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post #11 of 31 Old 08-14-2010
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It sounds like the original poster is planning on going offshore. In a good offshore boat major items of cabinetry are glassed to the hull. I doubt a cabinet shop could handle that - and I wouldn't want them to try. If it was just a coastal cruiser like a Catalina where almost all the woodwork is held in with screws I suppose it is possible. But remember, either way you will be either paying for their learning curve or getting a bad job - or both.

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post #12 of 31 Old 08-14-2010
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puddinglegs

Yes everything is ran to a clutch vs a cam cleat or equal. I personally found teh spinlocks I am using to be the better/best bang for the buck, and makes sure things stay locked in place. The only real issue I have, is the ones for the main and jib I use the most, seem to be starting to slip, so not sure if it is inside the mechanism, and need to get a recam kit and fix, or go to the next higher lb ability clutch for those high lb/strength needed items.

I mostly sail out of edmonds, will be at shilshoal for the styc fall/winter ragatta in Oct. Boat will probably sail in FWB, I'll be on RC as PRO.

Marty

She drives me boat,
I drives me dinghy!
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post #13 of 31 Old 08-14-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by surelyujest71 View Post
Here's an idea; I'm not sure exactly how well it might work out, but it's a thought. First, take lots of pictures of the interior. Measure the size of cabinets, countertops, etc. Then, go find a regular cabinetmaking shop that does work of high enough quality to meet your standards. Tell them what you want, and invite them to come into the boat to take measurements, etc. Perhaps you could get a better price on cabinetry/installation this way, and then just have a little work with headliners when they're done - and there are always plenty of places that do auto headliners who would like a little extra work.

I'm new to all this, myself - how's it sound to the rest of you?
When it comes to things like cabinets and countertops and cabin sole remember that where it fits up against the hull NOTHING is square. Also at the ends the fittings are angled to get them in.

Also your regular cabinet making shop will not be interested in the problem of schlepping everything in and out through the companionway. Most boats have the interior fitted before the deck goes on. For the larger components there is no way to get them in through the companionway.

Refitting a boat interior is INCREDIBLY labour intensive and a highly skilled job. It is just not cost effective on a low value boat to pay to have it done.

Doing it yourself OK but you will not get much of a return on our sweat equity.

Like every body else says find something that you can live with and go sailing.

Refinishing an interior yes rebuilding one NO.
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post #14 of 31 Old 08-14-2010
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I had thought a skilled cabinet shop could handle cutting to fit the curves of a boat...
The cabinet shop's ignorance of how to properly fiberglass the new cabinetry in place, however, seems to be an excellent reason to not use them.

So... why not just find a sailboat that you could be happy with, to start with? Here's a 41ft Morgan out island that looks pretty good, on e-bay: 41ft Morgan out island sail boat: eBay Motors (item 130420389061 end time Aug-22-10 16:20:09 PDT)
interior work is almost finished... looks like just some simple, basic things to finish off the stern cabin. I know the boats are poorly designed for racing, but for living on the sea? Wish I had the cash to put in a bid.
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post #15 of 31 Old 08-15-2010 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by surelyujest71 View Post
Here's an idea; I'm not sure exactly how well it might work out, but it's a thought. First, take lots of pictures of the interior. Measure the size of cabinets, countertops, etc. Then, go find a regular cabinetmaking shop that does work of high enough quality to meet your standards. Tell them what you want, and invite them to come into the boat to take measurements, etc. Perhaps you could get a better price on cabinetry/installation this way, and then just have a little work with headliners when they're done - and there are always plenty of places that do auto headliners who would like a little extra work.

I'm new to all this, myself - how's it sound to the rest of you?
Interesting Idea and something I might explore - my neighbors is a supervisor at a custom cabinetry place... but they only do homes.

Another avenue I have been exploring is relaminating the cabinets instead of replacing the interior outright. This looks completely do-able without costing a bundle. It would allow me to get the updated looks that my wife wants without blowing our kitty.

Also, as far as cushions... I found a place online that does custom cushion work cheaply:

Foam Mattress, Foam Cushions, Foam Rubber, Sofa Cushions, Replacement Cushions

I am not too concerned about the headliners. While looks are fairly important to me I believe that accessibility will prove more important in an older boat. So, with that said, while I might be handy enough to pull off wood strips of bamboo, I think that my inclination to sand and paint the cabin top white and be done with it.
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post #16 of 31 Old 08-15-2010 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mitiempo View Post
It sounds like the original poster is planning on going offshore. In a good offshore boat major items of cabinetry are glassed to the hull. I doubt a cabinet shop could handle that - and I wouldn't want them to try. If it was just a coastal cruiser like a Catalina where almost all the woodwork is held in with screws I suppose it is possible. But remember, either way you will be either paying for their learning curve or getting a bad job - or both.
Wow - very good point. I "knew that" but forgot that important tidbit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by surelyujest71 View Post
So... why not just find a sailboat that you could be happy with, to start with? Here's a 41ft Morgan out island that looks pretty good, on e-bay: 41ft Morgan out island sail boat: eBay Motors (item 130420389061 end time Aug-22-10 16:20:09 PDT)
interior work is almost finished... looks like just some simple, basic things to finish off the stern cabin. I know the boats are poorly designed for racing, but for living on the sea? Wish I had the cash to put in a bid.
Yep - we are looking at all options. I needed to know what kind of cash we were talking about if we found a boat that was appealing and practical but dated. Practically speaking, I want to do as little work as possible refitting the boat when we pull the trigger - outside of repairing what one would normally expect to be wrong with a boat.

Obviously the survey will tell us a lot about what should need repair or replacement. If I have any money left over after burning through my original set-aside of 10K then we will start looking in the direction of refitting the interior.

Last edited by zboss; 08-15-2010 at 07:08 AM.
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post #17 of 31 Old 08-15-2010
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I would certainly agree with the previous posters about learning to do as much on your boat as you can. Refitting it is an excellent opportunity to learn as much about your boat as you can...and knowing your boat intimately may save your life. In Alvah Simon's book, North To The Night, he writes about how he had to work on the alternator while essentially blind. If he hadn't built alternator bracket and installed the alternator himself, he likely might not have lived to write the book.

A head can be as complex or simple as you make it. IMHO, a good marine head will have a decent head unit, like a Raritan PHII or PHC, that is plumbed to a holding tank. Ideally, the pumpout side of the tank will allow you to pumpout via a deck fitting or via a manual diaphragm pump, for when you're out past the three mile limit. It will allow you to flush the head using either salt water or freshwater via the head sink.

Even with a Lavac, which is considerably more money than a Raritan PHII, you're looking at less than $1000 for hoses, head, hose clamps, etc IF YOU DO THE INSTALLATION YOURSELF. If you hire a yard to do the installation, expect to have to fix it and expect to pay well over $2000 for the installation alone, not counting the hardware and supplies. Also, many yards will only install gear you buy from/through them.

Given the price of a decent 35-40' sailboat and the condition older ones that are in your "budget" will be in, I'd say that $10,000 is a bit low for the refitting/upgrading/repairing budget. I'd also point out that if you can get a bit more money in the budget, you'll likely end up making out far better, since a boat in better condition usually sells for far less than restoring the same make/model to the same condition would cost you.

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Last edited by sailingdog; 08-15-2010 at 07:19 AM.
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post #18 of 31 Old 08-15-2010 Thread Starter
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Quote:
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I would certainly agree with the previous posters about learning to do as much on your boat as you can. Refitting it is an excellent opportunity to learn as much about your boat as you can...and knowing your boat intimately may save your life. In Alvah Simon's book, North To The Night, he writes about how he had to work on the alternator while essentially blind. If he hadn't built alternator bracket and installed the alternator himself, he likely might not have lived to write the book.

A head can be as complex or simple as you make it. IMHO, a good marine head will have a decent head unit, like a Raritan PHII or PHC, that is plumbed to a holding tank. Ideally, the pumpout side of the tank will allow you to pumpout via a deck fitting or via a manual diaphragm pump, for when you're out past the three mile limit. It will allow you to flush the head using either salt water or freshwater via the head sink.

Even with a Lavac, which is considerably more money than a Raritan PHII, you're looking at less than $1000 for hoses, head, hose clamps, etc IF YOU DO THE INSTALLATION YOURSELF. If you hire a yard to do the installation, expect to have to fix it and expect to pay well over $2000 for the installation alone, not counting the hardware and supplies. Also, many yards will only install gear you buy from/through them.

Given the price of a decent 35-40' sailboat and the condition older ones that are in your "budget" will be in, I'd say that $10,000 is a bit low for the refitting/upgrading/repairing budget. I'd also point out that if you can get a bit more money in the budget, you'll likely end up making out far better, since a boat in better condition usually sells for far less than restoring the same make/model to the same condition would cost you.
Saildog... do you think that 50K for purchase and 10K for refit is not a good ratio? Do you think that 30/20 or 60/0 would be better?

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post #19 of 31 Old 08-15-2010
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Zboss—

You're looking at buying a 35-40' bluewater capable boat. Outfitting a brand new boat, that doesn't need repairing or upgrading for a bluewater passage is not an inexpensive proposition, and doing so to an older boat that is probably in need of some serious maintenance is going to cost even more.

I know one person who outfitted her boat, an SC31, for bluewater passagemaking and the total for the upgrades, modifications and such was about $10,000 and her boat didn't have maintenance issues and probably needed less work to make it bluewater capable than most boats you'll be looking at because it had once been outfitted for bluewater passagemaking about 15 years earlier by her uncle.

You're looking to buy a larger boat, and that will probably have some maintenance issues. So, yes, I think that $10,000 is going to be a bit low.

BTW, I generally recommend holding aside 15-20% of the buying budget for a boat that is just going to be used daysailing, coastal cruising and weekending... and that generally requires far less of a refit than does bluewater passagemaking.

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Last edited by sailingdog; 08-15-2010 at 09:27 AM.
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post #20 of 31 Old 08-15-2010
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Ok, I'm in the middle of this so I think I have an valid opinion.....

ZBoss,

While you are in dream mode (I mean this in a good way), buy a copy of Don Casey's "Good Old Boat", second edition.

Use his excellent Planning Grid;

Priority; Immediate - Less urgent - Someday ........(along the top).

Type; Structure - Feature - Finish .........(down the side).

Give everything an estimated cost and pretty soon you will have some priorities. Fix the stuff that will get you killed, FIRST. On my last boat I remember hating the headliner, then I got an estimate to replace it and it suddenly became much more attractive.

My simple rule is to have 10% of the purchase price just to get your boat bottom painted, launched, moved to where you want it and deal with what blows up.

Gerry



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