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Old 05-21-2010
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ranger 28 for almost nothing.

so forgive my lack of any real knowalge here. and for that matter my terrible spelling.
so here is my story. i recently decided that i have no real reason at this point not to start cruising, besides lack of $ that is. so i started looking for a boat and right off found there are alot out there in the 2 to 4 thousand range. after paging through endless junk i came across a 1978 ranger 28. (mull) that was in useable shape according to the owner. i know that is what they all say but he is being honest so far and is asking what the boat is worth. 2000. now we all know what this means there are soft spots on deck. it is not everywhere but they are on the bow from a damaged pulpit and some next to the hatch along the cabin. he also said the the toe rail needs redone. i am not scared of taking a saw to this classic and doing what needs done. what i need to know is can i live aboard and sail her wile i fix her up. i will need to take her from Cleveland before aug and head south so i don't freeze because i don't have the cash to have a boat in drydock an place on land and still have $ to sink into fiberglass and plywood.
i know there must be boats out there sailing with soft spots. but i am new to this and don't know how much is to much.
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Old 05-21-2010
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I am doing a functional restore and theres no way you can live on the boat and do anything beyond simple repiars and the price of material is substantial




If your lucky a small brown spot will ony get this big




If your not lucky it will get a lot bigger
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1981 J24 Tangent 2930
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If a dirty bottom slows you down what do you think it does to your boat
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Old 05-21-2010
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i know how big of a mess i could be getting into. i might have to spend 25,000 on a new deck. but that would give me a good boat for 27,000

so no one would sails with a soft spot on there deck? that is hard to believe

Last edited by jschorr; 05-21-2010 at 08:57 PM. Reason: to long winded
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Old 05-23-2010
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The first investment would be a good book or two. "This old Boat" By Don Casey is one of the best. It has section on just the problem you mentioned with several suggestions.

A lack of money is going to be a problem that can only be overcome with sufficiency of knowledge.
Adding ignorance to the equation will make it worse. Having tools and a place to work and time are the other parts.
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Old 05-23-2010
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My Haida 26' was $2000, and had soft spots on the deck. Turns out the whole cockpit seats were rotten. I tore them out and put in new ones, glassed them and installed hatches.

Marine Ply $60
Glass $15
Resin $40
Fairing Compound $25
Hatches $180
Drains $20

That was the cost to fix a huge area of soft spots. I used almost a whole sheet of ply on that repair. Despite the fact that "theres (sic) no way you can live on the boat and do anything beyond simple repiars (sic) and the price of material is substantial." I lived aboard while doing these cheap repairs.

They were a total pain, and often you need to clean and organize for 20 minutes before you can go to sleep, but it really is nowhere near impossible.

I say go for it. If you don't save that boat, you are just making room for a new one to go on the market. That is totally unnecessary and environmentally idiotic. Why waste resources building new boats when a few core repairs will give you a good boat without ruining nature?

Even if money is not part of the decision, restoring an old boat is a good choice.

BTW I replaced my cabin lights today for the princely sum of $15.

So don't be discouraged when everyone tells you that boating is expensive. Its not. Spending money is expensive. You don't have to spend a lot to maintain a boat if you are smart.
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Old 05-23-2010
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On this topic..I just picked up a '71 Seafarer 24 for $700 at municipal marina auction...she was a bit rough and had flaking topside paint everywhere ....she was riding high though and entire bootstripe was above the waterline so I bid on her and got her... hasn't had a bottom job since '05 but that's the going rate...she has sat since pretty much since then I think and had several passive owners since the dude who did her bottom last... warm Florida waters and all the critters have curled most of her bootstripe off...topside paint as I said is flakin all over...first i want to take care of any critical issues like potential leaks around hardware ...shroud tangs and so forth...she's just got one soft spot I found so far and it's in the cockpit floor about a foot south of the companionway...her forward hatch needs re-engineered a bit with new rubber sealing gasket....the standing rigging looks quite good..running rigging is a mixed bag....there were four sails..three were inside out of the sun but the working genoa was unprotected on the forestay and went to ribbons quickly yesterday on her first day out...the other jib is probably a 110 or so but I haven't measured or hung her out yet...thankfully, the main was crisp and folded and the spinnaker should be okay but probably just for a season or two..not too familiar with spinnakers at all though yet....anyways..tons of extras on this boat...brand new flare gun kit...a bag of blocks and tackle of all description...I guess I did okay...she's an old girl but McCurdy /Rhodes built her pretty well and she draws 2 feet or less with lots of old-school charm...there are good deals out there like few other times in recent memory I would venture...and so far...this is one old boat that ain't ready to head for the old folks home....

Last edited by souljour2000; 05-23-2010 at 10:12 PM.
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Old 05-24-2010
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thanks guys. i was hoping that someone out there would come back with some numbers for me. i didn't see how it could cost to much. i am a good scrapper and know that money is just a substitute for resourcefulness. i think i am going to be using the old skin with new balsa wood. i hear a grinder is the way to go and then i don't have to bevel the edges for the finish. i am glad that i can live on her and do this. i lived in a tent for years so i can deal with this.

thanks for the book sug. i was planing on picking that one up when i started. any more would be app.

i have some good skills for this already. i am coming off a stint of building electric bikes that work on small currents so i am good with batteries and wiring. btw lipo4 batteries are freeking amazing! no drop in current through use cycle and you can run them all the way down without hurting them, making them perfect for boat use. also i found plans for hooking a fan blade to semi alternator to make a wind generator. I'll tell you how that turns out.
i was also lucky enough to grow up in a marina (all be it a land locked one) i was 7 when i helped do my first fiberglass repair, it has been 20 some years since my last i am sure that not that much could have changed. just like paper mechay. i also play with motors a lot and have had to pulled a head on the side of the road before. i am guessing that will be like doing it on a boat. so besides the whole sailing thing, little nervous about that one, i should be able to handle this. how hard could it be, know where the wind is and catch it. that is if i don't tip her over in doing so. had bad accident with an ice boat doing that years back.

i decided that if glass around the stepped mast is ok then i will offer him 1000 for the boat. no one else seams to want it, there are tons of old boats around the lakes for super cheap and people want the big ones. kismet is on my side for this one i found a liveaboard slip for 1080 in buffalo for the summer season. the guy offered me a job at the restaurant at the marina too (I'm a chef). so i will have till Aug to get her in shape for the trip down the icw to Texas where my family is now. anyone want to help me take her through the locks?

i am still wondering what is the worst case scenario if sailing with soft decks? will the mast rip off with the first strong gust? well you guys probably know that as well as i do. lets hope not i would hate to destroy my toy/home before i get started. i think i will reinforce the standing rigging before i take her out just incase.
oh.. i am doing this single handed...i need some good reading....

Last edited by jschorr; 05-24-2010 at 01:38 PM.
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Old 05-24-2010
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Tager

As i last recall you were worried something might be Asbestos on your boat ?

I can guarantee in the best case you will be sanding away some lead based paint and if you want to sleep on board while thats going on what can i say
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If a dirty bottom slows you down what do you think it does to your boat
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Old 05-24-2010
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well here are some fun facts

Date Hazardous Materials Used in Paint
1953 Paint industry standards reduced lead levels in paint to 1.0% (or 10,000 parts per million)
1962 Lead reduced to 0.5% (or 1,000 parts per million). Most buildings constructed before 1960 contain heavily leaded paint.
1972 The Lead Based Paint Poisoning Prevention Act established the level of 0.5% in house paints.
1972 Mercury compounds were banned by the Environmental Protection Agency from use in marine paint.
1978 The final 1977 Lead Based Paint Poisoning Prevention Act regulation set the maximum allowable level at 0.06% (or 600 parts per million) became effective and lead at 0.06 percent or more was banned from consumer paints. The Washington State Department of Health estimates 1.2 million homes in Washington have lead based paint. Refer to Banned Lead Products for more information.
1990 Mercury in interior latex paint was banned by the Environmental Protection Agency. Up until it was banned in interior paints in 1990, paint was the third largest manufacturing use of mercury. Most buildings constructed before 1990 or 1991 probably contain some mercury in their paint.
1992 Mercury in interior paint banned but most manufacturers had reduced the amounts of mercury in their products before these dates. Refer to Banned Mercury Products for more information.
1993 A Consumer Product Safety Commission study of consumer paint samples found that paints on the market meet the standard and are actually below the 0.06 percent level.
1996 Lead was not banned from gasoline used in transportation until December 1995. See Banned Lead Products for more information.

Excellent information about historic paint ingredients (including 20th century paints) and many other building topics is available on The Old House Web at www.oldhouseweb.net. As an example refer to Painting Historic Interiors.

so you should worry about mercury poisoning more than lead.
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Old 05-24-2010
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i smoke, i eat fish alot (high enough mercury that pregnant women can't eat it) i eat red meat, i drink water, no one should know what is in water it will scare the hell out of you. aka plastic so small it passes the celluar barrier. but on the up side there is enough prozac in water so you won't get depressed about it. i wield, i have breathed enough steel factory soot to have black lung. (don't rehab a house in pittsburgh) and have pollyed enough floors to get a paint huffer high. sanding a little lead paint outside will not hurt me anymore than a night of heavy drinking. i appreciate your concern though. people should know what they are getting into. btw epoxy resin that is in fiberglass will soak in through the skin. and the glass itself will slowly fill your lungs and give you cancer. on the up side i don't use Teflon! that stuff will give you altimeters. and just for fun there is a study out in Finland that shows high levels of testicular cancer of males who keep there cellphone in there pocket. belt clip anyone?
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