Boat recommendations? (C&C 110, Tartan 37, Sabre 36-2)
I am looking for my next boat. I'm coming off of an old Ericson 23 that has taught me the value of standing head-room, but has been a great little boat for the past few years. I will be sailing primarily in the south Puget Sound, so I'm interested in good light air performance. The boat can draw all she wants, as deep water abounds here (compared to Florida anyway). I've become slightly addicted to the club race, so performance is a big motivator for me, but a quality, well thought-out build is far more important to me than a few seconds on the race course. I don't need blue-water construction as I won't be sailing to HI, but I might do a little coastal cruising. I'd also like to find a boat with a decent following that would retain a good resale value. I like classic lines, but find that they are unfortunately usually inversely proportional to performance. I'd like to stay under 120K and I'd rather have an older great boat than a newer boat of lesser quality. I am not attracted to Catalinas, Hunters, Beneteaus, or Jenneaus.
The suspects I've rounded up include:
Tartan 37 (seems a bit slow)
Sabre 36 (not the 36-2, which is out of my price range)
Bristol 35.5 (too heavy?)
C&C 110 (exceeds the budget, but sure looks pretty and fast)
Express 37 (The one I checked out looked pretty tired and I suspect has some delamination issues)
J 35c (Hard to find one that isn't all beat up)
J/109 (hard to come by and pricey)
J/32, J/34 (seem too slow to warrant their spartan interiors)
I would appreciate any feedback on the above boats and welcome any suggestions for others.
Thank you in advance for your help.
classic lines with out the hit, performance, solid build, excellent resale value
Sabre 36...hands down, very few are beat up like the J's, you can even live on it while your next race is set.
Might be tougher to find on the left coast, but worth the look...
There's a Sabre 36 not too far from me. Its an '89, which is a bit older, but might hold its resale value better regardless of age. Is anyone aware of common problems or things to look out for? How does she do in light air?
Thank you for your continued assistance.
Your search parameters are not far from mine and I will follow your search closely.
I trust that I will be corrected if wrong, but I believe that the Tartan, Sabre and C&C all have cored hulls and decks. The PHRF numbers should be close for the Tartan and Sabre and both are a bit better than the C&C. All three will have balsa cored decks as well.
I believe that the decision among the three should be a function of the individual differences associate with the particular boat: owner, aux power, condition, history, etc.
I only know of one 110 local for sale, shusboomer. pretty red thing! You can find older fiberglass versions mostly mid to east coast in your price range, vs shusboomer being a carbon hull.
I do feel like you, the older Tartan 37 will be slower, as will a sabre as compared to the others.
As long as you can get or find a LARGE light wt drifter/reacher jib, you can sail here in puget sound, IF you have a mast head. Even with a frantional and a max 110 jib up, get a lightwt one, and you should move forward in races.
From a race standpoint, the Bristol, sabre tartan would not be on my lets for here in puget sound. You mentioned you do not like Jeanneau's. There are a few older Sunshines that fit in the size range you are talking about, that have a good race history. As are some Beneteau First series boats that may fit your range too. ALong with being nice interior, and still fairly fast, and have a decent SA/Disp for the area. Try to be above 22-1 for upwind sailing if you can.
Seems like you have some pretty dissimilar boats in your list. The Sabre, Tartan and Bristol are quite alike conceptually and different from the others. Perhaps a first step would be to zero in on your particular trade-off of quickness vs displacement. Each of these has obvious advantages and disadvantages and you have to decide what you want to do with the boat now and in the foreseeable future.
T37, J32, J34, Bristol 35.5, Sabre 36... one side of the coin of your choices if you're interested in teh cruising side of club racing. These boats are going to frustrate you in local phrf stuff unless you're doing NFS cruising stuff.
There's a J35c (you might be thinking of the J36's and J35's you've seen as being old and beat) down your way that is very well sailed with a rating of around 105 phrf. You'll have difficulty finding one, and when you do, you're looking at around $100,000. Very nice if you can find/afford one. Look up "Wild Flower"
J-109 (72-73? phrf), nice boat, like you say... $$$. They're around, just be patient.
Express 37 (72 phrf), there's one at Signature Yachts in Seattle. Looks basically nice, but will probably need some electronics, sails, etc... Could be good if you could get it for around 55-60k in it's current state. Personally, of the boats you've listed, if you can afford to campaign it, it's at the top of the list. Keep your eyes out for and Express 34 (99 phrf)as well. Only 16 or 17 built, but great boats and will be much cheaper to run than a 37. When good ones come on the market, they go quickly. These show up from time to time in the SF Bay Area brokerages.
C&C 110... nice, but probably a good deal of $$$. Honestly, I don't know much about them, but never consider the C&C 99,110,115 as competitive with similiarly rated boats (Expresses, J's).. nice boats though.
Other's to consider? There are a lot of J-35's (72 phrf) around. Some are great, some are beat. If you find a good one, it will still cost you less than an equivalent Express 34 or 37. One of the last two built was sold in Seattle a couple of years back. Had a few issues, but was generally in beautiful shape and had a great sail inventory.
J-33. (93 phrf) Again, depends on the boat. A nice one just went up to Vancouver BC from Traverse City Michigan. Probably was well worth the 5-6k to truck it out.
Sail Northwest or Sailboats at Shilshole, can't remember which, has a Wylie 34 on the market. The owner's taken care of many/most of the major issues. It sails pretty well to it's rating (128?)
.. and there's an Olson 34 in Seattle for sail. Looks like it needs some love, but rates the same as the Express 34.
... Smaller, but really nice if you can find one, is the Olson 911s. (The 911se, built by Erickson, not Olson, is a little heavier) but puts you in the 130-115 or so rating band that's a great group of boats in the central sound. The 911s goes great in light air, and has a very nice interior for weekend or longer local cruising. Not too many available, but worth the wait and even the cost to truck the right boat in. Usually around $30-38k which will give you a lot left in the kitty for racing.
As long as you're thinking about an Express 37, why not an Olson 40? Great boats, a little hard to keep going in the really light stuff, but well built and capable of doing whatever ocean adventures you can think of. There's one on the market in SF that sounds nice.
There are a couple of Farr 1020's down in CA that are great boats! I think they rate about 112? and would be on my shortlist for this area as well:
1986 Farr 1020 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
Looks like a nice inventory. There's a well sailed one in Seattle. Contact the owner and ask him a load of questions.... hmmmm. for the right price, it might be at the top of my list for what you're looking for. Nice racer/cruiser, manageable expenses, the whole deal.
(no, I have nothing to do with the brokerage or the listing, just think it's a cool ride!)
NW west boats that have been in the area for awhile generally have very well known histories (both race and maintenance) that aren't too hard to trace with a few phone calls. Sometimes up here, patience can be handsomely rewarded, so don't be in a rush. Look up and down the west coast, and again, don't forget what it costs to actually race your boat. Sails for something like an Express 37 will be much more than a 32 or 34 anything.... You've got a lot of very different boats in your wish list, so it's hard to tell what you really want, but shopping is always fun! Resale value? J109, Express 37, Express 34, Olson 911s, Farr 1020. Cheers!
Is the F1020 Kiwi Express? if so, he is in my local YC/marina, and have info on how to get a hold of him. A very nice boat, Rates a 114 with a 6865 code sails etc. They use a masthead chute that is HUGE! Helps a lot for the down wind runs around here! I would put that one on a short list also.
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