it will be no more because that gives a lot of work (500 pages now).

Instead I am actualizing the titles and with the right title the thread search engine (not the one on the top of the page bit the one much below that says search thread) on its advanced option works quite well.

Hello,

Melrna posts on Miami Boat show and the comments of Smackdady about the interest of that thread lead me to think that perhaps I could share more information about sailboats I know and find interesting.

I am interested in boat design (interior and sailing performance) and I go each year at least to one of the main European Boat shows and that means basically Dusseldorf, Paris or Hamburg. On these shows you have the opportunity not only to visit the boats of the main and medium size builders but you have also the opportunity to visit the boats of small and sometime family shipyards.

Normally they build very good sailboats and sometimes they have been doing that for decades. The boats are hugely appreciated by their faithful customers but because they don't advertise their boats and there are very few on the used boat market, they pass unnoticed by the majority of the sail community.

The visit to these boats is a very rewarding experience because they are made with passion by true boat lovers and because when you talk to the guy that is on the boat, you are not talking with a dealer, that many times doesn't know much about boats, but with the builder, or the designer.

Even if you are not a buyer they will have real pleasure in talking with someone that really appreciates and understands their work. Those guys really believe in what they are doing and they do it the best way they can, no matter the cost. In a word, they are in love with what they are doing.
Of course, these boats have to be expensive.

This thread will be mainly about these boats, as a way of letting you know about these gems. Let's see if you are interested. I will not post much. If you want to know more you have just to participate and make questions.

The first one it will be the "Sirius". I have had the pleasure to visit several times their boats and to talk with the builders (father and son).

These boats have the best interiors you can find, or at least that I have seen. Not only the quality, but the design and ergonomy are fantastic. You really won't believe you are in a 32ft boat. Just incredible and amazing; Have a look at it:

Sirius-Werft Plön | Forecabin | 32 DS for 2 forecabin
Sirius-Werft Plön | Owner´s cabin | 32 DS 4-berth comfort owner´s cabin
Sirius-Werft Plön | Workshop | 32 DS for 2 workshop

Now that the son is in charge they have modernized the outside look of the new boats, they look fantastic not only inside but also outside. The boats sail well and they have clients as far as Japan.

Sirius-Werft Plön | Versions of decks house | You have the choice

Another interesting point is the way they develop new boats. They work with the clients to collect suggestions on the shape and design of the boats. A truly interesting affair, between passionate clients and passionate builders.

Sirius-Werft Plön | 35 DS | Philosophy

Take a good look at their interesting site and if you find the boat interesting, please let me know, I can add some information.

Sirius-Werft Plön | english | Welcome at website of Sirius-Werft Plön

Regards

Paulo
 
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#4,571 ·
Re: Oceanis 38

Why won't we ever have exhilarating, choppy seas on videos and tests? This video is counterproductive, in my opinion. Now I see what was a potentially interesting boat as a "sissy boat", totally lame, delicate, unfit for a potential "real" ocean situation. If this video shows what Beneteaus are made FOR today, they better come up with some real hardcore stuff soon, and have the build quality behind it.
 
#4,572 ·
Re: Oceanis 38

Why won't we ever have exhilarating, choppy seas on videos and tests? This video is counterproductive, in my opinion. Now I see what was a potentially interesting boat as a "sissy boat", totally lame, delicate, unfit for a potential "real" ocean situation. If this video shows what Beneteaus are made FOR today, they better come up with some real hardcore stuff soon, and have the build quality behind it.
HMoll - But clearly you are not in the target market for the Oceanis 38, which is why the advertisement doesn't appeal to you. Based on what you are saying, you would more likely gravitate toward the Beneteau First line of performance cruisers, like the First 35 or First 40. The advertising for those boats would include video footage of the Fastnet Race and the Sydney-Hobart Race, featuring interpid men sailing upwind in 30 knots. :D

To be honest, I've seen the marketing videos for the First line and they're very similar to the Oceanis video, only with a bit more realistic sailing in them. But people like us are not influenced by videos, so Beneteau doesn't bother.

Best,
 
#4,575 · (Edited)
Oceanis 38

My wife likes going upwind - and still picked the Oceanis 38 as the boat of the show in the in water boat show at Hallberg-Rassy in August :) And I guess the video did not harm that picture in any way.

We have discussed the boat before and I still think we should look at this boat with open eyes. Despite very small sail area and bad sails the boat sailed well when I made a brief test in light winds. The same noted Seil-magazine from Norway in their short review of exactly the same boat, as did Swedish magazine testers.

I think hull is interesting, B/D-ratio very similar to many other contemporary designs today, including many of the new, beamy twin-rudder, chined French boats and the Elans, not to mention the other less expensive boats from Bavaria, Hanse etc.

Small rig with bad deckware can rather easy be replaced and retweaked with main sail traveller in cockpit etc. and the arc is perfect for stowing cockpit canopy against, a la Malö-style. At least up here the canopy is a constant problem as beeing too complicated to handle and stove.

Interior wonderful in our opinion. Can be tewaked for your own style. I have for instance through 7 different boats now tried to find a decent saloon layout for 3 persons to watch TV in in comfort but failed so far. Elan 333 from 2003 leading in that deparment still.

And my old Oceanis 40 was as good going to weather, in 25-30 knots of wind and the similar short waves of perhaps 1,5 m as Paulo mentioned from the med, as my previous boat, a very different Dehler 43 CWS. When I test sailed the RM1200 in 2009 it was much worse than the Oceanis. Yes, I know RM 1200 is not a wave piercer either but still twice the price. With twin rudders now on the Oceanis 38 perhaps also the broaching-problem when ower pressed is solved to a big extent.

I totally agree with Curt Gelin, the Swedish memeber in the European yacht Jury: "Beneteau has something nice here - new rig and better hardware and it could be really interesting."

Regards,
Anders
 
#4,577 ·
Re: Oceanis 38

My wife likes going upwind - and still picked the Oceanis 38 as the boat of the show in the in water boat show at Hallberg-Rassy in August :) And I guess the video did not harm that picture in any way.

We have discussed the boat before and I still think we should look at this boat with open eyes. Despite very small sail area and bad sails the boat sailed well when I made a brief test in light winds. The same noted Seil-magazine from Norway in their short review of exactly the same boat, as did Swedish magazine testers.

I think hull is interesting, B/D-ratio very similar to many other contemporary designs today, including many of the new, beamy twin-rudder, chined French boats and the Elans, not to mention the other less expensive boats from Bavaria, Hanse etc.

Small rig with bad deckware can ratherer easy be replaced and retweaked with main sail traveller in cokpit etc. and the arc is perfect for stowing cockpit canopy against, a la Malö-style. At least up here the canopy is a constant problem as beeing to complicated to handle and stove.

Interior wonderful in our opinion. Can be tewaked for your own style. I have for instance through 7 different boats now tried to find decent saloon layout for 3 persons to watch TV in in comfort but failed so far. Elan 333 from 2003 leading in that deparment still.

And my old Oceanis 40 was as good going to weather, in 25-30 knots of wind and the similar short waves of perhaps 1,5 m as Paulo mentioned from the med, as my previous boat, a very different Dehler 43 CWS. When I test sailed the RM1200 in 2009 it was much worse than the Oceanis. Yes, I know RM 1200 is not a wave piercer either but still twice the price. With twin rudders now on the Oceanis 38 perhaps also the broaching-problem when ower pressed is solwed to a big extent.

I totally agree with Curt Gelin, the Swedish memeber in the European yacht Jury: "Beneteau has something nice here - new rig and better hardware and it could be really interesting."

Regards,
Anders
Anders -

Yes, I have to agree with you that just looking at the hull design and interior, the Oceanis 38 is a boat with tremendous potential. As you note, with a more powered-up rig and improved hardware / rigging, this would be a very interesting boat indeed. Mainsheet controls definitely have to come off the arch and into the cockpit somehow, and winches will need upgrading - frankly, I'd be happy without the arch altogether, since its sole function is to get the mainsheet out of the cockpit, so ladies in evening gowns don't trip over it.

But ultimately it is that hull and interior concept that I find appealing, though I will reserve judgment until I have a chance to step aboard at the boat show (whenever that is, since I just missed the one in Newport). :(
 
#4,579 ·
Re: Ac34

While I was in San Francisco last weekend, I had the opportunity to watch several of the AC34 races between OTUSA and ETNZ up close and personal. We were out practicing in the Melges 24 and decided to sail up to the AC starting area, just to the southeast of the Golden Gate Bridge. Being in a Melges 24, we were able to get in quite close to the action, for both the starting sequences and for the weather mark roundings.

Let me say that the spectacle of the big 72's blasting along on their foils is very impressive indeed, and seeing the action on the water is definitely the way to go, at least a few times. Otherwise, I think the racing is actually more enjoyable to watch on a video screen. In many respects, it is like any sport where the action takes place over an extended "playing field" - e.g., F1, cycling, skiing, etc. You get to see a little bit of the action right in front of you, but the rest takes place out of view, so you're not really witnessing "the race" per se.

Unfortunately, we missed the dramatic moment on Saturday when ETNZ nearly flipped the boat. However, we did witness the terrific second race on Sunday where the two boats swapped the lead all the way up the windward leg until ETNZ was able to snatch the lead by getting to the favored starboard gate, with more breeze and better angle on the north side of the course.

The one thing that stands out the most from watchng the boats in person is simply how fast they are going, in both directions. It just doesn't seem possible that boats this large are able to sail this fast and in almost total control - the tacking and gybing, for ETNZ in particular, was flawless, though OTUSA was showing much better form when we saw them than they had in the early races.

Anyway, looks like the Cup is heading to New Zealand, so perhaps we can look forward to something a bit more user-friendly next time around. Would prefer to see smaller boats with more teams and strict crew nationality requirements. No team should be able to call itself "___________Team USA" and have only 1-2 Americans on the boat (unless the boat is a Laser or 49er). :D

Go Kiwis!
 
#4,587 ·
Re: Ac34

....
Unfortunately, we missed the dramatic moment on Saturday when ETNZ nearly flipped the boat. However, we did witness the terrific second race on Sunday where the two boats swapped the lead all the way up the windward leg until ETNZ was able to snatch the lead by getting to the favored starboard gate, with more breeze and better angle on the north side of the course.

.....

Anyway, looks like the Cup is heading to New Zealand, so perhaps we can look forward to something a bit more user-friendly next time around. Would prefer to see smaller boats with more teams and strict crew nationality requirements. No team should be able to call itself "___________Team USA" and have only 1-2 Americans on the boat (unless the boat is a Laser or 49er). :D

Go Kiwis!


Yes, quite impressive. I am not sure that if the Kiwis won the cup they will change the boat. These boats are just the sailing F1 and they should be just that. They also proved that they are able to offer great match racing and a great video spectacle. They are not boring to watch for the general public as the more traditional monohulls were.

Regards

Paulo
 
#4,584 ·
I must say I am surprised how Elan can send a totally naked, not even teak in cockpit, boat to shows and test and on top of it having it 1000 - 1500 kg above "normal" weight.

In the video I was impressed by the clean wake, I guess due to more rocker/higher chines. Speed not that impressive though, they are speaking swedish and norwegian and saying 20 knots of wind and 9,5-9,8 knots of speed with code zero or gennaker. In the end they hit 11, 8 which is nice, though.

Regards,
Anders
 
#4,585 ·
I must say I am surprised how Elan can send a totally naked, not even teak in cockpit, boat to shows and test and on top of it having it 1000 - 1500 kg above "normal" weight.

In the video I was impressed by the clean wake, I guess due to more rocker/higher chines. Speed not that impressive though, they are speaking swedish and norwegian and saying 20 knots of wind and 9,5-9,8 knots of speed with code zero or gennaker. In the end they hit 11, 8 which is nice, though.

Regards,
Anders
Read these articles (in Norwegian) to get some more background.

Fjord Sail gir seg med Elan - SEILmagasinet
Fjord Sail og Elan fortsetter - SEILmagasinet

The short version, the Norwegian distributor resigned from a 15 years cooperation with Elan in February 2013 due to disagreement with Elan on their new boats.

In May 2013 he again started to sell Elan in Norway.
 
#4,593 ·
Thanks!

Thanks for the nice words about this thread.

What keeps me going is you guys.

Around this thread and posting in it there are a lot of interesting sailors that sail new boats or have a lot of experience in several types of recent boats. Nice to have all your contributions that makes for a great thread and increase my knowledge on new boats and their comparative performance.

Thank you all!:)
 
#4,595 ·
out again!

I am posting from a restaurant in an incredible place in Sicily (last post was 500NM back), Cape Tindary, Laghetto de Marinello). Very nice shelter and a lovely place.

Next I will sail to Rome trough the Islands (Eolian Islands, Ponza) so I will be out again for more than a week and till middle of October my participation will be reduced but that seems not to be a problem to the thread due to your
contribution. Thanks again, it is being really nice to read your posts.

Regards to all

Paulo
 
#4,596 ·
Re: out again!

I am posting from a restaurant in an incredible place in Sicily (last post was 500NM back), Cape Tindary, Laghetto de Marinello). Very nice shelter and a lovely place.

Next I will sail to Rome trough the Islands (Eolian Islands, Ponza) so I will be out again for more than a week and till middle of October my participation will be reduced but that seems not to be a problem to the thread due to your
contribution. Thanks again, it is being really nice to read your posts.

Regards to all

Paulo
Have a nice cruise. We are also out 3-4 days per week for some more weeks. Wonderful weather still, sailed downwind yesterday north of Gothenbourg, in 8-12 knots of wind and all crew was sun bathing on foredeck.

Regards,
Anders
 
#4,603 ·
Oceanis 38

German Yacht tested the Oceanis 38 in the last issue. Seldom have they given a test so many pages and so early in the magazine. Unfortunately only 8 knots of wind. They where in general very positive. Remark, also the arc is an option and boom can be sheeted to cockpit floor if wanted. The new 31 and 34 willbe similar. Next year also a swing keel version will be sold.

Regards,
Anders
 
#4,607 · (Edited)
Oceanis 38

German Yacht tested the Oceanis 38 in the last issue. Seldom have they given a test so many pages and so early in the magazine. Unfortunately only 8 knots of wind. They where in general very positive. Remark, also the arc is an option and boom can be sheeted to cockpit floor if wanted. The new 31 and 34 willbe similar. Next year also a swing keel version will be sold.

Regards,
Anders
Yacht recorded 6,8 knots at 90 degree and TWS 8 knots and 5,9 knots at 45 degrees. Pretty good at that wind speed.

Regards,
Anders
Yes, it is strange that Pogo, RM, Archambault and Elan, among others, still all have a 1050/1060 and then a 1200 or similar. Why not the very popular size 38 feet/11-1150? Only JKP 38 in there.

Regards,
Anders
Yes, not bad for a mass market boat. A 38ft performance cruiser would be considerably faster. Have a look at this test on the Salona 38 (Voile and voiliers), with one less knot of wind the Salona makes the same speed at 45 degrees and one knot of wind on that range (6/8K) is a lot, I mean the boat will go almost 1K faster with that extra knot of wind.

http://www.salonayachts.com/documents/Voiles et voilers-11-2011.pdf

By the way the Salona 38 has won its first major race in Helsinki. The second was a Salona 37:D

Ranking 2013

Regarding boats with 38ft the French have not many but the Italian have plenty, starting by the Comet 38 that had a great performance on the last ORCI world championship.

http://www.comaryachts.it/images/Boats/CY Fare Vela 10 08 n.1.PDF

Comet 38 and Salona 38 will have a close performance but one far better than the Oceanis 38.

Regards

Paulo
 
#4,615 ·
Premier 45

I had already talked about this design by Botin and Carkeek with exterior Styling by Harry Miesbauerand and Interior design concept by Snohetta. It was for me the wow boat of the last Dusseldorf boat show, the one that put me dreaming: if I was a rich man..;)

The boat is not as naked as a Pogo (I could live with this one) I would say Zen style and the specifications looked perfect to me: The boat is average in what regards beam ( 4.15m) -for instance a much smaller Hanse 415 has 4.17m - but is hugely stiff, with 41% of B/D, considering a draft of 2.75m and a high profile torpedo keel. The draft is not a problem because the keel lifts in only 20 seconds to a very convenient cruising draft of 1.85m.

The boat is made with high tech materials and weights only 8000kg and that means that it does not need a big sail area to go very fast, in fact the boat has an upwind sail area similar to my boat (Comet 41) but can carry downwind an huge sail area: 260m2

The Premier 45 was tested recently by Yacht de and I was not surprised with their very flattering comments...it just confirms that Wow impression on Dusseldorf. They said:

"Elaborately built like a racer, comfortably equipped as a cruiser: The Premier 45 ideally combines the best of both worlds....she sails gorgeous, fast, agile and problem-free with a performance that is easy to access. This makes it a unique design both outside and inside...

The boat has been nominated for the election of European Yacht of the Year and is currently being sailed by the international jury at Southampton."


Premier 45: Charakter und Leistungsbereitschaft - Service*|*YACHT.DE









Marcelino Botin one of the designers comments on the boat:

"We are expecting the Premier 45 to be fast. It is quite a light boat with a hull based on the TP52 concept, with a wide, powerful stern section, but with high stability. But it is a cruiser, very fast for her size. In terms of performance she should excel both upwind and downwind. Upwind you have a good deep keel and plenty of sail area, and downwind she will fly. We expect her to be faster than the typical competition by a big amount.

" And for us as designers, it is great to have a high tech composite cruiser built in the very controlled environment that Premier has. It ensures that the boat comes out close to the design weight, and hence to the performance we expect."
"There are a lot of owners who are looking for this type of boat, a smaller Wally-type yacht with a very minimalist, clean approach."


Premier 45, the ultimate performance cruiser | JEC Composites

You can see more pictures here:

Botin Partners
 
#5,318 · (Edited)
Premier 45 Boat test

The Premier 45 was designed by Botin and Carkeek. Marcelino Botin is also the designer of the fastest 40class racer around, at least if we consider the information from the last transat.

The Premier 45 was recently tested by a British rather conservative magazine (sailing today) and I was very curious about what they would find about a boat that represents the opposite of a conservative view in what regards cruising. Here was what they said:

"The Premier 45 has become the flagship of a relatively small but diverse range of yachts built in Dubai by Premier Composite Technologies. The company has grown from a small, specialist outfit, Speedwave, run in the late 1980s to manufacture components for grand prix yachts. Under German brothers Hannes and Max Waimer, they built the first carbon composite spreaders and rudder for Dennis Conner's Stars & Stripes in 1988.

After a spell in Malaysia when the company was a prolific builder of Farr one designs including the Farr 30 (Mumm 30), Farr 40 and the Farr 52...

Being honest, the Premier 45 is a lot about indulgence. That is where it started out....

Sailing performance

I sailed the boat on the Solent twice during the same day. First time out we had 9 to 13 knots of wind from east-northeast, and a nice little chop. Then in the evening it was more like 7 to 10 knots and warmer.

I was not really quite sure what to expect in terms of performance. Would it be all showroom gloss or all performance, which would require a race crew?

The boat was certainly quick and pretty easy to sail. In its current guise, as tested, it is a boat which will delight the experienced, discerning owner.But it can be detuned slightly more for a more sedate, easier life. So you might spec a mainsail with slightly less aggressive roach if you are sailing more usually in moderate breezes, and with the power controls in place perhaps even an in-boom furling system.

On a beat, the Premier 45 was predictably close-winded, feeling very light and responsive on the helm and tracking positively. We could achieve 7.5 knots at 25° off the apparent wind without too much concentration or trimming required.

Keeping the mainsail leech nicely twisted when the breeze was up allowed us to settle and enjoy the ride. Easing the angles open a little more and we made a speed in the low 8s, rising to about 9 knots with the apparent wind on the beam. The rudder profile will get some further attention as it is perhaps very slightly too aggressive....

Setting the asymmetric gennaker is pretty easy. The retractable carbon bowsprit is controlled by a single outhaul line. We launched the light kite from a sock and were off in seconds towards the upper limit for the sail, making 10 knots and surging to over 11 knots at times with no real hassles and just three on board.

The helm remained light most of the time, very much more akin to a pedigree race boat in its feel. Suffice to say, the all-round sailing performance is sparkling but pleasingly manageable."


Premier 45: Review and test - Sailing Today | Sailing Today

I love the suggestion that the boat should have a furling boom:D

It seems that even if a bit upset they had to say that the boat was not only about showroom gloss and would not require a race crew. Then they talk about the boat being all about indulgence meaning probably that speed and sail pleasure are all about indulgence and they talk about a"toy" and imply that the boat is hugely expensive. In fact this an all carbon boat with a great cruising interior nad costs less than a Halberg Rassy 43 MkII, but there they would probably say that the quality justifies the price...and the HR is not a toy:rolleyes::D

So, do you understand why I said conservative magazine? But even so they took some interesting speed registers:

With between 9 and 13k? or with 7 to 10 knots? and light chopping seas the boat made:

with 25ºAW - 7.5K "without too much concentration or trimming required"

"Easing the angles open a little more and we made a speed in the low 8s, rising to about 9 knots with the apparent wind on the beam. "

Downwind with the asymmetric spinnaker they went at 10K surfing over 11K.

Yes, easy and fast, fun with a great performance upwind and a nice cruising interior this is my type of boat. I can understand that some would prefer an heavy and slower HR 43MKII but I find it amazing this boat being less expensive.

I hope it will make European boat of the year in the performance class. There, on the jury, with the exception of the British representative they are not a conservative lot.

The boat is average in what regards beam ( 4.15m) -for instance a much smaller Hanse 415 has 4.17m - but is hugely stiff, with 41% of B/D, considering a draft of 2.75m and a high profile torpedo keel. The draft is not a problem because the keel lifts in only 20 seconds to a very convenient cruising draft of 1.85m.

It is made with high tech materials and weights only 8000kg and that means that it does not need a big sail area to go very fast, in fact the boat has an upwind sail area similar to my boat (Comet 41) but can carry downwind an huge sail area: 260m2

The Premier 45 was tested recently by Yacht de and I was not surprised with their very flattering comments...it just confirms that Wow impression on Dusseldorf. They said:

"Elaborately built like a racer, comfortably equipped as a cruiser: The Premier 45 ideally combines the best of both worlds....she sails gorgeous, fast, agile and problem-free with a performance that is easy to access. This makes it a unique design both outside and inside...
..."


Premier 45: Charakter und Leistungsbereitschaft - Service*|*YACHT.DE









Marcelino Botin one of the designers comments on the boat:

"We are expecting the Premier 45 to be fast. It is quite a light boat with a hull based on the TP52 concept, with a wide, powerful stern section, but with high stability. But it is a cruiser, very fast for her size. In terms of performance she should excel both upwind and downwind. Upwind you have a good deep keel and plenty of sail area, and downwind she will fly. We expect her to be faster than the typical competition by a big amount.

" And for us as designers, it is great to have a high tech composite cruiser built in the very controlled environment that Premier has. It ensures that the boat comes out close to the design weight, and hence to the performance we expect."
"There are a lot of owners who are looking for this type of boat, a smaller Wally-type yacht with a very minimalist, clean approach."


Premier 45, the ultimate performance cruiser | JEC Composites

You can see more pictures here:

Botin Partners
 
#4,618 ·
Jason Ker 40 class racer

Ker is dominating IRC (in its class) with his One design 40 and not only, just remember that a Sydney 43 also designed by him won the next Sydney Hobart, but one thing is a design for crew racing other a design for solo racing and I am very curious to see how the new solo boat will perform.

Just to see the differences in design, besides beam, have a look at how the design of the transom is different, not in what regards beam being brought back but on the way the boat sits on the water and allows heeling.

The IRC racer:



and the 40 class solo racer:







The boat first race will be the Transat Jaques Fabre that will start soon.

By the way, ker is the one that has been working on the keels and rudders of Salonas with obvious results in speed and victories. The first Salona completely designed by Ker will be the 60 and I cannot wait to see the smaller Salonas completely designed by him.
 
#4,933 · (Edited)
Transat Jaque Fabre / Bolt 37

I think you are forgetting Safran and Marc Guillemot, Pascal Bidégorry. I believe that those two are among the ones that can win.

Yes, I posted about the Ker 40class racer. I am also very curious about that boat and to see how Ker will perform in what regards designing solo boats but I would say that I don't expect much: After all the other designers have years of experience with solo racers and the design of a solo or short crew racing boat is very different from the design of a crewed racer. But I do love ker work and designs and secretly hope I am wrong.

Do you know the new "cheap" racer by ker (made in Turkey)? Well cheap but fast:D





Here is that post about the Ker 40class racer:

Ker is dominating IRC (in its class) with his One design 40 and not only, just remember that a Sydney 43 also designed by him won the next Sydney Hobart, but one thing is a design for crew racing other a design for solo racing and I am very curious to see how the new solo boat will perform.

Just to see the differences in design, besides beam, have a look at how the design of the transom is different, not in what regards beam being brought back but on the way the boat sits on the water and allows heeling.

The IRC racer:



and the 40 class solo racer:







The boat first race will be the Transat Jaques Fabre that will start soon.

By the way, ker is the one that has been working on the keels and rudders of Salonas with obvious results in speed and victories. The first Salona completely designed by Ker will be the 60 and I cannot wait to see the smaller Salonas completely designed by him.
Regards

Paulo
 
#4,619 ·
Allures 39.9

We have talked already about the new boat from Allures, an Aluminium voyage boat as all the others but no movie of the boat on the water and no boat test. Here are the first one, curiously in English by Sailing today magazine:

the test:

http://www.allures.fr/pdf/ST196_Boat_Test_Allures39_DK_V6.pdf



They have summed it up this way:

"The Allures 39.9 is close to my ideal cruising yacht and not badly priced when compared to similar GRP offerings."

...
 
#4,624 · (Edited)
Ocean 35



have heard about it when it was a project. No it is in the water and it looks just great and that should not surprise looking to the ones that designed it:

IDesign : Franck DARNET Design
Architectes : Ronan GUERIN - Gildas PLESSIS - François LUCAS

These guys are among the most new generation innovative NA and the boat is light and certainly fast with a great interior....it cannot be cheap (232 000 euros), but it is certainly a very interesting boat. They are working on a 38fter now.









http://nautisme.lefigaro.fr/actuali...-35---un-croiseur-a-vivre-performant-3140.php

http://www.attitude-ocean.com/la-gamme/ocean-35/

Regards

Paulo
 
#4,623 · (Edited)
Varianta 37

Yes, I agree with both of you. It seems that the Varianta has revue the target market and while the bigger boat seems to be pointed to club racing this one points to cruising and a truly unbeatable price, as you say, a 37ft for the price of a 32ft.



Contrary to the Varianta 44 this one has a good anchor locker (the winch is an extra) and a simple but very nice interior, much more nicer than the one on the 44.

The boat is simple but has all things you need to cruise. Of course, I would put an anchor winch, bigger sail winches, a lazy bag and a traveler, but even so the boat would be cheaper than anything on the market.

A very nice stability curve, a well built solid boat and a boat that sails very well with an agreeable interior...what we do need more for cruising?

I guess this one is going to sell much better than the 44. The base price is a bit over 70 000 euros without tax.



















Regards

Paulo
 
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