A blue water sailer that can go in light winds - Page 53 - SailNet Community
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post #521 of 576 Old 04-25-2011
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Originally Posted by GeorgeB View Post
Hey, hey, it wasnít wine at Farallones, it was the Mai Taiís at the Pacific Cup dock! And I did come perilously close to buying a sailing dinghy when they said I could get one with a red hull, however. What Iím still trying to figure out what Ferrari has to do with sailing? Are they getting into sponsorship?
Damn... Missed out on that one... Guess I was too busy getting the pitch for synthetic rigging to notice the Mai Tai party

The Ferrari comparison was mine in reference to the racing boat industry marketing 'cruising' versions to fund their racing development programs; much the same way Ferrari for most of its existence was in the street car market to fund their racing programs.
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post #522 of 576 Old 04-25-2011
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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Okay, Keel, so you ARE tunnel-visioned on the N41. Cool...we got that out of the way.

Look - let's try a different tack. The reason no one in this thread can agree is that we're all talking about different things. To wit:

1. The OP asked for full-keel boats that go in light wind - with the presumed assumption that ONLY full-keel boats are REAL "blue water" cruisers.
-Simple answer...I assume...is...they don't exist. Full-keel boats are pigs in light air. Can we all agree on this?

- but this is where it got interesting...

2. Playing off this, the debate then shifted to the traditional "what is the REAL 'blue water cruiser'" angle...and older boats, that can go a little faster than full-keelers started coming into the mix (I think that's where the N41 made its debut). Now, even though the full-keeler crowd probably looks at the N41 as a horrible boat in "REAL" waves, you and KP extol its virtues as a TRUE "blue water" sailer that can blast through waves, yet, indeed, "go in light winds". So - here is yet another angle of the debate...taking the more "modern" designs like the N41 (when compared to full keelers from 1950, that is) and saying they're "better" - to the disapproving howls and cat-calls of the full-keelers.

3. Then comes PCP with the modern array of cruising boats that are WAY fatter and faster than any of the above. YET they are, indeed, "blue water" boats. Now, you and KP start with the disapproving howls and cat-calls, saying that no one, even the designers, even the market itself, knows what they're talking about. These boats are horrible in "REAL" waves. And the full-keelers chuckle.

4. Then comes the issue of how much time the typical cruiser is in such horrible conditions versus having a blast sailing really fast downwind. Do you want fast 99% of the time? Or do you want "comfortable" 1% of the time? (You guys dig that 1%...cool.)

5. Then come whacked-out cost comparisons of 30 year-old-boats to new, modern designs on the market, when the discussion was about the differences in design and capability between older and newer hulls (not cost). The classic dodge that gets us nowhere.

6. Then come the conspiracy theories of how the new boat marketers are duping the blind world of up-and-coming cruisers into going out and killing themselves because of too much canned corn in the non-existent bilge causing problems with stability while surfing toward Antigua under a kite at 22 knots.

So, see? We seem to be having a little trouble with focus in "setting the record straight" as it pertains to a "blue water sailer that can go in light winds".

None of this stuff is empirical. You just seem to think it is because it's your opinion.
Now, who would say that you could make an excellent resume of such a long thread. Funny too

Regards

Paulo
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post #523 of 576 Old 04-25-2011
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Oh - I forgot this one...

7. You can ONLY sail directly into the wind OR DDW regardless of where your destination is - because that's VMG. And every boat, regardless of hull design acheives pretty much the same speed when in irons. Hence, the Newport 41 is superior.


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post #524 of 576 Old 04-26-2011
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I'm not too sure but that sounds like a heavenly vessel if you ask me .
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post #525 of 576 Old 04-26-2011
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Originally Posted by michaelkent View Post
I'm not too sure but that sounds like a heavenly vessel if you ask me .
Mikey, baby, just check with HerSailnet...the only heavenly vessel around here is mine. Heh-heh.


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post #526 of 576 Old 04-27-2011
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I think a more accurate synopsis of the thread would be:

1. Some people think older design boats are all slow.

2. In order to be "cool" you must be willing to say that a surfboard with a 3' standing room cabin is a comfortable cruiser.

3. Smackdaddys real name is Smacktalker.

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post #527 of 576 Old 04-27-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GBurton View Post
I think a more accurate synopsis of the thread would be:

1. Some people think older design boats are all slow.
Or rather, some people realize that we have learned since the sixties and are happy to embrace the wonderful new boats that gives us. I love traditional vessels, including the old Colin Archer type boats, but laugh at the ridiculous interpretations in GRP - And we do have a lot of traditional vessels here in Scandinavia.

Quote:
2. In order to be "cool" you must be willing to say that a surfboard with a 3' standing room cabin is a comfortable cruiser.
And some cannot be ar*ed to read about the actual cruisers being discussed and/or believe that repeating BS will make it true.

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3. Smackdaddys real name is Smacktalker.
Well, You're on to something here - but 1 out of three is not good enough

Watch great footage about the story of one manís slow odyssey around the UK:
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post #528 of 576 Old 04-27-2011
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Originally Posted by JomsViking View Post
Or rather, some people realize that we have learned since the sixties and are happy to embrace the wonderful new boats that gives us. I love traditional vessels, including the old Colin Archer type boats, but laugh at the ridiculous interpretations in GRP - And we do have a lot of traditional vessels here in Scandinavia.


And some cannot be ar*ed to read about the actual cruisers being discussed and/or believe that repeating BS will make it true.


Well, You're on to something here - but 1 out of three is not good enough

Way to miss the point again JV I did read the whole thread BTW.
And the term "cruiser" here may be a tad um "interpretive", but each to his own.

At least we can agree on point 3
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post #529 of 576 Old 04-27-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GBurton View Post
I think a more accurate synopsis of the thread would be:

..
2. In order to be "cool" you must be willing to say that a surfboard with a 3' standing room cabin is a comfortable cruiser.
I am not small, almost 1.90m and I have standing room in the Elan 350 and in the Pogo 10.50. On many old 35ft I know that I don't have standing room.

Now, about those 0,94m standing room, I wonder what modern cruiser are you referring to?

Regards

Paulo
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post #530 of 576 Old 04-27-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GBurton View Post
Way to miss the point again JV I did read the whole thread BTW.
And the term "cruiser" here may be a tad um "interpretive", but each to his own.

At least we can agree on point 3
Nice strike back - Kinda proves my point.
And yes "Cruiser" might be open for interpretation but that is EXCATLY what some have tried to convey in this thread.
(If it's my English You're thrashing, it should be obvious that it is not my Native Tongue)

The irony of it all is that I own and cruise an older boat and have cruised wide and far in different types of vessels but realize that things have evolved, often - but not always - to the better, and most of the boats presented here (often by Paulo) would make WAAAAY better Blue-water cruisers than the "traditional longkeeled heavy and so on and so forth" boats of yesterday.
Colin Archer was ahead of his time, and I firmly believe that he would have built boats more similar to a Pogo if he had lived today.

I'd like for everyone to love their own boats and keep an open mind for new Blue Water Cruisers too - instead of just sticking to some old myths.

Hope that explains my somewhat tongue-in-cheek post above.

/Joms

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