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Are surveys necessary/recommended when getting a brand new boat?

3K views 23 replies 11 participants last post by  boatpoker 
#1 ·
Hello Everybody!

Some friends have suggested to survey when buying a brand new boat. Others say it is not important considering the warranty.

What should I do?

Thanks for your answers!

Gus
 
#2 ·
It might be a requirement for a loan. Having built a number of vessels for owners, we always got a survey. We wanted an independent evaluation of the vessel, even with a warranty. Should problems arise, the survey can go a long way in justifying the repairs out of their pocket.

I've seen final payment documents where signing off meant we accepted the vessel, warts and all, and significantly reduced our leverage when repairs were needed.

I'd also suggest getting the survey well before your sign the final papers. That way some of the problems can be corrected before final payment, warranty work can be scheduled in advance, and you have legal support should the warranty be less than acceptable. It's a small percentage of the overall price of the boat and you'll sleep a lot better.
 
#3 ·
Yes. If for no other reason than your insurance company will likely require one. Also, beyond that, a surveyor may catch problems that the broker and manufacturer didn't (or don't want to) catch.
 
#4 · (Edited)
Hello Everybody!

Some friends have suggested to survey when buying a brand new boat. Others say it is not important considering the warranty.

What should I do?

Thanks for your answers!

Gus
What they were referring to was for you to go get a psychiatric evaluation...:p :p ...The warranty inferred to buy your wifes friends was your life insurance policy.

Just Kidding....you hard working lucky dog you...:) :)

Whach-ya looking to buy Gus?...inquiring minds want to know...:D
 
#5 ·
Gus: I'm reading Lin and Larry Pardee on boat selection as we speak. Their experience is that it is a must do, since there is no telling if everything is as described in the brochure or during conversations with the broker. Not unlikely that this thing or that has been overlooked or even done poorly, they say. Could save many frustrating conversations or disagreements by knowing what is actually true before taking delivery even if you've already written the last check (which should always be held back until your surveyor has completed a thorough run through and let all concerned know what he learned). These are the Pardee's opinions, not my own, since I'm not allowed to have a new boat during this lifetime.

"The Cost Conscious Cruiser", page 58, item #5.

OS
And don't take any wooden through-hulls for Pete's sake.
 
#6 ·
SBS (and Gus)..new boat purchase does not require a survey by the insurance company...some insurance companies don't even require a survey or a complete survey, which BTW would steer me to a different insurer...

However, having purchased a NEW boat in 1999, I would strongly suggest one on any new boat you buy. I was constantly told during my new bot commissioning, "that is the way we do it"...having a survey and/or the surveyor around before they get final payment would make sure it was done right...

All the best...
 
#7 ·
I would not buy any boat without a survey- new or used. Things gets missed during production and in a best case scenario, you find the issue before it has the chance to cause a failure. Something as simple as not drilling pilot holes can cause big issues later.

Keep in mind that even the best surveyors can and will miss items.
Still, your best bet is to get another set of eyes on your boat. I would plan on being there during the survey if for no other reason than to allow you to go over your boat with a "fine tooth comb".

Buying a boat requires an awful lot of money. You want to be certain that you are going into it with as much information as possible.
 
#9 ·
In many ways surveys are more important on a new boat than a used boat. When a boat is in service, many issues that might come up on a survey will be glaring. For example, a delaminated deck will be large enough to feel or darkened wood might indicate a deck leak.

But on a new boat, the lack of use means that there will not be the kinds of teletale signs that might be indicators of bigger problems. B

ut also boats are built by humans; so hose clamps may be forgotten, wire insulators on battery terminals can be left off, drains may not properly hooked up and so on. Mostly little stuff, but perhaps big enough to strand you or cause other kinds of issues. Unless you personally are very knowledgable, a surveyor is your first line of defense.

Here is where it gets a little dicey. Ideally the survey should take place after all of the dealer installed items are aboard. The idea being, if the installer damages something, disconnects a critical component, or improperly installs something, then the surveyor should be able to catch it. The problem with that is that most manufacturers want you to 'accept' the boat before the dealer goes to work. The way around that is to have the right to survey before and after the installation allowing you to call in a surveyor if you sense that something is not right.

Jeff
 
#10 ·
I would say no in most cases. I have bought three new boats and never had a survey. It depends on the manufacturer and the dealer. With some manufacturers I would definitely want a survey having read about a successful lawsuit by a new boat purchaser (the builder still hasn't paid up!). There's another case with the same manufacturer where the mast wasn't in the center! But with a manufacturer who stands behind their warranty I would not bother. Just google the manufacturer and you will learn whether their warranty service is good or not.
 
#11 ·
Funny details. I just spoke with a surveyor, and he recommended NOT to do a survey in the new boat. He said that as much as he would like to get the business, it would be a waist of our money. He suggested that he could check the sea trials instead.

BTW, we are talking about a brand new Beneteau boat (obviously a production boat, not custom made).

What are your opinions about that?

Gus
 
#12 ·
Funny details. I just spoke with a surveyor, and he recommended NOT to do a survey in the new boat. He said that as much as he would like to get the business, it would be a waist of our money. He suggested that he could check the sea trials instead.

BTW, we are talking about a brand new Beneteau boat (obviously a production boat, not custom made).

What are your opinions about that?

Gus
I bought a new Beneteau from St. Barts in Charleston in 2004. No survey. St. Barts did an excellent job in the commissioning. Have had very good support from Beneteau and St. Barts. A lot depends on the dealer and how competent their staff is in the dealer installed options.
 
#14 · (Edited)
One of my problems is that when you buy a new production boat many of the options are installed by the dealer. There is a schedule of payments before delivery. In other words you have a substantial amount in the boat before taking possession. Instruments, auto-pilot, extra batteries, hi-output alternator, custom stem head fitting, wash down pump, dodger and bimini etc. (these are some of the options I had installed) What condition would you put in the offer to purchase? Sale subject to survey and sea trial? Will a dealer install all that stuff with this provision in the offer? I don't think so. Your best bet is a good builder (one that stands behind their product) and a really good dealer.
 
#15 ·
I bought a new Bene 36CC in 1999, wish I had done the survey...it would have added a credible third party, with credentials to my complaints...

some were builder...doors would not close, some were dealer...chartplotter doesn't work...all of which should have been fixed...but were not....a lot of finger pointing by builder and dealer.

If your surveyor does not want to do a survey on a new boat, he may be too close to the builder or dealer to be objective - a definite requirement in my book for a good surveyor.

I would find a new surveyor who works for "me" if I were you...one who is not worried about dealer/builder ties...


The cost, as Mimsy put it, is quite low compared to the leverage or piece of mind the results will give you....

All the best, Gus - feel free to PM if you want details. The dealer I bought from is no longer in business..
 
#16 ·
Vasco....

just who is good builder who will stand behind their products, any more?? The top tier builder you mention T/CC is NOT one who stands behind theirs? I am sure that many builders have issues, but it is how they and their dealers handle those issues...A quick search of the internet shows a lot of builders with structural issues...beyond the normal "build quality/consistency" issues.

I would add a clause to the purchase contract that withholds 10-20% final payment until both builder and his dealer have met the requirements of the commissioning checklist and sea trial..

Had a survey been done on my 36CC with a sea trial, we would all have discovered then that the roller furler jib was installed wrong, that the furling drum rub the well and that the furler lines were installed correctly and improperly led aft.

off center masts and delam hulls on a "NEW" boat are indicative of something more wrong....but we won't go there...here...
 
#18 ·
Vasco....

just who is good builder who will stand behind their products, any more?? The top tier builder you mention T/CC is NOT one who stands behind theirs? I am sure that many builders have issues, but it is how they and their dealers handle those issues...A quick search of the internet shows a lot of builders with structural issues...beyond the normal "build quality/consistency" issues.

..
kd3pc,

That was my point, you have to do your home work before you buy a boat. I did not mention any builders but if you do a bit of checking you should come to the conclusion that some builders do not treat their customers well. A surveyor will not help, even a court judgement will not help as they don't pay up. They simply morph into another corporation with the same boats. So paying a surveyor and all the lawyer's fees doesn't help.
 
#17 ·
kd3pc,

How would a surveyor have helped with getting the dealer to fix your problems? Most boats come from the factory with some minor defects. For example mine had some flaws in the gel-coat. The dealer repaired all the flaws. I think the dealer is compensated by the builder for these touch-ups. The dealer took photos of the defects. I assume they sent them to Beneteau. If you have a poor dealer it is very difficult to get satisfaction. That was my point about finding a good dealer. I know it's easier to buy from the local dealer but if that dealer has a poor reputation it's better to go a bit further afield. Some more examples, my wind Raymarine instrument did not work properly, the dealer replaced the unit and said he'd deal with Raymarine later. On my way south the ram-mike crapped out. The dealer sent me a new one and new wiring to the main vhf. Before you buy a boat check out the dealer!
 
#21 ·
Vasco and the group....

we definitely agree on the "scope out the dealer" as thoroughly as the builder...in my case they were the cause and fixer to be for most of my issues...problem was they did not want to fix anything, unless I paid more money...I had to bring them the B commissioning checklist...they had their own...

Dealers, sadly, can make or break a builder's reputation...and IMHO opinion they both should work together and harder on solving a customer's issues..

Too much finger pointing, when it would be more cost effective to just fix the thing as they did with your mike...

thanks
 
#22 ·
One of things to keep in mind is that the dealer won't prepare the boat for commissioning unless he has the deposit. I can keep part of it until I consider that the boat meets the specifications, but the big chunk of the deposit will be in the dealer hands.

In any case, I trust my dealer, I chose them because of their reputation. The reason to get a new boat is to have their support and the warranty from the builder... and that "new boat smell", of course. ;)
 
#23 ·
I would recommend getting one on a brand new boat. Look at the case of some of the recent C&C and Tartan boats, which were probably not surveyed prior to the brand new owner taking delivery. Some of the massive legal problems these owners have run into may have been avoided had they had the boats surveyed. Jeff H's point about the lack of use disguising some things is a very valid one.
 
#24 · (Edited)
I survey about 240 boats per year, mostly in the 32 - 45' range and of these two or three are new boats.

Most often the issues I find in new boats are non-compliance with ABYC Standards such as battery chargers mounted directly over batteries, improperly installed inverters, improperly vented gasoline engine compartments etc.

One well known manufacturer finds it almost impossible to produce void free laminates and the gelcoat over these voids probably won't crack and open up til' the warranty expires. On one well known powerboat I found 6' feet of the hull with no glass fiber on the bottom (honest ... removing the gelcoat exposed clear resin without fiber bonded to balsa core).

There are three trawlers currently on the market where the engine compartment intakes and blower outputs terminate in the cockpit.

Many French boats do not have ABYC compliant propane systems or electrical systems.

I have several other horror stories about new production boats. I especially like the suggestion that the boat be surveyed after the dealer has installed the non-factory options because this is where I find most of the problems. For example, a/c throughulls installed through balsa core and sealed with silicone.... inverters installed in gasoline engine compartments .... non ignition protected fuse systems installed in gasoline engine compartments

You pays your money and you takes your chances
 
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