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post #21 of 32 Old 03-11-2010
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You're considering an old (80's) boat. The reason they don't cost the same as a new boat is that they are old and have wear and tear, including water intrusion into the deck to some degree. When you sell it, it will still be an old boat, no matter how much you spend on it. And your prospective buyer will have the same concerns that you have. Just buy the boat if you like, use it, then sell it, and expect to have to discount it a bit from what you paid because it is older and has even more wear and tear, including more core rot.

If you were going on extended offshore voyages, then such things would be more of a problem, but most of us don't do that.

In my opinion, people waste lots of money on replacing standing rigging, grinding away fiberglass to solve a blister problem, and trying to recore boats. It seems like punishing yourself for no reason. Buy a boat you can use, and leave the heavy maintenance (upgrading I think they call it) to others.

Last edited by NCC320; 03-11-2010 at 09:11 AM.
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post #22 of 32 Old 03-11-2010
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I don't accept the perspective that wet core is business-as-usual on an older boat. While not unusual, I also don't consider the problem routine or acceptable.

If I were considering a purchase of a boat with a wet deck, I would insist on discounting the price for the full cost of a professional repair. If the seller would not agree, then he'd get to look for another buyer with different judgement.

IMHO, you buy this boat without making the seller take the hit for its condition, then there's a good chance that you instead will take that hit yourself, when you sell. Unless you get lucky and find another un-wise buyer.

Certified...in several regards...

Last edited by sailingfool; 03-11-2010 at 11:47 AM.
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post #23 of 32 Old 03-11-2010
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Just get an estimate to tear up & recore that portion of the deck, and subtract it from whatever your offer was going to be. And then subtract a bunch more, because it's a boat, nobody ever makes money selling them, so why pay a "fair value"? And then subtract a bunch more because it's a down market.

Worst case scenario is, the seller is an ax murderer, becomes offended, and chops you up to make sausage. More likely though, he'll just accept because he's not getting any activity at all and doesn't want that white elephant around his neck for the next 5 years of his life.

Seriously though, lowball lowball lowball, then get things fixed right.

Last edited by LookingForCruiser; 03-11-2010 at 09:29 AM.
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post #24 of 32 Old 03-11-2010
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I don't agree with the argument that competent surveyors should be held completely responsible for problems that arise.

Do you expect them to have X-ray vision or extra sensory perception? They are human, and they are covering their asses.

Please noticed how I stressed the word COMPETENT!

-tip

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post #25 of 32 Old 03-11-2010
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Maybe a couple of specific examples of why meters can not give absolute answers may help.

1. I will be surveying an IMX 38' next week and I know from past experience that this hull is foam cored and that the bonding putty is a blue material with a very high capacitance and any meter will show very high moisture levels when it passes over this putty no matter how dry it is. This putty is also extremely hard and when my hammer hits a spot where the core kerf is filled with putty I will get a much different report than even an inch further away. This boat requires methods other than percussive soundings or moisture meters to determine the condition of the core.

2. Late model Tiara Yachts use a proprietary gelcoat with very high capacitance and will alsways show a high moisture level on the meter even though the substrate is dry and sound.

There is a lot more art to this than forking out a couple of hundred bucks for a meter. I have a set of scalpels that I use for model making .... just because I have them does not qualify me to perform surgery

Dirt People Scare me

Last edited by boatpoker; 03-11-2010 at 01:36 PM. Reason: spacing
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post #26 of 32 Old 03-11-2010
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In my and many friends quests we have never found and older boat with DRY decks

This boat was perfect with no delamation BUT wet none the less


I am not even sure how you can build one dry as the RH is so high most of the time( 60%) in the first place

1970 Cal 29 Sea Fever

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If a dirty bottom slows you down what do you think it does to your boat
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Last edited by tommays; 03-11-2010 at 01:41 PM.
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post #27 of 32 Old 03-11-2010
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We had some deck core issues that the surveyor found. The owner agreed to let a well known local glass guru to open a hole up from below to confirm. We adjusted the offer to account for the estimated cost of the necessary repairs, and finished the deal. To the original poster, there's never a boat that you've got an offer on that you can't walk away from if you and the owner can't find a mutually agreeable price. Being able to just say 'no' is you're biggest barging chip and a word that you should always be prepared to use in good faith negotiations. Personally, I'd expect some damp readings and a point or two of outright bad core on an older boat. Doing some re-coring isn't a deal breaker for us, but it certainly has to be accounted for in the closing price.
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post #28 of 32 Old 03-11-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boatpoker View Post
There is a lot more art to this than forking out a couple of hundred bucks for a meter. I have a set of scalpels that I use for model making .... just because I have them does not qualify me to perform surgery
Once again you have MISSED the entire point of my article. Please read it more carefully.

Here's what someone who read it actually thought. This came in off my web site via email.





Dear Compass Marine,

I wanted to thank you for your dissertation on a moisture meter for boat buying. I bought one and used it as you described to exclude boats with severely wet decks. My wife and I fell in love with a beautiful C&C. It displayed like new, inside and outside, and the decks seemed solid when we walked on them. The day before we went to look at it my meter came from Canada by post. I quickly went to the marina and began checking boats of friends to get a feel of it as fast as I could.

The next day we went to the C&C with your article. The decks had many areas that locked the needle at max wet. The decks were dry externally, no dew, and I confirmed no metal in the areas of high wetness. Approximately 35-40% of the decks were totally wet according to my new meter. I was unsure of my results being new with this meter so still talked with the broker to get more input.

It was not until after I let him know what I found with my meter that he admitted there had been a recent survey. The result of the survey was that the boat had considerably wet decks.

My wife and I walked away. Three months later I ran into a guy at the marina who had been looking at boats and he actually surveyed the C&C, the same broker never told him of the wet decks or the survey. It cost him over $650.00 to find out it was a junker. My meter cost me about 1/3 of that survey price so I consider it free, like you said. I would have wasted $600.00 on a survey for nothing because the boat showed so well. Brokers are not always honest but that is anther subject.

Thank you for my free moisture meter.

George
Burke

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-Maine Sail / CS-36T


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Last edited by Maine Sail; 03-11-2010 at 05:12 PM.
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post #29 of 32 Old 03-11-2010 Thread Starter
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The boat I am looking at is owned by a frequent, well respected poster of this site. The origanal owners of the boat let the decks get wet because of negligence. The current owner has done everything right in stopping the leaks, but the wetness in some areas is still a fact, and some small areas of rot are bound to be there. The boat shows no more wetness than it did at the last survey 4 years ago. I have no problem with the boat for my own use, I just was wondering how negatively the boat buying public takes decks with moisture in them. This is a 50k ,35' boat , that if we started ripping up areas of suspected rot, would cost probably 15k , mostly to put it back into the cosmetic shape it started. Probably not worth it especially since the decks don't show any ill affects. I wouldn't think of insulting the owner, because he and I both know, he put way more into it than he is getting out.
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post #30 of 32 Old 03-11-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stm View Post
I wouldn't think of insulting the owner, because he and I both know, he put way more into it than he is getting out.
It's not an insult, it's an offer. It's an old boat with soggy decks in a down market. There are a ton of those out there.

Your goal should be to find the lowest point the seller will sell for. If you're worrying about him being insulted, you're going to pay more than you should.
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