First Time Buyer Frustration.... - Page 2 - SailNet Community
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post #11 of 23 Old 07-08-2010
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Oh, if you're going to take KD3PC's advice and go see the boat, do take a look at the Boat Inspection Trip Tips thread I started...so as to learn whether the boat is a turkey or a diamond in the rough...

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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

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post #12 of 23 Old 07-08-2010
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Look, not to defend lazy brokers, but sometimes the requests for info can be a little vague, like this:
"Hi, I saw your listing on yachtworld, can you tell me any more about this boat?"
Come on, we have ALL sent an email like this to a broker about a boat we saw on Yachtworld that is half the world and half our annuual take home pay away from us that we just like or dislike but have no intention of buying...

in other words, cybertirekicking. Get 10-15 of these emails a day or week, plus dozens more from scammers ("Hello I am seeing your add for sailboat for sail and I wish to buy boat today proposing to send you a cheque for $145,000 and you please be sending the difference to my business partner in Baltimore who will shipping the sailboat to me in Nigeria...") and your response tends to get pretty perfunctory.


Real buyers are asking WHEN and WHERE they can see the boat, and who cares if it has a recent survey? If you're spending more than $2-3K you should get a new survey anyway. If it doesn't have a recent survey, are you NOT going to take a look at the boat? you're gonna miss out on an awful lot of great deals that way.

You want a broker to respond to you and be eager to help? Let them know you are ACTIVELY BUYING, not just looking. Something like this:

"Hi, I saw your listing on Yachtworld, and the ________ 32 you have listed may be the right boat for us. Here's the deal: we are a family of four looking for our first sailboat after years of sailing with friends. We are looking for a boat in the 30-35 ft range suitable for weekending and week long cruises on Lake Erie/Lake Huron. We want something with full standing headroom, inboard diesel, fin keel, wheel steering furling jib dodger, bimini and a private head. We have an ALL CASH budget of up to $20 K for the right boat, and we want to be on the water by Aug 1. Are you the right broker, with the right boat for us?"

Now canadaler, if this IS the type of email you have been sending, and you have been get a lacklustre response, let me know, and I will set you up with a great Canadian broker who will happily find the boat of your dreams.
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post #13 of 23 Old 07-08-2010
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In an ongoing search for understanding...

The story below is an anedote I heard one day in a gam with an old sailor off Tonga. He had an old Holga Dank design with patched sails. He laid down a passarelle and boarded my ship. He grabbed my arm with a steely grip and said, "Arggh, I have got a story for ye. It be called 'The Broker's Fable.'"

Once upon a time, a broker was sitting in his office when two clients walked in. They said, "we would like to see the Trintella and the Hallberg Rassy you are advertising." This was inconvenient because the broker had made plans to meet with another client. He asked if they could re-schedule. "No, we are from New Zealand and leave tomorrow." He called and delayed his meeting. He wished they would have emailed or called and made an appointment. He felt like not showing them the yachts. He could tell they were not ready to purchase, but in the interest of long-term goodwill, good karma, and just inherent optimism, he gave them directions and promised to meet them at the first boat in an hour. He also mentioned some other local yachts they might be interested in. They replied, "Oh yes, we saw those on Yacht World and are planning to go to that broker later and see those." He suggested he could show them those as well. "No, we want to see the boats with the other broker." That was the last straw for him. He told them, "Then, as this is inconvient for me, please go to the other broker and have him show all the yachts. I think that will work best for all parties."

"What is the lesson of the fable?" I asked the old sailor. His face was knarly and weathered from years before the mast. He chewed on his gums a bit, spat, and looked in deep thought. Then he release his grip on my arm, turned around, reboarded his ship, and went out of sight below. I followed him, but when I went below, no one was there!
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post #14 of 23 Old 07-08-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadaler View Post
"Inexpensive" for me is <$20K. I've been looking in the Great Lakes and Northeast regions. The "plan" I had was to gather as much information as I can, if that looks good, take a trip to see it, then survey/offer.
Don't just use yachtworld.com/brokers for this. Go to sailboatlistings.com and craigslist(yes, craigslist) for a boat in that price range. Camp both of those sites and check them daily.

You'll see a lot of okay/decent value old listings with prices that come down every X months or so as the sellers get motivated to sell them. Then you'll also see some real gems that get listed and get snapped up pretty quick.

Also, do yourself a favor and look at a lot of boats in person. Every boat I looked at I learned more about what I wanted and didn't want. I ended up making an offer(and buying) a boat I had looked at a month prior.
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post #15 of 23 Old 07-08-2010
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Hey

What you have found is typical. IMO most brokers are not good. But - a few are. My suggestion is to find a good broker and just work with them for any boats near them - even if they don't have the listing.

Lastly, planning a vacation around an older, unknown, cheap boat doesn't sound like a vacation to me.

Good luck
Barry

Barry Lenoble
Deep Blue C, 2002 C&C 110
Mt. Sinai, NY

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post #16 of 23 Old 07-08-2010
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In the age of the internet, I don't think that boat brokers (or real estate agents) are worth their fees. Anyone can post an ad on Craigslist or another classified ads site, and it will be seen as readily as it would on YachtWorld. With the thousands saved on listing with an agent, I think a seller is more likely to strike a deal with a buyer which keeps some extra cash in the pockets of both parties.
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post #17 of 23 Old 07-08-2010
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Lake MI brokers

I was in a similar position as you are. A buddy of mine wanted a sailboat and asked if I wanted to partner up. He had zero zilch boating experience but liked it when he saw these sailors in the cockpit leaving the channel to go sailing on Lake Michigan. He knew I had the experience and could teach him. He was looking at yachtworld every day and sent me links. Boats of $50K and less.
As he didn't know if he would like sailing I told him why don't we try for an older solid 28' to 34' boat in the $15K range, keeping investment at a minimum if he didn't like it and wanted to sell after one season.
We found many on the East and West coasts of Lake Michigan and finally contacted a broker via e-mail for a boat listed in West Michigan. Found out that sometimes the contact shown is not really the listing broker (think real estate) the broker was in FL for a listing in MI???.
We found out who the "real" broker was by looking at the boat in person in the middle of winter. Doing this we saw many more boats for sale (as all are on the hard) in various marinas in the towns we drove through.
Finally narrowed it down and called the listing brokers and/or owners and made appointments for preliminary viewing and more specific detailed background info. This broker was very professional helped us with many details, did a sea trial with us, filed registration, did the deed, etc. and all for $800 . He went by 'if he services us now we will come back later' because we all know that the happiest days of our lives are the days when we buy a boat and when we sell a boat. My partner is hooked so he/we will buy a more expensive boat in the near future, listing our current boat with this broker and using him to buy another one.
Send me a PM and I let you know who it is.

ps. Our first sail was 81 miles on the big Lake Michigan starting with frost on the deck and sun in the back 12:30 hrs later at our home-port and a novice hooked. Preparation, preparation, preparation is all it takes for a longer trip.

E-J
s/v SAILMATES, 1973 IRWIN 32 Classic

Last edited by EJO; 07-08-2010 at 02:11 PM.
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post #18 of 23 Old 07-08-2010
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I had a good and bad experience with brokers. The first time I called a broker about a boat that was listed at his marina, he basically blew me off, even when I was trying to set up a time to look at the boat (a three hour drive for me). After numerous calls and e-mails, I quit making any further attempts.

When I was at a marina with my friend, he mentioned that his broker (different guy) was very helpful when he was buying his Beneteau 28. I met up with him at a boat show and casually mentioned what I was looking for, 28 to 30 feet, around $20 to 22 thousand. Within two weeks, he found me a boat that I ended up buying. The guy went out of his way to make the deal work. So the moral of the story is, there are good and bad brokers. Find the good one.
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post #19 of 23 Old 07-08-2010
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Another good site I could recommend is at Sailing Texas.
Sailing Texas, sailing lessons, sailboats for sale, yacht sales, sailboat rentals, charters, sailing videos
It's not just about Texas. Boats advertised there from all over the place.
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post #20 of 23 Old 07-11-2010
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Notice that the OP has not been back to this thread to either acknowledge the advice he has received or to provide new info. If this is the approach he has taken to communicating with brokers as well, I am unsure what right has to bitch about the responses he has received.
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