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  #11  
Old 04-30-2010
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cardiacpaul is a jewel in the rough cardiacpaul is a jewel in the rough cardiacpaul is a jewel in the rough
ok, slow down, back away from the edge, grab yourself an adult beverage and relax.

your perfect boat is out there.
There are literally thousands in florida, the gulf coast and coastal texas that will do what you want it to do.

that being said....
Any "better value" you may get from a northern boat will be shot by the time you drag it down south, especially in the 10k range. (and yea, not to pee on anybodys parade, I think "northern" boats are better, less use, less UV damage) blah, blah, blah.
In real general terms, freshwater boats are also in better "shape" than saltwater.
But, considering you're PR, I can't see where it would have any financial benefit to get a freshwater boat trucked to the salt. (even in the same general region.. here in tx, trucking a 30 ft boat is almost 3.00 a mile, plus pick and splash & rigging fees, that eats up a lot of the 10k doesn't it)

Please, put away the moisture meter too. In unskilled hands, its worthless. And, imho, you don't want to train yourself to use it on your own first boat. Hire a good surveyor. (no, not me, I'm to old and feeble to do anything but bitch these days.)

It bares repeating, a 10k boat that needs sails really is worth a lot less than a 15k boat that has new sails.

Oh, this claptrap about inboard vs outboard needs to go over the side as well.
"MOST" (quit with the hate mail) boats you're going to be looking at WILL have an inboard, either an atomic4 gas job, or a diesel of some type. You're going to want an inboard in a monohull if you're going to be tooling around the islands. You can "get away" with an outboard, but, the first time it cavitates and you hear "WEEE, I'M FREE" generated by the prop, you'll wonder why you ever thought an outboard was a good idea.
Its my experience that everyone has their own preference as to brand of diesel motor, but, stick with the "name" brands, stay away from volvos (too expensive to fix)and you'll be ok.

Whatever particular boat you decide on is going to be subject to the previous owners maintenance.

Boats that have been taken care of are going to be more expensive.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but right now, as of this very second, deciding on inboard vs outboard, vs in a well or on a bracket is kind of like a kid with a learners permit asking about angle of attack on a Ducati.

Find the right for ~you~ boat... first.
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  #12  
Old 04-30-2010
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CP makes some very good points... However, a lot of boats in the <27' range were outboard powered.
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  #13  
Old 04-30-2010
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This is sound advise. Thank you. I just figure for the amount of money I have the inboard will probably be in less than good shape, and it would be cheaper to just get one with an outboard. Is that wrong? Do you think its feasible if I shop around to find a good deal for this amount of money. One reason Im looking at smaller boats is that I can probably get one in better shape for the money I have.
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  #14  
Old 04-30-2010
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Sailingdog,
Fiberglass is not moisture proof. It can and does absorb moisture. I have used several different moisture meters over the past 25 years. If you don't think fiberglass can hold moisture up to 25% then perhaps you haven't laid on your back under a boat repairing it for 6 weeks. And perhaps you have never held a moisture meter in your hands. Respectfully.
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Inboard or outboard?

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazy8 View Post
This is sound advise. Thank you. I just figure for the amount of money I have the inboard will probably be in less than good shape, and it would be cheaper to just get one with an outboard. Is that wrong? Do you think its feasible if I shop around to find a good deal for this amount of money. One reason Im looking at smaller boats is that I can probably get one in better shape for the money I have.
I think you are right to believe that a smaller boat for a fixed sum of money could be of higher quality than a bigger one for the same amount.
You might want to think about the Bristol 27 (Carl Alberg designed) these came with the option for a motor well in the lazarette. This was the set up of the Alberg 22 as well.
If you look carefully at these boats you will see that the motor well is really very close to the water... I mean inches. A nice 15 horse merc with a long shaft would be sweet in one of these.
The up side of this is minimal chance of spinning dry, a less costly engine, more storage room and less weight in the boat. The two issues with this set up is the scoop effect of the motor well on the water, and the problem of exhaust fouling the combustion air. The scoop effect is overcome by fitting a plastic shroud around the well with just enough room for the shaft to come out. The second problem is cured by tapping into the exhaust port of the motor head and putting a threaded aluminum pipe into it, and then clamping a plasic hose to that that is led to ouside of the motor well; no more fumes in the motor well and no slowing down from the scoop effect.
Mind you, an outboard hanging in the motor well does have a lot of drag anyway

Last edited by maarty10; 04-30-2010 at 10:02 PM. Reason: cause
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  #16  
Old 04-30-2010
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Maarty—

I never said that fiberglass couldn't absorb water. I just said that it can't absorb 25% water.... it just can't. This just means you don't actually understand what the moisture meter is telling you. Most moisture meters are designed for use on household building materials—lumber, wood, drywall, etc... and the readings need to be interpreted when used on fiberglass.

This is the scale for the Electrophysics CT33 moisture meter, courtesy of Maine Sail's website. When a moisture meter reads 30% when used on a solid fiberglass hull, that means it has about 3% water by volume, not 30%... You might want to read his page on using moisture meters.



Quote:
Originally Posted by maarty10 View Post
Sailingdog,
Fiberglass is not moisture proof. It can and does absorb moisture. I have used several different moisture meters over the past 25 years. If you don't think fiberglass can hold moisture up to 25% then perhaps you haven't laid on your back under a boat repairing it for 6 weeks. And perhaps you have never held a moisture meter in your hands. Respectfully.
I'd point out that core materials, especially plywood and end-grain balsa, can hold really amazing amounts of water, but the fiberglass itself can not. A soggy end-grain balsa core might register 50% or higher, especially if it has started to rot.
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a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

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Last edited by sailingdog; 05-01-2010 at 12:44 AM.
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  #17  
Old 05-01-2010
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Yea! You might want to!
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  #18  
Old 05-01-2010
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It has been my experience that when the meter hits 25% relative to surrounding areas that are reading 10 that there is a problem spot. What I have often found is that there is a severe blister (1 to 2 " in dia) in that spot. Poking the tip of a knife into the spot usually lets out a bit of the "acid tea" there. Don't get it in your eye. At other times there is no obvious blister, but grinding into the spot reveals an inter-laminar wet spot. How to fix these is another story (if you care to know how I am happy to share) but this has shown me, regardless of the true scientific value of the meter reading, that the Relative readings are what show where the moisture is. You don't have to know how the science works; just how to use it.
The fiberglass does hold moisture. When the acid "tea" has been there long enough it dissolves the plastic component (and sometimes the chopstrand wasn't fully saturated on layup day) When you grind into it it looks a bit like mottled whitish cheesecloth. An active blister will have tea coloured liquid and have a sharp acid taste. This is usually restricted to the chopstrand layer. If you imagine the resin as a liquid, and the glass strand as the sponge you get the idea. It has the dimension of a solid fiberglass composite without actually holding the resin, and hence is able to hold moisture.
.
If the problem areas of a prospective purchase boat's hull can be documented the price can be driven down quite readily. Figure on bringing the price down by 8 to 10k on a 35k boat. In a worst case scenario (gel coat to be stripped) I would say a ball park figure of about 1000$ per 35 square feet.

Last edited by maarty10; 05-01-2010 at 07:43 PM. Reason: cause i wanted to
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  #19  
Old 05-06-2010
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I'm in the CT and have also found that the 10 to 15k boats are often rather beat.
Like the girls used to say, "You have to kiss a lot of frogs to find a prince".
Good boats cheap exist but it will take some looking.

Don't forget someday you will be selling and wondering where all the buyers are for your beautiful boat with a shot motor, blown out sails and crazed gel coat.
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Old 05-06-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maarty10 View Post
I An active blister will have tea coloured liquid and have a sharp acid taste.
Saildog; Maybe you should add the tasting technique to your survey document?

Maarty: Did you really taste the blister? We need a hardcore "big freaking" survey thread, that's awesome. Where is that "Gruntled" guy?

Last edited by davidpm; 05-06-2010 at 11:52 PM.
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