Rusty Keel Bolts - How bad is it? - SailNet Community
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 22 Old 08-12-2010 Thread Starter
Member
 
Fodder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ontario
Posts: 33
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
Rusty Keel Bolts - How bad is it?

Hi All,

I'm in the process of looking for my next boat and I've found a very nice 1985 Beneteau First 345. It's in great condition and I've gone over what I can using Sailing Dog's checklist and it has passed with flying colors so far. My only concern are the keel bolts. They are pretty rusty compared to my current boat and I'm wondering how big a deal this is and if it's a simple fix? I don't have a marine yard nearby so would attempt the fix myself first, if the consensus is it's possible. John Kretchmer's 'Used Boat Notebook' identifies this issue in this vintage of the First 345 and is fairly dismissive, but I was hoping for a broader view. I've done some research about keel bolts in general and Beneteau's keep coming up as examples of boats that are prone to this. Any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated. Is this a deal-breaker kind of issue or a negotiating point?

Thank you




Always approach the dock at the speed you wish to hit it.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Fodder is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 22 Old 08-12-2010 Thread Starter
Member
 
Fodder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ontario
Posts: 33
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
OK, I'm an idiot. I didn't search long enough on this site for answers. Carry on...

Always approach the dock at the speed you wish to hit it.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Fodder is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #3 of 22 Old 08-12-2010
Telstar 28
 
sailingdog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,290
Thanks: 0
Thanked 14 Times in 12 Posts
Rep Power: 14
         
I would highly recommend, if you buy this boat, that you DROP THE KEEL and inspect the keel bolts properly. Keel bolts can be deceptive in appearance, since crevice corrosion can lead to what looks like a good bolt, being actually quite weak. As an example of what I'm talking about, here is a photo by Maine Sail of a crevice corroded keel bolt.


Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
sailingdog is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #4 of 22 Old 08-12-2010
Old as Dirt!
 
svHyLyte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Tampa Bay Area
Posts: 2,918
Thanks: 15
Thanked 128 Times in 121 Posts
Rep Power: 7
 
The keel bolts on a Beneteau First screw into the keel. While the heads may appear wasted, given the snaps you have posted, they are not unusual for the yacht's age. A couple of wacks with a maul on the top of the bolts to dislodge the larger rust and little work with a wire brush chucked into your drill will clean them up well enough for you to loosen and pull the bolts. That can be done one-bolt-at-a-time in the water, the process recommended by Beneteau, or, shoreside during a haul-out if you're the nervous type. If you will PM me with your email address I will forward copies of Beneteau's procedures for replacing the bolts. Once the new bolts are in place, they should be thoroughly coated with a moisture barrier as described in their literature but it's not a big deal. You'll do fine.

FWIW...


s/v HyLyte

"It is not so much for its beauty that the sea makes a claim upon men's hearts, as for that subtle something, that quality of air, that emanation from the waves, that so wonderfully renews a weary spirit."
svHyLyte is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #5 of 22 Old 08-12-2010 Thread Starter
Member
 
Fodder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ontario
Posts: 33
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
Thanks for the advice Sailingdog and svHyLyte. I read through Don Casey's sticky on keel bolts as well and it, along with your responses have reassured me. BTW, Sailingdog, thanks again for the Boat Inspection Trip Tips, I actually had them up on my laptop that I brought with me to the boat. The owner was impressed I was being so thorough and was proud of his boat.

Always approach the dock at the speed you wish to hit it.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Fodder is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #6 of 22 Old 08-12-2010
Telstar 28
 
sailingdog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,290
Thanks: 0
Thanked 14 Times in 12 Posts
Rep Power: 14
         
Good to hear Fodder, and glad to help.

Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
sailingdog is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #7 of 22 Old 10-05-2010
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 4
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
These keel bolts are very bad and the boat is in danger of capsizing when the keel falls off. There are several ways of repairing the keel bolts. The first is to take the keel of and melt out the old keel bolt and weld the lead around a new keel bolts. This is kind of expensive but about 300 per bolt.
The way my company does it is to drill and tap in new keel bolts. This cost about 300 per bolt and does not require the keel to be taken off. This way if done by a company called Keel bolt Inspection and Repair can be done on most keels.
If you can't afford to have it done then you can pocket in the bolts your self. Use 316 Stainless steel all thread material and drill down into the lead with 1/2 " drills and work your way up to the bolt dia



Last edited by Jeff_H; 10-05-2010 at 08:31 AM. Reason: Commercial Link removed
Don Huseman is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #8 of 22 Old 10-05-2010
Senior Member
 
hellosailor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 11,318
Thanks: 4
Thanked 128 Times in 125 Posts
Rep Power: 11
   
Fodder, the bendytoy keelbolts are totally different from traditional keel bolts.

"Real" keel bolts are big J-bolts that are cast into the keel, made of stainless or (better) bronze. Most of the Benes don't use lead keels though, and they don't use J-bolts. They usually use cast iron keels, and because cast iron is stronger than lead, they don't use the long J-bolts. Instead they use short iron bolts (iron in the iron keel, makes sense) that may only be 4" long tapped into the iron keel.

Yes, this means they can easily rust. it also means--and this is an intentional design feature--that you should be able to UNBOLT each keel bolt, one at a time, and REPLACE IT, one at at time, with new keel bolts. Without dropping the keel, without any fuss. Just a big big wrench and some penetrating fluid needed.

I'm not sure I like the concept, or cast iron keels at all, but I can appreciate the logic behind it. You'll also find the folks at Beneteau USA are very fast to answer questions about these features, and that includes looking at pictures.

For a Beneteau? This is supposed to be (almost) routine maintenace, not a deal stopper.
hellosailor is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #9 of 22 Old 10-05-2010
Senior Member
 
davidpm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Madison
Posts: 3,893
Thanks: 218
Thanked 58 Times in 50 Posts
Rep Power: 8
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
Yes, this means they can easily rust. it also means--and this is an intentional design feature--that you should be able to UNBOLT each keel bolt, one at a time, and REPLACE IT, one at at time, with new keel bolts. Without dropping the keel, without any fuss. Just a big big wrench and some penetrating fluid needed.
So if someone left it go too long and you try to take them out and something twists off it sounds like a pretty big problem.
davidpm is online now  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #10 of 22 Old 11-15-2010
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Maui, HI
Posts: 93
Thanks: 3
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 6
 
Would like to know if you ended up buying the boat and do the work. i have the same issue and begin to think seriously about doing it.
thevdeub is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Keel modification Kwasiemoto General Discussion (sailing related) 13 01-22-2013 07:59 AM
Advice on glassing in wood keel spacer block bigwalt Gear & Maintenance 35 04-10-2011 07:21 PM
stuck keel beetoven General Discussion (sailing related) 12 09-29-2010 10:57 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome