Please Advise on This Hardin 45' cutter ketch

[Winderlust]

This Yachtworld boat has my eye. 1981 Hardin 45' cutter/ketch to be used for South-sea's cruising, 3-4 crew, all other things being equal (meaning no special conjecture).

I have heard bad things about boats coming from some Taiwan Yards maybe even most.

If I could nab it for $100-105k, that would leave only about $25-30k to get her ready for the extended cruise, say out cruising for 5 or so years. I can do much of the unskilled labor. I would use the transit/delivery from New Orleans to San Diego as the shake down and expect $6-8k additional expenses doing that.

1981 Hardin Cutter Ketch Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Is this boat worthy of further investigation for said purpose or is it a pass? Does anyone know about this production run? The hull is number 108. Did they start at 1 or 100?

Is my transit estimate to, through the Panama Canal, and up to San Diego in bounds?

I sure would be interested in knowledgeable replies.

[imagine2frolic]

That's one heck of a shakedown cruise!......i2f

[Jeff_H]

To some extent these are the boats that gave Taiwan its bad reputation. Hardins are supposed to be a little better built than some of the more negligently constructed designs. Still and all, these are antiquated designs that in the big picture offer poor performance, are very expensive to maintain in terms of the age of the boat meaning that much of the gear and rigging is at the end of its useful lifespan, especially for offshore sailing, and everything being sized the excessive weight of the boat, plus boats of this type are really rolly and tend to pitch through wider angles than more up to date offshore cruiser, and so can be extremely uncomfortable for people for whom wide angles of motion are uncomforble.

Jeff

[Winderlust]

Thanks Jeff for the wave-off. I'll steer clear of these boat types.

Would you say the Tashing built boats of 1981 vintage bring up the same concerns. Or is that the difference?

I understand a 1981 rig probably needs a re-fit. Do these Taiwan boats have the bones to be worth it?

[smackdaddy]

I've wondered the same thing Winder - the Cheoy Lees, Ta Chiaos, etc. I see a lot of Cheoy Lee Pedricks one the market - but the range all over the place in terms of reviews.

Jeff, you seriously should do some review articles on various production boats within a decade run. There are always a lot of questions from people buying boats from the '70's, 80's, 90's, etc. It would be cool to have a good overview article.

[Winn]

I bought my 1978 Hardin 44 last year, hull #31. To my knowledge, they are numbered from #1 and up, so #108 is well up there. I absolutely love my Hardin 44. I take her out by myself, all 4 sails, all the time. The 1981 boat in question looks like significant new work and money has been put into the boat. Check the bulkheads and decks for rot, however since the decks have been glassed, they may be in good shape. Most of the problem areas look like they have been replaced, but check on the engine. I have a new Yanmar 75 Turbo and it costs nothing to run the boat. I investigated these boats for 2 years before acquiring mine. I couldn't be happier. I find mine easy to fall in love with. Any boat can be a nightmare, just buy a good one.
Winn

[Winderlust]

Winn,

Very interesting and encouraging response. Where is Kent island? Would you take your lover, your children and your mom out 2,000km to sea in your Hardin 44'?

What is your baddest experience in the deep blue?

Have you needed to cut sail and reef the main in your Hardin? What was that like?

Do you still have the leaky teaky deck or has your boat also had the teakectomy as this boat has had? If not, are your decks still stiff and dry?

Your input is direct knowledge, but after only one post, I wonder how deep the knowledge. No offense... I also know the number of posts a person has here can also be miss-leading. God knows half my posts on this board have been wayward and misguided.

If you don't mind me asking... When did you buy, where, how much, what did your surveyor say about the boat, and what have you done to her? What is her hull speed and how much wind on broad does it take, flying your jib, stay, main and mizzen to reach that speed? What do you think you would have to do to get her ready for a cross Pacific passage?

Please excuse my nosiness. That's what makes Sailnet so valuable. Where else can I get those answers?

[Winn]

Hello Winderlust,

Kent Island is on the other side of the Chesapeake Bay Bridge, by Annapolis, MD. I have never been 2,000km out to sea on her. I'm not sure my loved ones would handle it anyway, but with the proper experience, equipment, and preparation, I in fully intend to taking her down to the keys in Florida.
What other boat at what money would you feel safe? In the ocean, they are all small boats.

While fairly new to sailing, (yes, I jumped in with both feet, but glad I did) I have been boating for over 35 years. I have an engineering background so I notice everything and I'm pretty particular about things. My worst experience is only a temporary grounding in 25mph winds, but this is probably due to some wise words that I read. "Trust your instincts. If your instinct says drop the sails, do it immediately without question. By the time the situation hits you, it's too late." As I sail alone often, better safe than sorry. I only dropped the sails once for the grounding, as the wind was blowing me into shallow water. With the big prop and powerful diesel, I was able to work my way out. I have sailed her in higher winds with the main reefed and thoroughly enjoyed the day. One thing I really like about mine is the 6' keel. It takes a lot to make her heel and the ride is wonderful.

She easily motors over 7 knots. I'm at 4 to 5 knots in lighter winds. No problem getting 7 knots+ in higher winds. We have 2 Hardins here at the marina, and we joke about how it's time to go out when they call for small craft warnings.

First, I have great luck with large purchases. I bought the boat in Baltimore, only a short trip away, at a fantastic price. The surveyor was very impressed. I know these boats inside and out and pre-surveyed it myself after 2 years of looking at several Hardins. I almost bought another Hardin previously, but my surveyor suggested that I walk off the boat. Always have a good surveyor, he saved me a lot of money and aggrevation. The $1000.00 cost for the surveyor was a $100,000.00 education. Follow him everywhere and observe.

My Hardin has had the teakectomy, and the inside is beautiful because of it. My decks are like a rock. I fact the whole boat is rock solid. One of the few boats to survive in the middle of Hurricane Katrina was a Hardin 45. I actually have not had to do a lot to the boat, at present. Someone had done a lot of work to her previously, replacing wood spars with aluminum spars, glassing the decks, and a new engine. I was surprised at how easily I could handle her around the marina under power. I thought I would need a bow thruster, but I can put her within an inch of anything by myself. This is of course in normal weather.

Before taking on an ocean going trip, I need to certify the rigging, add survival gear, recondition the fuel in the two 100 gallon tanks, install new radar, soda blast the bottom and apply fresh paint. I burn so little fuel, that if I used the big tanks, the fuel would probably go bad, so I installed a 9 gallon tank for cruising locally.

One big thing you want to do before taking her out in the oceans of the world is to make some shields for the big front windows. Some of the "Island Trader" Hardins have smaller front windows and a raised front cabin trunk. As that 1981 may have the original engine, I see that as the potential weak link, especially for what you are considering.

I could go on for hours so feel free to call me - my cell is 410-725-4377 warning I get lots of calls, always preface with an email and include your number so I can see if I missed your call.

I believe that most people that criticize these boat have never had one. She is major eye candy in the marina, people love her, salty as hell, and the best thing I ever did. I wish that I had discovered her 20 years ago.
My wife was giving me major grief about switching from power boating to buying the Hardin. After her first ride on the Hardin she said "Wow - I feel like I'm in a movie, but I can touch it."
Try it, you'll like it.

[blackjenner]

Originally Posted by Winderlust

Thanks Jeff for the wave-off. I'll steer clear of these boat types.

Wow, that was fast.

I think it depends on what you are looking for. I've seen a crapped out Hunter and a Catalina in my search and a pristine Hardin, with glass decks, aluminum spars, great sails and a fairly new Perkins.

I'm not going to defend any boat I'm looking at. What I am going to do is look closely, pay attention to unbiased and informed opinions, and go in with as much information as I can.

It really depends on the boat, how well you check it out and who your surveyor is.

Good luck in your search.

[blackjenner]

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