Unsolicited offer - Starwind 27

mmazour · #1 (**permalink**) 07-23-2010

I have been looking at a Starwind 27 sailboat that is in the yard at my local marina. I am unsure of the year but it has the the amenities/wishlist I am looking for: 27 ft, pedestal steering, diesel inboard 10hp Westerbeke, roller furling, anchor locker, head, 2-3 6+ foot berths, T-shaped cockpit, folding prop and cradle.
I have pored over the exterior and cockpit of this boat in person and digitally (I have taken 50 photos and three videos). Because the companionway hatch was unlocked I took the liberty of sticking my camera inside and shooting some photos and video of that as well. I have exhausted every google search result referencing Starwind 27. Bottom line I really like this boat and would like to make an unsolicited offer to buy it (read rescue her)
This boat has been , according to the yard owner/operator, sitting for 3 years ignored, borderline negelected. By negelected I mean there is evidence of 3-6 inches of standing water in the cabin and the cockpit at one time and currently 1-2 inches in the bilge, the sails are still on the boom and roller furling, the main sail cover is half on/off. In the photos and videos I took of the interior it looks as thought there is a serious mold issue.

I feel comforatble with dealing with this after reviewing RythmDoctor's thread:
"http://www.sailnet.com/forums/boat-r...tml#post548473
In doing my homework it looks like this make and model goes for a range of prices of $5000 - $14250 on SalingTexas.com and two currently listed on Yachtworld for $9900 and $11900.
But we are talking about all new cushions and covers along with a heck of a lot of elbow grease. Possibly some new wiring in the bilge. I guess what I am thinking is $6500 as is where pending test sail. Thoughts?
I am unsure how to open when I do finally contact the owner, who, for whatever it is worth, is living in Mexico. How do tell a guy you like his boat and want to buy it but then turn around and tell him she's in bad shape and lowball him?

kd3pc · #2 (**permalink**) 07-23-2010

Some nerve...

UNLESS you have the owners permission, or his permission from the marina owner...you are simply trespassing and in some parts of this state you could be prosecuted, or worse. Whether it was unlocked or not is immaterial, IT AIN'T YOUR BOAT OR THE MARINA'S.

JEESH! What is this world coming to..

Then to want to "lowball" him ....

why not just steal the boat, repaint it and head to Mexico....

like a lot of this country, "someone" is not using it, you have a higher desire, it could be mine, he doesn't care, etc are all just rationalizing...

just because it "has the the amenities/wishlist I am looking for" does not give you ANY right to board her or take pictures of the now broken in to interior...did you help yourself to the deck gear?

YOU should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

SJ34 · #3 (**permalink**) 07-23-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by mmazour

I have pored over the exterior and cockpit of this boat in person and digitally (I have taken 50 photos and three videos). Because the companionway hatch was unlocked I took the liberty of sticking my camera inside and shooting some photos and video of that as well.

I am unsure how to open when I do finally contact the owner, who, for whatever it is worth, is living in Mexico. How do tell a guy you like his boat and want to buy it but then turn around and tell him she's in bad shape and lowball him?

Well, I sure wouldn't tell him you trespassed on his boat.

BTW, is your avatar of your c27 dreamboat or is it your boat? In a bygone era it was considered bad form to stare too long at anothers boat in passing. I think you have stretched etiquette beyond the breaking point here.

jcalvinmarks · #4 (**permalink**) 07-23-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by kd3pc

Some nerve...

UNLESS you have the owners permission, or his permission from the marina owner...you are simply trespassing and in some parts of this state you could be prosecuted, or worse. Whether it was unlocked or not is immaterial, IT AIN'T YOUR BOAT OR THE MARINA'S.

JEESH! What is this world coming to..

Then to want to "lowball" him ....

why not just steal the boat, repaint it and head to Mexico....

like a lot of this country, "someone" is not using it, you have a higher desire, it could be mine, he doesn't care, etc are all just rationalizing...

just because it "has the the amenities/wishlist I am looking for" does not give you ANY right to board her or take pictures of the now broken in to interior...did you help yourself to the deck gear?

YOU should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

I'll agree that boarding a boat that doesn't belong to him is in poor form and is technically trespassing, but let's be a little realistic. Prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law? Should be be clapped in irons and thrown in the hole? Maybe press-ganged into naval service? I think a slap on the wrist and a stern admonishment is enough. Punishment fitting the crime and all that, he didn't go on there to steal anything. He didn't have any sort of criminal intent to do harm or steal anything, aside from he knew or should have known that it was private property and he didn't have the owner's permission.

And anyway, he's not asking anyone to give him a boat just because the owner isn't using it. He's talking about buying a boat that someone isn't using, and at what seems to be at least a reasonably fair price.

To the OP: Bad! Don't do that!

Seriously, though, I would keep it real quiet that you boarded this guy's boat when you make him an offer. And if the yard operator was in on it, I'd ask him to do the same.

To the point of form in actually making the offer, I would just ask the guy if he would be interested in entertaining offers on his boat, then go from there. Don't even bring up price until you know there's a conversation to be had. If he doesn't want to sell it at all, then you're just going to make him mad from step one by "lowballing" him; maybe mad enough to clap you in irons for trespassing.

kd3pc · #5 (**permalink**) 07-23-2010

Sorry JC, we disagree...I can't condone or excuse this no way, no shape, no form

let's swap in house, car or airplane....

just because it is sitting in a condition that the OP finds "borderline neglected" does not give him the right to board or enter...on land this would be a B&E, as it should be on the water.

To rationalize that behavior is insane

How do we know that the OP went there with good intent, when by his own admission he has taken "50 photos and 3 videos"??

Sorry, I don't see it and stand by my original post, this was breaking the law pure and simple...and he is old enough to know that. He CHOSE to go aboard without permission, and open the other man's boat...piracy, B&E, trespassing...

mmazour · #6 (**permalink**) 07-23-2010

Permission was granted by operator knowing that owner would not mind.

Yes the red boat in the avatar was mine.

jcalvinmarks · #7 (**permalink**) 07-23-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by kd3pc

Sorry JC, we disagree...I can't condone or excuse this no way, no shape, no form

let's swap in house, car or airplane....

just because it is sitting in a condition that the OP finds "borderline neglected" does not give him the right to board or enter...on land this would be a B&E, as it should be on the water.

To rationalize that behavior is insane

How do we know that the OP went there with good intent, when by his own admission he has taken "50 photos and 3 videos"??

Sorry, I don't see it and stand by my original post, this was breaking the law pure and simple...and he is old enough to know that. He CHOSE to go aboard without permission, and open the other man's boat...piracy, B&E, trespassing...

I'm not disagreeing that it was wrong, and he shouldn't have done it. And on principal, I'm on your side.

And although it stings one's sense of decency and morality to say "no harm, no foul" in a case like this, I just find it a little tough to get to the point of being ready to round up a posse over something as relatively minor as climbing aboard an unused boat to take some pictures. Opening the hatch, by the way, definitely crosses a line, and that's bad bad bad.

If you want to draw a parallel with a house, this is like going into the yard of a house that seems unloved and taking some pictures thinking of making the owner an offer. It happens all the time. Yes, it's technically trespassing, but if you're just wandering through the yard, or even around the patio, no harm, no foul. It looks suspicious, so you have to be careful with something like that. And we're in complete agreement that opening the door/hatch is a big no-no in this case. But just the going there to take pictures ...

I'm just saying, if you want to talk about prosecution, from a utilitarian standpoint the courts have bigger things to worry about. I will say, however, that the more I think about this situation, the more wrong it seems. I'm just advocating a little moderation.

jcalvinmarks · #8 (**permalink**) 07-23-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by mmazour

Permission was granted by operator knowing that owner would not mind.

That makes it a little better. Still, I would not have opened the cabin.

mmazour · #9 (**permalink**) 07-23-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcalvinmarks

That makes it a little better. Still, I would not have opened the cabin.

Noted, temporary lapse of better judgement.

jcalvinmarks · #10 (**permalink**) 07-23-2010

And to the point of pricing, with the economy the way it is, as long as your offer has the correct number of digits in it, there's really no such thing as a "lowball" offer ...

... provided he's interested in selling. That's why I suggested not even broaching price until you know there's something to talk about. But if he's open to selling it, he has to know that he'd be selling into a complete buyer's market. And in that situation, you really have no right to be insulted by any halfway reasonable offer on a luxury good like a boat.