Boat recommendations? (C&C 110, Tartan 37, Sabre 36-2) - Page 2 - SailNet Community
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post #11 of 63 Old 07-11-2010 Thread Starter
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you guys are great

Thanks for all the feedback. Sailors are a great lot and I appreciate your help.

As noted above, yes, I am torn by the perennial question of cruiser vs. racer. On the one side, it'd be nice to have all the amenities of a fat, slow, microwaved, air-conditioned, arse-wiping cruiser... but on the other hand, I've been sailing my little E23 without any electronics for 2 years and have had a damn good time of it. But then again, I'd like to be able to sail the San Juan islands with a real head and galley (and some frigging standing head room), and sure, it'd be nice to have a depth sounder. In theory, a J35 or Express 37 would fit the bill, but the ones I've seen in the area just didn't sit right with me (if you need details, PM me). Hard to explain, but it is what it is . As for the Farr, I've heard there have been issues with quality. Conjecture, to be sure. I'd appreciate any owner comments on this.

What about the "owner cost" calculation? If you can get a J/109 for a decent price (relative, of course) and sell her in 5-10 years for a slight depreciation vs. an 80's J35ish type boat (Peterson/Express/Thompson) with a theoretically larger depreciation with higher upkeep costs, which is the right move? Somebody should invent a calculator for this and make a mint on some sailing website.

From what I've read, the J/109 is the holy grail of the racer/cruiser... at least from what the virtual world of online sailboat obsession has told me. Has anyone actually been on one of these beasts?

Continued thanks...
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post #12 of 63 Old 07-11-2010
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For a lower priced alternative to the J109, take a look at the Bene First 36.7.
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post #13 of 63 Old 07-11-2010
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There is a J35C for sale in Bellingham. I looked at the boat when I was in search mode.

The boat was dirty, but it was in very good shape other than that.
I didn't pursue it because there wasn't engough cockpit or aft cabin room for me.

Also, the dodger needed some rework, as it infringed too much on the cockpit.

Nice boat, though...



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post #14 of 63 Old 07-11-2010
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Pudd seems to have done a lot of homework! For racing in light air the Tartan 37 and Bristol will not pass muster, though they're nice boats. We sail through their lee so fast they look to see if our engine is going. (It's not.) Passing Sabre36's in our J/36 takes about 25 seconds longer. Have you seen a J/36? The interiors are fitted out much more "cruisily" than the J/35 or Express 37, which may appeal to you. Ash ceiling lines the hull, and the bulkheads are covered in ash with mahogany trim. There are several out in the Puget Sound/Seattle area. They're likely to have been raced, but ours seems to have held up pretty well. They sail nicely too: we beat a well-sailed J/109 to the windward mark in my last race, and we've beaten the occasional Swan/NY 42 along with every J/35 we've come across on Long Island Sound. Happy hunting!
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post #15 of 63 Old 07-11-2010
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You should look at this one:

The Elan 37 is a fine cruiser racer, a very good design, well built, and this one seems to have a fantastic equipment at a great price, probably because it is far away from Europe....but it is near the U.S.

It is a fine looking boat

2003 Elan 37 Sail New and Used Boats for Sale -
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post #16 of 63 Old 07-11-2010
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It has been literally decades since I have raced, or paid attention to racing but I'll toss out a question. What about a Cal-29? Definitely bigger than the boat the OP has been sailing. Good design, decent cruiser, sails well, and the cost for sails and rigging would be much much less than some of the 30+ft J-boats that have been mentioned. It would also be a LOT cheaper than any of the other boats mentioned so far. Of course, it would also be a lot older.

I don't know what the rating is on the Cal-29 but I do know that back-in-the-day, a number of sailors in our club raced them successfully. They are also a pretty comfortable boat for a couple to cruise on.

Just my ignorant $.02 and change.

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post #17 of 63 Old 07-11-2010
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There is a Cal 29 that does well in our fleet, as do most Cals.

I thought of another local, may not be what you want. A Bavaria Match 35, 105 fs, 123 nfs. Do not have the sail codes. 120-130K IIRC.

As far as the J109 being the holy grail of mid 30' boats........not sure I would go that far. I would also say look at the Bene First 36.7. IIRC there is also a C&C 115 local for sale, about the same $$$ as a 110, but faster. As mentioned tho, the C&C's have a hard time sailing to ratings, the J's an easier time. If WELL sailed, the C&C's will do fine.

The Farr's as far as quality, depends upon the manufacture. The 1020's IIRC are for the most part ok, some Farr's from the east coast of US, one company has some deck core issues. and there are some out of Australia that were cheap take offs, with no input from Farr etc. These also have some issues. JeffH probably has the most info of anyone on this forum regarding Farr design/sold boats for quality etc. The Bene firsts ar Farr designs in the size you are looking at for a number of years.


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post #18 of 63 Old 07-11-2010 Thread Starter
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Djodenda, do you know which brokerage had that J35c?

That Elan 37 looks beautiful, but the logistics are probably prohibitive.

I'll keep my eye out for a J/36.

I checked out the Sabre 36 yesterday. Very nice boat. Looks like the PHRF on that boat is in around 117. What about the argument that you don't need to come in first in order to win the race (with the handicap)?

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post #19 of 63 Old 07-11-2010
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I can tell you that I've never been in a phrf event in the PNW with a Sabre that has been competitive at all. With a 118 rating, you'll be racing again the 114-130 band (j-29's, j-30's, Olson 911's, Farr 1020, etc... ) Every one of these boats will eat you alive even boat for boat with a higher rating than yours because most have been properly prepped, not to mentioned sailed fairly well by owners who know their boats.

The whole 'resale value' thing is odd. What you want ideally is a boat with a great reputation built in small numbers like the Express 34 or Olson 911s. The J-109 is a nice boat, but will have trouble sailing to it's rating in light air unless you sail with a large genoa (but that will effect the rating). In 5-10 years, what boat will keep it's value in the size range you're looking at? Honestly, probably nothing. On the west coast, Express 37's have because they continue to sail competitively in their rating band, and have an active one design fleet down in SF. My guess is they'll be treated like the Cal 40 in your time frame; a classic that some will lavish great love on, continue to sail hard, do the work necessary to keep them up, will still bring home the pickle dishes in the right conditions, etc... and other's that will be let go and become project boats. The trick is to find 'the right one', a boat that you can actually afford to run and do the work needed to stay in the former catagory. If you're looking for a boat that will forever be free of some deck core issues, etc... you're probably out of luck with all of them. That said, re-coring is one of those tasks that most run away from thinking it the end of a boat. That's most certainly not always the case, particularly if you're willing to do some of the work yourself. As you probably know already, just doing the prep work, removing hardward, etc... and then reinstallation will save you a ton of money.

A 36 boat in the area that might hold it's value? This one:

1989 Swan Sail Boat For Sale -

Truly a great boat that would be wonderful to cruise on, do a Swiftsure, etc..but wouldn't be particularly competitive.

The other thought is to look for one-off boats. For example, if a particular boat, say 'Sweet Okole' down in SF ever came on the market (Farr 1 tonner, cold molded), it's in absolutely showroom condition and will most certainly go quickly if the asking price is anywhere within reason. Well maintained, great race history, etc... a boat that's an institution in and of itself. A Davidson 29 (2 built, one plug boat, one from the mold) is in this catagory as a great 'one' off.

About the Farr boats, what you're looking for in the US is anything built by Carroll Marine. They've had issues that are well documented. The trick is to find one that has had all their issues dealt with. In that same class of boats, the Frers 33 is a great design as well (blt by Carrol Marine). Again, it would be well worth the trouble to have blt2ski get you in contact with the owner of 'Kiwi Express'. If you ever want to see an Express 34, PM me. Apologies in advance if I've been doing any baby talking. It's just that every 5' LOA is a huge leap in cost, issues, liabilities, etc... A lot of folks don't include anything more than the purchase price in their thinking when going big.


Last edited by puddinlegs; 07-11-2010 at 04:19 PM.
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post #20 of 63 Old 07-11-2010
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I was going through this exact same drill, and did it extensively for a year. After test sailing the J boats mentioned, all of them, plus the Bene 36.7, plus a handful of others, we bought a C&C 110. Local PHRF here is competitive. My boat is now for sale due only to a change in family dynamics. You can see it currently on Yachtworld (Texas boat). Make me a reasonable offer and I'll pay to truck it up there. It is a great, great boat, and I have not regretted the decision one bit. Rock solid, fast, easy to handle. I have spent 4 days on it with 4 kids, and we were just fine. Also raced off-shore (coastal) and day sailed in the bay. PM me if you want details or more thoughts. One final comment about a J105 - I almost bought one; came very close. But I just couldn't get over spending that kind of money and not being able to even stand up in it.
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