Schooners as passage makers - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Boat Review and Purchase Forum
 Not a Member? 


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 04-24-2010
bellefonte's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 127
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 5
bellefonte is on a distinguished road
Schooners as passage makers

I intend to cruise, live aboard and sail blue water.

Does anyone have advise on this type of boat? I have been attracted to the Ketch rig because of its versatility in heavy weather. I began reading the post on Mahina.com about blue water boats and the steel hull Freya 39 caught my eye. Then I found this, quite by accident:
1987 Corten Steel Schooner (DRASTIC PRICE REDUCTION) Sail Boat For Sale -

Thoughts?
__________________
My Cruising blog:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


But it's not who you are underneath, it's what you do that defines you. ... Rachel Dawes
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #2  
Old 04-24-2010
nickmerc's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: O'Fallon, MO
Posts: 563
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 7
nickmerc is on a distinguished road
I sail on charter boats that are schooners. They are great fun, but do require a crew to safely handle the boat. The one you are looking at has gaff rigged sails. You will need at least two people to raise sails safely. If you have an autopilot you are set, if you do not, or do not want to rely on one you will need a helmsman. That's up the three people now. If it were marconi rigged you could get away with one person handling sails if it were rigged well. One other drawback of a schooner rig is you cannot point as high as a sloop with full sails.

The benefit of schooners is you can carry lots of sail with less crew required to handle them safely. You also have lots of options with your sail plan. One thing I really like is in heavy air you can, on a two masted schooner, just fly the stay sail. You will make headway and the helm is balanced since the center of effort of this sail is usually directly over the center of resistance of the keel.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #3  
Old 04-24-2010
bellefonte's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 127
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 5
bellefonte is on a distinguished road
I see. So, it we have an auto pilot and its just me and the wife, we dont have enough hands to safely manage it?
__________________
My Cruising blog:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


But it's not who you are underneath, it's what you do that defines you. ... Rachel Dawes
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #4  
Old 04-24-2010
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Gloucester, MA
Posts: 586
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 6
klem is on a distinguished road
Schooners have been used for offshore sailing for hundreds of year and the boat looks quite capable, the question is whether it would be a good fit for you.

Gaff rigged boats are a bit different to sail so knowing the difference is important. When raising or lowering the sails, you have both a throat and a peak halyard. Typically, this means one person per halyard although if they are lead correctly, one strong person can do both. As long as the autopilot works and both of you are in good shape, it should not be an issue. Gaff sails don't do as well to windward as marconi sails generally so that needs to be taken into account. Offshore if it is rolly and there isn't much breeze, the gaff will swing around wildly. This means that you have to set a preventer on each boom and sometimes you even need to drop the sails. The lines drawing makes it look like the boat is setup for a jackyard topsail which is yet another level of complexity.

Schooners are sailed slightly differently than ketches due to the distribution of their sail area. Most schooners have some weather helm due to the large mainsail although this specific boat looks as if it might be better balanced than most. Generally, the foresail is the last sail left up and you start with reefing the main, then taking down the jib. On a ketch, you would normally take down the middle sail (main) whereas on a schooner, you take down sails from the ends. Most schooners will sail in a gale under foresail alone or foresail and staysail. The foresail will often be built out of heavier cloth and have heavier gear associated with it for this reason.

I don't see any reason why the boat you listed could not be made bluewater capable. It will take a lot more user input to sail it but it is easily done by two skilled and fit people.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #5  
Old 04-24-2010
sailingdog's Avatar
Telstar 28
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,290
Thanks: 0
Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts
Rep Power: 13
sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice
First, I would ask how much sailing experience you and your wife have.

Also, have you owned a boat previously??

I'd point out that when cruising as a couple, a majority of your sailing is done as two singlehanded sailors, sailing the same boat, since the other will be otherwise occupied—sleeping, cooking, etc.

Also, a steel boat has maintenance requirements that are a bit different from GRP or wooden boats. In many ways, the GRP boats are easier to maintain, and easier for the average person to learn to repair.

A sloop-rigged boat would probably be easier for you and your wife to handle and maintain.
__________________
Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.

Last edited by sailingdog; 04-24-2010 at 10:41 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #6  
Old 04-24-2010
Freesail99's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 4,507
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 9
Freesail99 will become famous soon enough
Send a message via Yahoo to Freesail99
Quote:
Originally Posted by bellefonte View Post
I see. So, it we have an auto pilot and its just me and the wife, we dont have enough hands to safely manage it?
I have to ask, just how much sailing have you done?
__________________
S/V Scheherazade
-----------------------
I had a dream, I was sailing, I was happy, I was even smiling. Then I looked down and saw that I was on a multi-hull and woke up suddenly in a cold sweat.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #7  
Old 04-25-2010
MARC2012's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 594
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 7
MARC2012 is on a distinguished road
From the looks of it I think it has running back stays,If you are neither familiar with there nor experienced this could be a problem..marc
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #8  
Old 04-25-2010
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,004
Thanks: 5
Thanked 18 Times in 18 Posts
Rep Power: 11
wind_magic has a spectacular aura about wind_magic has a spectacular aura about wind_magic has a spectacular aura about
Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingdog View Post
Also, a steel boat has maintenance requirements that are a bit different from GRP or wooden boats. In many ways, the GRP boats are easier to maintain, and easier for the average person to learn to repair.
Dog are you saying it is hard to learn how to use a piece of sand paper ?
__________________
What are you pretending not to know ?

Please support my
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #9  
Old 04-25-2010
sailingdog's Avatar
Telstar 28
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,290
Thanks: 0
Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts
Rep Power: 13
sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice
Corrosion never sleeps and maintaining a steel boat is more than just sanding away corrosion. Steel boats require very regular inspection and maintenance, where a GRP boat can often be less demanding. Yes, gelcoat oxidizes and waxing and polishing the hull is nice...but the oxidization of gelcoat doesn't really affect the integrity of the hull, just its appearance. Rusting of a steel hull is far different as it can and often does affect the integrity of the boat itself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wind_magic View Post
Dog are you saying it is hard to learn how to use a piece of sand paper ?
__________________
Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #10  
Old 04-25-2010
bellefonte's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 127
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 5
bellefonte is on a distinguished road
Freesail,
after reading the responses, not enough. I'll be looking for a simpler sail plan.
I sure do love the idea of a ketch rig, but again, its fairly complex; more rgging, sails etc. All equating to more expense. Now Im studying an old post by Jeff on Cutter vs Sloop.

Thanks everyone for the input.
__________________
My Cruising blog:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


But it's not who you are underneath, it's what you do that defines you. ... Rachel Dawes
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New to Sailing, please Help =) xyris Learning to Sail 19 11-17-2008 09:30 AM
Reflections of an Offshore Passage Bermuda Seamanship & Navigation 4 07-23-2006 09:03 PM
A GUIDE TO OFFSHORE PASSAGE MAKERS (Sailing Vessels) piclarke Crew Wanted/Available 0 05-13-2003 05:43 PM
Panama Passage TakesMeAway Crew Wanted/Available 0 06-30-2001 09:00 PM
An Offshore Training Passage John Kretschmer Cruising Articles 0 05-24-2001 09:00 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:37 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.