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  #1  
Old 08-08-2010
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Corsair F-24

Unlike most sailboat owners, I am having a case of "reverse" 10foot-itis - I am downsizing

On my radar specifically are small folding and trailerable trimarans, of which by specs I like both F-24 and F-28 by Farrier/Corsair. I don't much care for the "center cockpit" and outboard well system of F-27. F-28 seems to be on the expensive side. So, I am concentrating my research on F-24.

It seems that there are no discussions on those boats here (at least search brings nothing for me). So, if anyone knows anything about these - I would very much welcome your opinion, advice and information!
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  #2  
Old 08-08-2010
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What did you want to know??

BTW, the current Corsair trimarans can not be called F-boats, since Ian Farrier no longer allows Corsair the use of his name since they parted ways about 10 years ago.

The Corsairs are really fun boats, but they tend to be very wet boats for the most part. They're quite fast as well. Sailing in the teens is not unusual for them. However, they're typically fairly spartan in terms of how they're fitted out—camping stove, porta-pottie, rather than a full galley and marine head—since they're mostly designed and used as racing boats. Both the Corsair 24 and the Corsair 28 are raced as One Designs IIRC.

Another boat you might consider is the Telstar 28. Unlike the Corsair 24 and 28, it has standing headroom of 6' through much of the cabin. While the Corsair 24/28s are specifically designed for racing, the Telstar 28 is designed for cruising.

A third choice is the Quorning Dragonfly, but they are very expensive compared to the Telstar and Corsairs. Quorning just released a new Dragonfly 28, which is available in two editions—the touring and the racing versions.

Some of the Corsairs have a rotating wing mast, others use a fixed spar. Also, most of the Corsairs have running backstays, but no real backstay.

Be aware that the Corsairs can not be kept in the water with the amas folded. The Farrier-designed folding system requires the amas tip down and inward as the akas (crossbeams) tip outward. This means the topsides of the amas end up in the water and the topsides will get growth on them. This means you can't keep the boat in a single slip. Most Corsairs are kept either on lifts or on a mooring.

The folding systems of the Dragonfly and Telstar allow the boat to stay in the water with the amas folded. However, the Dragonfly's Swing Wing system extends the length of the boat about 3-5' depending on the boat, and makes it more expensive to keep in a slip.

The Corsair 24 has been replaced by the Corsair Sprint 750 (7.5 meters). I believe this happened last year or the year before. Also, Corsair moved their production offshore to Vietnam a few years ago, and there have been some quality control issues with the boats built in Vietnam as I understand it.

The Corsairs are designed to sail with one ama airborne and tend to be a bit less stable at anchor than the Telstar, which is designed to sail normally with all three hulls in the water. I'm not sure about the Dragonfly 28, as I've not sailed on one yet.

The Dragonfly and Telstar are centerboard boats, where the Corsairs are daggerboard boats. The advantage of a centerboard is that they kick up if you hit something, daggerboards don't. The daggerboard trunk and daggerboards are susceptible to severe damage if the boat is going fast in a collision.

BTW, Tony Smith (the designer and builder of the Telstar 28) is taking a sabbatical and the Telstar 28 production is currently halted. He is in the process of building a custom Telstar 28 and taking it up to Alaska and sailing down the West Coast of North America.
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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
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—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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Last edited by sailingdog; 08-08-2010 at 06:39 PM.
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Old 08-08-2010
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I sailed on a Corsair 28 earlier this summer. Definitely a screamer. I think there's a video of it in the BFS thread.

However, multis are not for me. I like a challenge.

You ought to look at a Weta too. Small boat - but crazy fast.
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Old 08-08-2010
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I am well aware of the current Corsair vs. Farrier issue I just used the name as a shortcut and to cover most ground. Since I am not looking for anything newer than 1998 anyway, it's a bit of a moot point in my case (but certainly important to newer boat buyers).

For one thing, that particular issue with "can't be stored with floats folded" is one thing I'd like some confirmation on, for example. I have seen in another location (a web page dedicated to these boats, but of unknown fidelity ) that they can be stored like that - there was some discussion as to the water marks that would be left on sides of floats and how to deal with that.

To me that's a "make it or break it" issue - absolutely can't store the boat fully unfolded (might get away with half-unfolded, I guess), so I would like perhaps a current owner to speak to it.

Other than that - just general info, again preferably from current owners on things to look for, potential problems to be aware of when looking at used boats etc.
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  #5  
Old 08-08-2010
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A couple of known issues on the Corsairs, that I found out about when researching what boat to buy.

1) The masts can be dropped by accident fairly easily, especially on the C28 and C31. Two of the five C31s and one of the C28s I had been looking at had been repaired for having the mast dropped. The mast raising on these boats is done using the trailer winch, and requires the boat to be on the trailer. This is usually not an issue on the Corsair 24, since it is a smaller boat and has a lighter, smaller, easier to manage mast.

2) The daggerboard trunks are prone to damage in cases of hard groundings. The daggerboards can also start to split in cases of a hard grounding.

3) The ama attachment points on the main hull can develop leaks and may need to be reinforced/repaired on some boats.

4) On the older Corsair 28s there was an issue regarding the wiring going to the mast IIRC, which was fixed in later models.

5) The rudder design has changed on the boats IIRC. Older models used a vertical lifting cassette rudder design, the newer ones use a kick-up rudder design, which is far less prone to being damaged in a grounding. IIRC, the kickup rudder can be retrofitted to older boats, but I'm not 100% on this. Corrosion with the aluminum cassette was also a problem.

6) Rudder delamination was an issue with the stock rudders on the older Corsair 24s.

7) Another problem with them is rudder ventilation, and many boats were retrofitted with a rudder fence to prevent this issue from occurring. If a Corsair 24 is sailed in high winds and does not have a rudder fence installed, the boat could easily lose steerage if the rudder ventilates. Please note, this is not an issue on the Telstar, since the rudder is under the hull of the boat and acts as a spade rudder until it is kicked up. The Corsair rudders are aft of the transom.

8) The original gudgeons for the rudder on the Corsair 24s were pretty weak and are difficult to find replacements for. AFAIK, even Corsair stopped carrying them.
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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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  #6  
Old 08-08-2010
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SD, thanks - this is very useful info. I can see you are somewhat partial to Telstar

I like the way Telstar is laid out and designed, but there are only 2 listed for sale now (may be 3) and prices are well above my current boat budget.

I researched some more, and what I am finding suggests that Corsairs can be physically stored with floats (sorry, amas ) folded. The issue is, evidently, that since sides of amas are in the water, they could get marine growth on them if stored that way for a long time. To me seems like a non-issue - I'd just use bottom-paint on them (probably hard paint, the kind they use on trailerable powerboats, and may be white to make it less obvious) and power wash occasionally. Perhaps I'll find out otherwise if I buy one of these

My current requirements for a boat are:
1) very shoal draft
2) small enough to be relatively easy to maintain
3) big enough to install all my instruments and testing gear (and a laptop) - I test my software on board. Also big enough to carry an occasional scuba tank to a reef and let me take a loo break in privacy

Corsair 27 is still on my list, though I don't like the "center cockpit" - that rear cabin seems poorly thought out. Do you know if Corsair 27 can be steered by the outboard motor? I.e. is the outboard reachable inside that trunk compartment?
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Old 08-08-2010
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While it may seem like I'm partial to the Telstar, I'm actually partial to intelligent designs... There are a few things on the Telstar that drive me nuts.... but that's for another post.

IMHO, you'd have to go with a ablative paint if you wanted to put an antifouling on the topsides of the amas, since they're out of the water a large percentage of the time. If you went with a hard epoxy paint, it would quickly be deactivated as it would be exposed to air for too great a period of time.

I haven't been on a Corsair 27 in a really long time, and don't remember if the outboard was steerable. I don't believe it is on any of the others, so I'd be surprised if it was on the Corsair 27. Having a steerable outboard when under power is really nice... and the Telstar does... Again, not biased, just stating the facts—just cause the facts favor the Telstar isn't my fault.

I've never been a big fan of the aft cabin design on the Corsairs... to get into it—you either have to crawl through a tunnel or climb in directly from the cockpit. In bad weather, opening the hatch to get into the aft cabin doesn't make much sense, but then again, neither does crawling under the cockpit.

I'd point out that most of the sport trimarans like the Telstars, Corsairs, Dragonflies, Contours, etc., tend to hold value fairly well. Some other boats that might be of interest to you are the Telstar 26/8M, which was Tony Smith's original trimaran design and folded as well, and the Contour series of trimarans. I'm not familiar with the Contours, but IIRC, they folded as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brak View Post
SD, thanks - this is very useful info. I can see you are somewhat partial to Telstar

I like the way Telstar is laid out and designed, but there are only 2 listed for sale now (may be 3) and prices are well above my current boat budget.

I researched some more, and what I am finding suggests that Corsairs can be physically stored with floats (sorry, amas ) folded. The issue is, evidently, that since sides of amas are in the water, they could get marine growth on them if stored that way for a long time. To me seems like a non-issue - I'd just use bottom-paint on them (probably hard paint, the kind they use on trailerable powerboats, and may be white to make it less obvious) and power wash occasionally. Perhaps I'll find out otherwise if I buy one of these

My current requirements for a boat are:
1) very shoal draft
2) small enough to be relatively easy to maintain
3) big enough to install all my instruments and testing gear (and a laptop) - I test my software on board. Also big enough to carry an occasional scuba tank to a reef and let me take a loo break in privacy

Corsair 27 is still on my list, though I don't like the "center cockpit" - that rear cabin seems poorly thought out. Do you know if Corsair 27 can be steered by the outboard motor? I.e. is the outboard reachable inside that trunk compartment?
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Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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  #8  
Old 08-08-2010
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SD,

Since the issue is folding while stored at a dock, older Telstar 26 won't do - I think it was very marginally "foldable", certainly not in the water.

I know on F-31 the outboard is actually steerable - I saw one just recently. It sits on a transom bracket and handle is reachable. It isn't anything you'd use while really underway, but it helps when navigating in confined space.

From the general looks of it, F-24 and F-28 have outboard on a transom bracket too so I'd guess it is steerable. F-27 has outboard in a very strange contraption whose purpose I don't quite get and it worries me. I haven't actually seen F-27 in person - perhaps I should

As far as paint goes, I meant the kind of paint that is used on trailerable powerboats - they also spend a lot of time outside. I think hard ablative is what they use and Vivid has very nice looking hard ablatives, including white paint. If I can solve an issue with a gallon of (expensive) paint - I'd be happy.

I'll keep looking for other models that fit the requirements and my budget - thanks for your suggestions.
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Old 08-08-2010
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Brak,

What is the budget? Or, in other words, what are these boats generally going for nowadays?

If the only issue is the amas getting fouled when the akas are folded, would you consider mooring the tri instead?

We once "stood by" while waiting for the Coast Guard to arrive at a flipped Corsair 24. That was in the middle of the night during the Governor's Cup race on Ches Bay, down in the vicinity of the LNG facility.. It was a screamer that night and they ended up pitch-poling.
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Old 08-09-2010
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Brak—

While you might be able to reach back and steer the outboard on a Corsair, it isn't generally recommended and difficult to do in heavy weather. The outboard on the Telstar has a linkage to the tiller that is engaged by slipping a pin into the tiller stock. This allows the TILLER to steer both the rudder and outboard. IMHO, what the Corsairs have is not really a steerable outboard. Most Corsair owners I know have the outboard locked in the centerline position.

As for the Telstar 26, I would agree, that if you need to fold it in the water, it will probably be an issue. I don't remember the specifics of the Contour's folding system, but I don't believe it would work for you, given your specific requirements.

Have you looked at the Compac series of sailboats. Some of their boats have fairly shallow drafts and the prices are far more reasonable than most of the multihulls. Specifically, the Compac Eclipse comes to mind, which has a board up draft of 1.5', only a couple inches deeper than the Telstar or Corsairs. At 21' LOA, it is big enough to have the room you need and the facilities you need.
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Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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Last edited by sailingdog; 08-09-2010 at 05:20 AM.
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